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Yes they can, but do they have too? (or) Working up to their potential and asynchronicity, when... - Page 2

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXOLAX View Post
We've always followed our childrens' lead but now we are wondering if it is truly a passion if she is not initiating the learning. If she's not pushing herself, why should we?
When I wasn't remotely 'pushed' it felt to me as though I wasn't being encouraged at all. My mom would say, "Sure, go to the library and look it up," but that was all. I internalized the notion that it was just fine for me to coast. That's not a lesson that I particularly want my children to learn, so I intend to do things differently. This isn't to say that "I'm interested in math" will lead to math camps, cram schools, and textbooks out the yinyang but I will certainly encourage regular practice if there's a definite interest and/or talent.

(Just my opinion; YMMV. )
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
When I wasn't remotely 'pushed' it felt to me as though I wasn't being encouraged at all. My mom would say, "Sure, go to the library and look it up," but that was all. I internalized the notion that it was just fine for me to coast.
(Just my opinion; YMMV. )
That was me as well. I remember I always wanted the structure and challenge to be provided from the outside in order to excel. If there wasn't external challenge after all there was always reading. So if I was interested, it was easy to assimilate huge amounts of information on a subject, but in order to achieve mastery at something that you actually DO, I feel more direction can be beneficial.

You can always try it out - wouldn't your daughter just resist if she felt pushed beyond her comfort level?
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by water View Post
What she is lacking are the organizational skills and possibly the ability to see the benefit of a regular sustained application of her talents. I think this is too much to expect of an 8yo, even a gifted one, so I do think it's ok for you to be the organizer and the daily motivator.
This is where I was going. Is it a lack of organizational skills, a lack of drive, a lack of interest, or simply that she views school as the place to do traditional learning and doesn't want to do it at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
[color=Indigo]When I wasn't remotely 'pushed' it felt to me as though I wasn't being encouraged at all. My mom would say, "Sure, go to the library and look it up," but that was all. I internalized the notion that it was just fine for me to coast.
We're already dealing with 'coasting' issues at school so we would not want to do anything to counter the help we're trying to get her for that. You bring up a very valid point as she needs and rightly deserves the challenge but the impression she gives us is that she doesn't want it to come from home. She isn't asking us to teach her maths, she's complaining her school doesn't and she wants them too. If she were to come to me and say "I want to learn algebra" we'd sit down and do it, but she isn't asking, she's just complaining about a broken system. We're not sure if it's frustration with the system and she just wants a fix for that or if it's true interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post
You can always try it out - wouldn't your daughter just resist if she felt pushed beyond her comfort level?
The only way we will know the answer to our own questions as above will be to do a little pushing and see how she responds. If she resists we will work on another solution for her, like a tutor, while we deal with the school. We just don't want to push a specific subject on her if it's not something she's truly passionate about. We're going to try it out and see how it goes with her. I imagine her response will give us the answer.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
[color=Indigo]When I wasn't remotely 'pushed' it felt to me as though I wasn't being encouraged at all. ]
I felt like this - a lot. I would have appreciated more direction and more "pushiness" in *some* areas.

I read through the thread quickly, and I didn't see anyone mention anything about perfectionism and how it relates to being pushed. I have to tread very carefully with ds because if I even sound a bit pushy (which is really never my intent,) he has a tendency to back way off. When he's ready, he holds the bar far higher than I would. I've learned to make suggestions and then wait to see what happens.

My philosophy is sometimes you can't even lead a horse to water, but you can point in the general direction of the drinking hole.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXOLAX View Post



She isn't asking us to teach her maths, she's complaining her school doesn't and she wants them too. If she were to come to me and say "I want to learn algebra" we'd sit down and do it, but she isn't asking, she's just complaining about a broken system. We're not sure if it's frustration with the system and she just wants a fix for that or if it's true interest.

.
I hear you - and I feel for you.

My DS is HSed now (going into grade 8 in September, wow!), but he did go to school part time from 3-6.

There were issues at school and he did not, at the time, want to withdraw from school. He wanted me to fix them. The truth is I was unable to. I wish, I genuinely wish I could have "fixed" it for him - but I couldn't. The school did not see things the way my son and I saw things, and he did not want to transfer schools.

Anyhow, at some point in grade 6 I had to tell him - I cannot fix this. I keep trying and trying, and I will keep trying - but thus far it is not working.

It is possible that school will never be able to meet her math needs. It might be easier all round if she accept that you will try - but that meeting her needs in this area might be best done out of school.

Maybe your not there yet and maybe your school will come through for you. I hope so. Just keep this in mind in case you ever feel like you are beating your head against a wall.

Good luck!

Kathy
post #26 of 29
It might be the case that your daughter is interested in doing more, but is also at a point where she would actually have to start working beyond her initial intuitive understanding to get further in math. She might need a more structured environment to help her to find a way to tackle the next things she needs to learn. I think the idea of either requesting enrichment in school, or finding someone mathy to give her some challenges and help her go to the next level is great.

On the other hand, she could be looking for more depth of learning, but not be sure how to express is -- are there other related things like computer programming or designing and building something that interests her, or logic puzzles or statistics that would engage her in finding more ways to use her math ability? Is there a group or club where you are that might use these skills somehow, even if it has mostly older kids or adults?
post #27 of 29
I haven't read all the responses, but if you are looking for more "real life" applications of math, you could do quilting (for geometry and trigonometry), circuit building for logic, poker for probability, or computer programming. You might need to find someone else to teach some of that stuff, or you could learn together. I'm a computer programmer and I think teaching logic (not, and, or, xor) is a big hole in the general math curriculum, and I think it is something that elementary students could grasp. Good luck!
post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangerlm View Post
I haven't read all the responses, but if you are looking for more "real life" applications of math, you could do quilting (for geometry and trigonometry), circuit building for logic, poker for probability, or computer programming. You might need to find someone else to teach some of that stuff, or you could learn together. I'm a computer programmer and I think teaching logic (not, and, or, xor) is a big hole in the general math curriculum, and I think it is something that elementary students could grasp. Good luck!
Pre-momma days I did web app development w/ database integration (SQL Programming) and NT/Linux/Unix server admin. DH is a big geek too. We do lots of this stuff but it only happens if we initiate it, and then not always. We just started feeling like we were pushing and she wasn't interested even though she professed to be.
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 

Update

We had a very casual chat with DD earlier this week. We had told her we were going to her school to chat with folks there about 3rd grade and asked if there was anything she'd like us to discuss with them (she may write a letter herself for us to take in). She said she wants more challenging math and gave us some specific ideas for school.

She wants differentiated education, does not want to be accelerated to a different grade even for one subject and wants a guarantee that she will receive challenging math work. She will tolerate and do the boring/review work if she is also given challenging work which they define and hold her accountable for. She wants to go to grade level enrichment w/o having to do the unit pre-test to get in.

We told her that we will do whatever we can with the school to ensure she is challenged but also mentioned that all her educational needs/desires may not be met in school especially in the manner of her choosing. She is willing to negotiate her terms if the challenging work is present. We also discussed how there are things that some schools just aren't capable of teaching and used her Kung Fu as an example.

That said we also told her that we can challenge her at home and offer enrichment ourselves, she doesn't need to rely on school for text book education. We told her we did not want to push her into anything, but if she really wanted to learn something we would support her in anyway. She said she loves doing the algebra but most of the time when I offer she would rather do something else. She suggested that we set a time each day to work on it and on her own determined that the best time would be right after she brushed her teeth before bedtime. We agreed and offered flexibility and gave her the keys.

So it's been all week (except for one night when she had a friend sleepover) that right after brushing her teeth she has gathered up all of her algebra materials and sat down on the floor to get setup. DH or I have gone over wordlessly to help facilitate, no prompting from anyone.

I am reminded from this experience that she is different then I. She is scheduled and organized and rather inflexible. I am the opposite. While the thought of sitting down and doing algebra right before bedtime each night might give me the chills, I delight in the entire process we have gone through and thus, in doing it.

We will meet with her school on Wednesday to work on a solution on that front. We will continue to work with her at night before bed for as long as she wants and we have chatted with the neighbor about enrichment tutoring as well as DD loves that idea. Now it really sounds like overkill, but we gave her options and she is jumping on each and every one. She obviously is motivated and the desire is there: she wants DH or I to work on algebra with her and the neighbor to help her master long division. She has a plan.
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Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Parenting the Gifted Child › Yes they can, but do they have too? (or) Working up to their potential and asynchronicity, when to push?