Amazing August Abundant Alternatives Chat - Page 8

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by chlobo

It's me. Ok. I admit it. I have a problem (ok, I have many). I have HIGH lead. I ALSO have HIGH copper. So what are you going to do about it? huh?

Pat

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Blood calcium is tightly regulated by your hormones/bones, so really has nothing to do with intake. If your intake is low, then you activate more vit D so that you can absorb it better. When you have activated vitamin D floating around your body, it opens up the calcium ion channels on your cells. If those are too open, you open the door to fat storage (weight gain), insulin release (high insulin levels, insulin regulates it's own collection of stuff), and redirection of a bunch of nutrients (like cysteine) so that they're not available for detox. I don't remember the physiology exactly, but there's good reason to think that having calcium deposits/growths in the wrong places is a sign of needing *more* calcium.

Calcium is important. Get more.

Maybe that's why I was low D? I don't have weight gain or high insulin levels. My progesterone was high, but no other hormones (cortisol and a couple others were low). Just not sure how to get more calcium. I can only drink so much broth... We're having salmon tonight. That'll be good. I just need to figure out more on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by WuWei

We need a forum called, "What Nutrient Do I Need?".

In a game show format, with a big wheel that you turn...

Now I'm off to paint something.... door... wall... something.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Blood calcium is tightly regulated by your hormones/bones, so really has nothing to do with intake. If your intake is low, then you activate more vit D so that you can absorb it better. When you have activated vitamin D floating around your body, it opens up the calcium ion channels on your cells. If those are too open, you open the door to fat storage (weight gain), insulin release (high insulin levels, insulin regulates it's own collection of stuff), and redirection of a bunch of nutrients (like cysteine) so that they're not available for detox. I don't remember the physiology exactly, but there's good reason to think that having calcium deposits/growths in the wrong places is a sign of needing *more* calcium.

Calcium is important. Get more.

Your explanation is brilliant. I couldn't have read all day and understood it as well. :


Food Sources
Excellent sources of calcium include spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens and collard greens.



Very good sources of calcium include blackstrap molasses, Swiss chard, yogurt, kale, mozzarella cheese, cow's milk, and goat's milk. Basil, thyme, dill seed, cinnamon, and peppermint leaves are also very good sources of calcium.



Good sources of calcium include romaine lettuce, celery, broccoli, sesame seeds, fennel, cabbage, summer squash, green beans, garlic, tofu, Brussel sprouts, oranges, asparagus and crimini mushrooms. Oregano, rosemary, parsley, kombu, and kelp are also good sources of calcium.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=45


Pat

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Food Sources
Excellent sources of calcium include spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens and collard greens.

But above, someone said that the calcium in greens wasn't absorbed right. That's the one I've been getting a lot of this summer with rainbow swiss chard out of my mother's garden.

Good sources of calcium include romaine lettuce, celery, broccoli, sesame seeds, fennel, cabbage, summer squash, green beans, garlic, tofu, Brussel sprouts, oranges, asparagus and crimini mushrooms. Oregano, rosemary, parsley, kombu, and kelp are also good sources of calcium.

I've actually been eating a lot of salad this summer (with pine nuts of course). And we eat a lot of broccoli, some asparagus and brussel sprouts. I guess I need more sushi!!

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Just stop whatever supp is doing this then, as we need your brain energy in high gear.


Pat

What, you want this kid to have midline defects? :

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Maybe that's why I was low D? I don't have weight gain or high insulin levels. My progesterone was high, but no other hormones (cortisol and a couple others were low). Just not sure how to get more calcium. I can only drink so much broth... We're having salmon tonight. That'll be good. I just need to figure out more on a daily basis.

Yeah, I have an (unresearched) theory that all of our low D has at least something to do with low calcium using it up and low magnesium preventing proper use (or however magnesium interacts with it).

We do broth in as much as we can - soup, gravy, grains, oatmeal in the morning (hides pretty well). For salmon, where's the data on that? Cause I know canned fish is supposed to be a really good source, but most of that is that the bones get soft and you're eating them too. I wonder if fresh salmon is a significant source?

Originally Posted by WuWei

Your explanation is brilliant. I couldn't have read all day and understood it as well. :

Food Sources
Excellent sources of calcium include spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens and collard greens.

Very good sources of calcium include blackstrap molasses, Swiss chard, yogurt, kale, mozzarella cheese, cow's milk, and goat's milk. Basil, thyme, dill seed, cinnamon, and peppermint leaves are also very good sources of calcium.

Yeah, it took at least a week of reading, plus a few months of floating around in my head to understand that about calcium. Back when I wasn't getting enough folate...

So who's going to make a table of oxalates and calcium content of veggies? Cause I'm happy with my bone broth...

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by whoMe

So who's going to make a table of oxalates and calcium content of veggies? Cause I'm happy with my bone broth...

Calcium Oxalate Content of Selected Iguana Foods:
http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/cal_ox.html


Pat

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Yeah, I have an (unresearched) theory that all of our low D has at least something to do with low calcium using it up and low magnesium preventing proper use (or however magnesium interacts with it).

We do broth in as much as we can - soup, gravy, grains, oatmeal in the morning (hides pretty well).

I wonder, though, evolutionarily, did we consume 2-4 cups of animal milk as adults... or is the calcium in plants more bio-available... and it is just our low stomach acid which makes less absorbed?

Maybe our fats had more vit D too.

High calcium intake makes low mag blood levels, iirc. (and brittle bones)

The vit D and calcium have to do with proper pituitary function, iirc. (or was it parathyroid gland???) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...beccc5aee788c9


In rats:

Vitamin D regulates both intestinal calcium and phosphorus absorption to produce normal serum calcium and phosphorus levels (16http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ). In the absence of vitamin D, passive intestinal absorption of calcium and phosphorus can occur in the presence of high dietary levels (16http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ). Previously published research indicates that to normalize serum calcium and phosphorus levels of vitamin D–deficient rats, 20% lactose is required (17http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gifhttp://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ); a high calcium and high phosphorus diet alone is not sufficient. ,18Lactose has been shown to increase calcium and phosphorus absorption in the ileum section of the small intestine; however, the exact mechanism is unclear (19http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ,20http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ).

Regardless of the role of lactose in intestinal absorption, our data certainly show that normal serum calcium and phosphorus levels result in normal reproduction in the absence of vitamin D. The absence of vitamin D in these rats was verified by measurement of the blood form of vitamin D, i.e., 25-OH-D3. Clearly, lactose itself has no direct effect on reproduction because vitamin D-replete rats have identical reproductive values as the lactose-fed rats.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/8/2270


Pat

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Calcium Oxalate Content of Selected Iguana Foods:
http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/cal_ox.html


Pat

Cool, I didn't actually click on the link before! I know that the USDA also has some oxalate data if you poke around here:
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display...ax_subject=279
might help round out the list?

[lil_miss_understood]

Not on the current topic, but on the topic of FitDay (again... I'm not obsessing, really, I'm not... okay, I am... maybe)...
I'm planning to put every day of our meal plan into it to see what nutrients we're "short" on for that day in order to correct that with our snacks. This has me putting nearly all of our food in as "custom food" because I want to make sure that I'm getting a correct assessment of our nutrients. A real PITA.
The upside, however, is that it's making me actually write down "recipes" that I normally just throw together. So that's kind of cool and will be useful in my other project of making a Master Grocery List for each week of the meal plan.

ETA: Have I mentioned lately that I my remedy? The more organized I get, the less stressed I feel and the easier it is to get even more organized. :

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Cool, I didn't actually click on the link before! I know that the USDA also has some oxalate data if you poke around here:
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display...ax_subject=279
might help round out the list?

ah ha!

and individual nutrients, incl calcium:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=17477

eta: look what you made me do...
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...YRDVGMWc&hl=en
kale, turnip greens and garlic win; beet greens, amaranth and spinach lose. Cilantro beats out parsley by a mile.

[tanyalynn]

Just a reminder that lots of herbs (herbal infusion-type herbs) have a lot of calcium. I don't know how to quantify it, in terms of steeping time/temp, or whether it's more bioavailable because it's already dissolved in water, but it's another source to think about. My daughter really likes nettles with a little peppermint. I don't think the peppermint affects the flavor, at least as far as I can tell, but it smells lovely.

whoMe, your summary of calcium was really interesting. But I think I'm reading part of it wrong--will a bad situation (already overweight, sugar regulation issues, etc) get worse if you correct low vitamin D? That can't be right, can it? But it's an interesting case for supplemental magnesium to help close the channels, and since DH's family has a lot of those problems, and seems to benefit from extra mag, it's an interesting piece of the puzzle. Now if I could only convince them to cut out gluten...

[Lady Lilya]

Hi, everyone. Just catching up. That calcium stuff is very interesting to me. I want to hear lots more about it.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Yeah, I have an (unresearched) theory that all of our low D has at least something to do with low calcium using it up and low magnesium preventing proper use (or however magnesium interacts with it).

So who's going to make a table of oxalates and calcium content of veggies? Cause I'm happy with my bone broth...

I'm wondering about my neighbor who has actual brittle bone disease (and food allergies to tree nuts and most legumes) and most likely she's got food intolerances besides. I checked her lunulae and she's only got 1 or 2. I'm wondering what kind of nutritional advice to give her (or have her get checked - besides Vitamin D and magnesium). She's thinking about TTC shortly.

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Not on the current topic, but on the topic of FitDay (again... I'm not obsessing, really, I'm not... okay, I am... maybe)...
I'm planning to put every day of our meal plan into it to see what nutrients we're "short" on for that day in order to correct that with our snacks. This has me putting nearly all of our food in as "custom food" because I want to make sure that I'm getting a correct assessment of our nutrients. A real PITA.

I don't put them in as custom foods (though maybe I should). I just figure if I ate half the pizza, I halve my ingredients and put all the individual ingredients in. I want a remedy so that I can be organized too!!

Originally Posted by whoMe

and individual nutrients, incl calcium:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=17477

This is the salmon data on calcium: http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles...B07_Salmon.pdf

[kjbrown92]

And just a bit of good news... at least I think it's good news. We went to VT for a day trip on Tuesday and we stopped at a store, and I got all excited about the root beer because it said it was cane sugar, spices, and spring water... then DD2 and I each drank half a bottle, and I noticed there was a separate ingredients list that said those + citric acid. Ooops. My back hurt enough to ice it last night, and it took me forever to fall asleep (but maybe it was because I didn't want to put down HP #7, that I'm re-reading). But DD2 wet the bed that night and that was it. No folliculitis, no eczema, no tantrums... I have noticed that she's been drinking a little more than usual, but not too bad. And I've asked her about her stomach and she said it was fine. And she's been sleeping fine. Not that I'm going to give her more corn any time soon, but maybe with the smaller reaction it means she's improving....

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Just a reminder that lots of herbs (herbal infusion-type herbs) have a lot of calcium. I don't know how to quantify it, in terms of steeping time/temp, or whether it's more bioavailable because it's already dissolved in water, but it's another source to think about. My daughter really likes nettles with a little peppermint. I don't think the peppermint affects the flavor, at least as far as I can tell, but it smells lovely.

whoMe, your summary of calcium was really interesting. But I think I'm reading part of it wrong--will a bad situation (already overweight, sugar regulation issues, etc) get worse if you correct low vitamin D? That can't be right, can it? But it's an interesting case for supplemental magnesium to help close the channels, and since DH's family has a lot of those problems, and seems to benefit from extra mag, it's an interesting piece of the puzzle. Now if I could only convince them to cut out gluten...

Yeah, I'm still worried about oxalates in the herbs, too...

And no, you're reading it wrong about vit D. Basically, I'm thinking that you want to minimize the *activated* vitamin D, by getting lots of calcium (and mag and phos). And that when you *aren't* getting enough calcium, then you start burning through your vit D stores pretty fast, resulting in really low vit D levels (and all those problems). So adding vit D will help some with other things, but it doesn't touch the calcium issue.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

I'm wondering about my neighbor who has actual brittle bone disease (and food allergies to tree nuts and most legumes) and most likely she's got food intolerances besides. I checked her lunulae and she's only got 1 or 2. I'm wondering what kind of nutritional advice to give her (or have her get checked - besides Vitamin D and magnesium). She's thinking about TTC shortly.

This is the salmon data on calcium: http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles...B07_Salmon.pdf

Apperently it's the new stuff where I'm trying to understand a whole new situation/condition that's totally overwhelming right now.

"Raw salmon tissue contained between 6 and 13 mg/100g. Retail canned salmon with bone had 221 to and 277 mg/100g. Other processed forms had intermediate levels of 28 to 69 mg/100g."
I hope that copied right, it got kinda scrambled. So yeah, the high calcium content is because you're eating the bones. Are you eating the bones?

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Apperently it's the new stuff where I'm trying to understand a whole new situation/condition that's totally overwhelming right now.

"Raw salmon tissue contained between 6 and 13 mg/100g. Retail canned salmon with bone had 221 to and 277 mg/100g. Other processed forms had intermediate levels of 28 to 69 mg/100g."
I hope that copied right, it got kinda scrambled. So yeah, the high calcium content is because you're eating the bones. Are you eating the bones?

I used canned salmon without the bones, or fresh fillets (also no bones). I wish pine nuts had calcium

[Lady Lilya]

Sooooooo.....

I got that taste-test kit that Tanya kept posting about. With the bottles to test for potassium, zinc, magnesium, copper, chromium, manganese, molybdenum and selenium. DH and I decided to try it together last night.

There is a rating system:
1) sweet
2) pleasant
3) no taste
4) hmmmmmm....taste something (the goal)
5) so...so
6) don't like
7) pretty bad

It was amazingly hard to rate them. We tasted some of them several times. We kept not being sure about the number we were giving them.

I found them to mostly have a faint sour taste, as if there was a drop of lemon juice in a big glass of water. Some of them had a faintly sweet component, but still had that sour component. I wonder if in most people they would balance out and be "taste something" indistinguishable. But I have an extremely perceptive pallet and can pick out all the flavors. I can always name the spices in something someone's cooked for me.

Anyway, I settled on 4.5 as a score for potassium, zinc, magnesium, and copper. 5 for chromium. 2 for manganese and selenium, because I figured the magnitude of the sweet was greater than the magnitude of the sour. And 1.5 for molybdenum for the same reason.

DH had all the same results as me, except for chromium which he rated 2.

So, I still feel like I have to reflect on these results. I was really thrown for a loop by how hard it was to rate them. My body is usually very very very clear about what it wants to eat and what it doesn't want to eat. For example, as of last week it finds romaine lettuce very repulsive. So, maybe I need to try again in a few days now that my body is a little familiar with each of them.

Then this afternoon I got curious and decided to taste the zinc sulfate in my cabinet that I got for taste testing and hadn't yet used. OMG it was the most awful thing! And I spent a long time trying to get the taste out of my mouth. I am so glad I didn't spread it around my mouth more before I spit it out. I was actually rubbing my tongue and roof of my mouth with a washcloth to try to get rid of it, in addition to brushing my teeth very vigorously.

And while I was in the bathroom doing that, DS grabbed the plate of freshly baked goods and ripped them all into pieces and left them all over the counter and his learning tower and the floor. But it was SOOOOO worth the loss of the intact-ness of the baked goods in order to finally have some clear and decisive result about something.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by whoMe

Apperently it's the new stuff where I'm trying to understand a whole new situation/condition that's totally overwhelming right now.

"Raw salmon tissue contained between 6 and 13 mg/100g. Retail canned salmon with bone had 221 to and 277 mg/100g. Other processed forms had intermediate levels of 28 to 69 mg/100g."
I hope that copied right, it got kinda scrambled. So yeah, the high calcium content is because you're eating the bones. Are you eating the bones?

What if no one else in your family likes the bones, so you eat them all?

[AnnieMarie]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I haven't tried zeolite. I've read a bit because PB mentioned it. From what I understand, it is probably safe. I'm not clear on how it 'captures' and binds mercury. But, it is a natural product mined from the earth, processed in an artificial manner to remove naturally occurring heavy metals and toxins. There are synthetic versions also, which are 'purer', theoretically.

My concern, assuming it works, is that it binds other + ions, such Na+, Ca+, Mg+, K+. Removing these from our blood, doesn't sound like a beneficial idea, even temporarily. Taking the zeolite separately from food and supplements is recommended. However, we ALWAYS need Na, Ca, Mg and K circulating in our body. So,

Also, it isn't being consumed in its natural form, so that weights me to skip it.

My efforts have been to rebalance my body with whole foods, which have been consumed and processed in natural forms by our ancestors, for eons. I understand the heavy toxin loads and nutrient deficiencies of our SAD. I just trust Mother Nature, more than Science. jmmv

An old post with more zeolite links and info: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d#post14115387

Regarding detoxing current mercury fillings, my goal has been to optimize my detox pathways so that there is less 'excess' toxins being stored. As a nursing mom, I'm not sure if eliminating old stores of toxins is timely. With a bunch of mercury fillings, eliminating candida pushes one over to dumping toxins to baby. Of course, we could help baby detox with optimized nutrients. It is a balancing game, based upon toxin loads and priorities and symptom management. Only you are the best judge of what feels right for your body. Listen to it, not me.


HTH, Pat

Thanks Pat, I totally forgot about that thread , I seem to have some major brain fog, am not all here ATM. I couldn't belive how much I have reacted to a bit of wheat and artificial additives!! The kids have too . The more I look at things, the more it makes sense to me to focus on healing, and rebuilding with healthy eating (green smoothies, bone broths and fermented veggies) and supps (for a few months). My main priority now is not to do anything harmful to the kids, my issues have been around for years and can most likely wait a bit longer. DS1 has been taking zeolite for about 2 weeks, and apart from some minor detox symptoms hasn't noticed any changes, I am still in two minds about taking it, even though I 'self-tested' positive as I don't want to be removing minerals I have tried to build up over the last months ... I am falling asleep at my desk here, gosh it is 10:15pm, way past mt bedtime nowdays lol