*~*'~* August Dating Thread *~*'~* Gettin' our feet wet and doin' the 2 step! *~*'~* - Page 2

[Hollycrand]

I think with swimming guy, women tend to leave at a certain point. He's not really a player, and his version is that he hasn't met the right woman, which is why he never had kids (had long term relationships though...here in Quebec most people don't get married...).

I still am a bit wary of any long term intentions from him...which is why I'm not acting clingy or too affectionate. He can be a bit moody, say things that might offend someone else. Sometimes he really reminds me of my exh (which is sometimes good, and sometimes not so good).

Right now, I'm just happy to have someone to do things with and to kiss. If he dumped me tomorrow I'd be sad, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Not that we're 'together' or anything.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by Seie

From his history I wouldnt have high expectations for a long term thing though - usually when they live that long without ever having had a serious long term relationship either its because they dont want one, or because women tend to leave come a certain point. Surely there is the chance he just hasnt met "the one" yet - but I wouldnt count on that last option.

Personally, I don't believe in generalizations. There are always too many exceptions. I have dated a few of those exceptions, in addition to being great friends with a few more of those exceptions.

Most of the men I know, older and younger alike, truly fear a "bad" marriage significantly more than women do. They tend to be a lot more cautious before entering into matrimony. Therefore, if an older man hasn't been married... I wouldn't be too concerned.

Now, if they have never been in a long-term, serious relationship... I wouldn't rule him out completely, but I would want to know A LOT more. And, I would really listen with open, honest (not just what I want or expect to hear) ears.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by Seie

But I know work/carreer is importent for him - so I should expect doing the majority of the parenting. I dont mind that, as long as he treats me good when we are together and that I know he will.

Anyway I actually think that eventually he will let me have my way simply because if he loves me as much as I think he does he wont be able to deny me that.

This doesn't seem like much of a partnership, Seie. Is that not what you are looking for?

Originally Posted by Seie

I just dont know - I guess I will give things a year or so, then tell him to be the one in charge of birth control and see where that takes us. If that means him getting snipped - I dont think I would be able to stay.

I don't know, this seems like a veiled (and sneaky) ultimatum to me.

Originally Posted by Seie

Its just hard to have to think about all these things long term when I am already so broody I can hardly stand seeing pregnant ladies or newborns..
Anyway I actually think that eventually he will let me have my way simply because if he loves me as much as I think he does he wont be able to deny me that. And no - I wouldnt have a problem with him making such a "sacrifice" for me. IMO the kids you regret are the ones you dont get. .

I totally understand that you love and adore your bf and I 100% respect how difficult it would be to leave him. Unfortunately, your need to have another child is equally important, perhaps -- for you, as you have stated -- even more important than your bf.

Therefore, why are you watching time tick by with a man, who has been VERY honest with you about not wanting to have another child -- to the point of wanting to get a vasectomy? People very rarely and I mean VERY rarely change their minds about something like this, especially when they have reach the point of wanting to have a surgical procedure to make sure it doesn't happen.

Originally Posted by Seie

I completely trust that he is able to love and care for another baby. I just hope he agrees.

Yeah, that is probably very true... BUT how much will he resent you for *pressuring* him (AND forcing him to sacrifice himself for your love) into having a child when he told you he didn't want one?

I don't know, Seie... just be careful!

[LoveOhm]

Originally Posted by Seie

As for giving him ultimatums that wont work at all. He has pretty much told me that I am free to make choices for myself - meaning if I cant live with possibly never having another baby I should consider whether he is right for me long term.

I think you have answered yourself in this statement..... and honestly I would not wait around hoping to change someone.

[LoveOhm]

Slight update.....

StableGuy and I had a really fun time together. We went out of town to a concert and while there were some bumps in the road of getting there (I missed my initial flight that I was supposed to meet him on and made us late for the concert).... he was wonderful and once I arrived I just climbed right into his arms and stayed there almost all night. We had a yummy dinner out just chatting about so much and later we danced but that is an area in need of improvement..... I have a great deal to reflect on with him so I am just sitting with all my thoughts and once they are coherent in my mind I will try to express them to you ladies.

I have not seen or chatted with 2ndHusband in a little bit mostly because I am trying to take care of some items on my end but HOPE to see him this upcoming weekend I had not danced in three weekends when I saw StableGuy which only made me miss dancing with 2ndHusband.

[Seie]

Holland:
Both me and BF want an equal relationship. We both come from relationships that were nothing but equal - with abuse and controlling behaviour. He is a very - well how do you say it - he is in balance with himself. He wont let me "pressure" him into something he doesnt want to do. If he decided to have a kid with me at some point it will be his decision - just as if eventually I choose to leave it is my choice to make.

This whole situation would be a lot easier if he told me plain out that he will never have another baby - or if he went ahead with the vasectomy. I wouldnt like him doing that - it would break my heart -but it would make my choices more simple - stay and give up on more children - or leave and have a chance to have more. As it is now he wont rule it out and that is what makes it difficult - right now my choice is stay with the man I love and risk not having more children or leave the man I love and still risk not having more children as well as risking never to meet that kind of love again. For now I go with option number one - stay and possibly have a kid with HIM at some point.

I have been very open and honest with him from day one about my wishes for more child/ren. I have no hidden agendas and am not trying to manipulate or use threats to get him to do things my way. And i definately dont do "sneaky" ultimatums. Leaving the man in charge of birth control is hardly "sneaky". If I want more kids and he doesnt, I dont see why I should be the one to make sure it doesnt happen. He is free to either use a condom or get his snip done - that is not my choice. But whether I want to stay if he choses to do so IS my choice. I just dont get it. If I choose to leave him NOW over him possibly not wanting a child with me is the choice of a modern independent woman but if I make the same choice a year from now I will be sneaky? I feel slightly offended to be honest.

I often seem to hear the "if he doesnt fit your list of demands, dump him" on here. IMO that is NOT how love works. You dont just dump people when they dont do things your way. I believe I have a very big heart - with lots of space. BF even said to me at some point "You are the only girlfriend I have ever had who doesnt try to turn me into someone else". But the one thing about having another child or two is the one single thing I cant give up. And he knows that. He also knows that I am staying with him with the hope that this will happen. He just isnt at a point in his life where he can make any promises. So as I said before - we both realise that there is a disagreement here or a possible future major conflict. But we cant seem to meet anywhere just yet.
DO you ask whether having another baby is more importent than him? Yes I guess it might be eventually - and he is well aware that is how I feel. Surely you can turn that argument around and ask whether for him NOT having another baby is more importent to him than me?

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by Seie

For now I go with option number one - stay and possibly have a kid with HIM at some point.


.... But we cant seem to meet anywhere just yet.

... whether for him NOT having another baby is more importent to him than me?

Do you want someone to have a baby just to let you have your way and not lose you? Not being snarky seriously wondering the answer to that question and not implying there's anything so wrong with either answer..

What if you do what sagesgirl mentioned and let him know explicitly that you have a period of some months (not years) where you will hang around him out of love, to see if he finds his clarity on the issue. And if it's still a muddy mess, then you will have to cut your losses and move on....? Or maybe you have already done this?

[Seie]

What if you do what sagesgirl mentioned and let him know explicitly that you have a period of some months (not years) where you will hang around him out of love, to see if he finds his clarity on the issue. And if it's still a muddy mess, then you will have to cut your losses and move on....? Or maybe you have already done this?

I dont think I can do this. Its possible that I actually do care about him enough to hang around infinitely. Pathetic? Not sure if I am pathetic of a die-hard-romantic. Or just a plain idiot. Ideally I guess I hope his love for me is so genuine that he will wish me to be as happy as I can be - and that means he will have to agree on more kids. Geez why does love have to be so complicated Anyway it sounds a bit like what you are suggesting is pretty similar to my original plan - to let him be responsible for birth control. I guess that will force him to make a decision of some sort and not keep me hanging there in mid air..

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by Seie

Anyway it sounds a bit like what you are suggesting is pretty similar to my original plan - to let him be responsible for birth control. I guess that will force him to make a decision of some sort and not keep me hanging there in mid air..

So are you saying that you're going to go ahead and do that now? It's not like buying a pack of condoms is the end of the world for a man, even if they prefer to go without. What if he seems to indefinitely just wear condoms and then you still are left dangling in mid-air. Definitely if he gets a vasectomy then you have your answer, but...... sigh....... so when do you plan to shift the responsibility of birth control to his shoulders and hope for some kind of a resolution?

[LoveOhm]

Seie I want happiness for you but everything I am reading scares me a little especially since your children are also dangling along beside you. I do understand the birth control shift & I do know some of my married friends do this for various reasons with good results however in reading your post I also see the flip side.....

if your love for him is so genuine that you will wish him to be as happy as he can be - then that means you won't pressure him to have children and that you adjust mentally / emotionally (or you move on.....)

And one thing not being mentioned a great deal is that he is willing and happy to take welcome your children as his own, providing for them emotionally, financially, etc. (if I recall correctly) so he IS having children for you, just not a new birth with both of your flesh.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by loveohm

if your love for him is so genuine that you will wish him to be as happy as he can be - then that means you won't pressure him to have children and that you adjust mentally / emotionally (or you move on.....)

:

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by LoveOhm

Seie I want happiness for you but everything I am reading scares me a little especially since your children are also dangling along beside you....
And one thing not being mentioned a great deal is that he is willing and happy to take welcome your children as his own, providing for them emotionally, financially, etc. (if I recall correctly) so he IS having children for you, just not a new birth with both of your flesh.

Very excellent points.


Is he saying, "sweetie we've only met 8 months ago, let's discuss having a child of our own down the line at some point......" Because if he is, I think he's right. 8 months is still not that long a time frame to jump into co-parenting together.

Your kids have survived a divorce (messy one) in the past year, your eldest is showing signs of being a bit angry/troubled by the upheaval in life situations. Now they've had 8 months (now it's a LONG time to all your 3 children who are so young) to bond with your current BF and I think stability in your kids' lives is very important. An accidental pregnancy and possible breakup with your ex just seems like the worst possible scenario from your children's point of view, as well as from yours. I pray that things just work out for everyone involved, especially your three current little babes.....

[Seie]

I think you get me wrong. I dont want a kid NOW. I just want to know its an option later. The shift responsibility for birth control is not something I will do from now on - but something I will do when I feel the time would be right to have another. I agree now is NOT a good time for a baby - I just want to know its a possibility. And no - he is not ruling it out as mentioned before - he just wont make any promises. I dont think he is being unfair about this - we just cant meet anywhere for the time being.
Sure I know he is taking on a lot already and I am not trying to rush things. I dont feel you quite see this from my point of view. It sounds like you all think my wish is completely unreasonable? Well - this is not about what is reasonable or sensible. Its a very strong wish and hope - I dont feel I should have to defend those feelings. I guess there is no solution to this really. Just felt like getting it off my chest - not that I am feeling a whole lot better about it now though..

[JohnnysGirl]

Am I needy?

I feel like I need some little daily moment of making connection with the guy that I'm crushing on. It could be a cute text message from him, it could be a 5-10 minute phone call where I really feel like he's present and 'into' the conversation (making me laugh, confiding in me, whatever), etc, and sometimes more than that, if schedules are relaxed and open for it. Do you guys also feel like in the time frame of 1-3 days you pretty much need some sort of connection to occur, or you start to feel like the person might have evaporated out there in the stratosphere? Of course in a longer term relationship I could feel differently, ....things with the G.A. are pretty fresh, new, and uncertain, but.....I don't think I'll change. If there's a guy out there who has me on the brain, and wants very much that I'm thinking of him as well (and not some other guy(s) ) then I would assume he should initiate (at least 50% of the time him initiating) some form of contact, every day or every other day, just to keep things rolling along and feeling 'on.' Am I alone in this? :

Like, Sunday night, the GA called me and we spoke for a long time. Like an hour or so. It was a great call, and he pushed back his appropriate 'bedtime' to let it go on longer than he intended. Then on Monday, he's back at work and I hear nothing. So I text him something cute. He texts back several hours later something equally interesting, and that's that. No call in the evening. Fair enough. The next day, nothing all day. Nada. Then at 10pm I see him on facebook. I message him there through the chat program and we have a little chat back and forth and he says he's gonna go to sleep soon, when his washer finishes it's cycle and he can hang up his laundry. I suggest that if he's bored washing the machine spin and needs someone to help him stay awake until the end, he could call me and I'd talk to him and entertain him. He continued chatting instead, politely averting my offer to switch to the phone. We chatted awhile longer and then he went to bed. : Now today it's halfway through the day, and nothing. If he doesn't actually *call* me tonight, I'm gonna feel weird. Then it will be 3 full days since we spoke or really had much connection at all, across these hundred miles, and I dunno, that just doesn't really sit well with me if it continues to a fourth full day or even a fifth. It seems like if someone out there really is crushing on you, but are busy, they should wisely take advantage of how quick and easy it is to send some electronic 'hello' towards their target of interest. Takes me less than one minute to text him something catchy and sweet (or naughty), and I'm not suggesting we blow each other's cell phones up all day, the man is an engineer and they expect him to work at work, but hell, less than a minute? Once or twice on a break or at lunch should be totally workable. Or then a every day or two phone call to catch up. Am I being completely needy???? : Be honest with me. I'm not asking for anything more than a chance to hear his voice maybe 3 times a week even if it's not a long call, or then hear from him via a few words pretty much daily, sent to me electronically, to let me know that he's at least thinking of me, even if he doesn't have time to hang out on the phone with me.

The hazard here is that if I don't feel 'on' with a guy, and there are stretches of time where I'm not seeing him, then I start to not feel 'on' with him anymore and end up wandering towards other options consciously and/or subconsciously. The larger issue is that it's a long distance relationship and I'm not ok with the thought of spending two weekends per month with this guy if things progress. I have every other weekend free so that's 4 days in a given month where the G.A. and I could potentially devote to each other, if he were to stay in the town he's at. It's not an indefinite arrangement I could live with. : I just can't handle that limited contact. I want someone *IN* my life, not on the periphery of my life. If it gets to that level.... kwim? Obviously in the first 6 months seeing one another for some fun about once a week would be plenty, but having to cut it down to connecting twice a month seems sparse. I wanna get to know him so I can know if this is the potential for something real, and I need to spend time with him to do that. I'm nervous already that the distance is gonna be the killer. Guy in Brussels certainly made me wary of LDRs, even though a two hours drive is a lot more surmountable than a 3 hour flight. But the point is that, just like with the guy in Brussels, this guy is gonna have to sell his home, move to my city, and get a new job, all in order to see where things go (i.e. give things a reasonable chance at panning out), with me. That's a lot of pressure to put on a budding romance, no matter how you slice it. I'm not entirely comfortable with it. And of course I'd never request all that, directly, but certainly not put up a fight if this guy wishes to do those things in order to see me regularly and appropriately as 'a boyfriend,' eventually. I know this guy is thinking about us being an item longer term....he's mentioned me to his friends, I've met one of them, he is talking about coming to my birthday party which happens in six weeks and has made jokes requesting certain special treatments for when he turns 30 in November (that's 3 months from now, ladies, in case you glossed over that)..... but what I haven't said to him is that a) I don't know if I can handle seeing him only twice a month for the rest of the calendar year, if he prefers that I am exclusively seeing him (and I know he is full-on hoping that no other men catch my eye and wants that I'm the only guy in his life but also hasn't tried to initiate a serious exclusivity conversation just yet, because it's so soon) and b) he's gonna have to at least put the plan into motion, on relocating into my zip code, in the coming months (actual move could happen next year but it would have to be already explicitly worked on and me to know he's doing everything he possibly can to make it happen as soon as he can) or I think it will fall apart due to my simply feeling like.....he's there and I'm here and his life is there and my life is here and that's the way it is.

Why can't I stop typing? I've got like ....diarrhea of fingertips-making-contact-with-the-QWERTY.

Before you guys think that I'm being a complete psycho in terms of wanting him to move, let me just mention that he hates the town he lives in at the moment, has only been there 2 years, and neither his friends nor family are there. His job is also suddenly up in the air due to his company getting purchased and his old role there vanishing, so he's at a crossroads in his career and the majority of jobs in his field (heck the majority of JOBS) in this country are here in my zip code anyways. It would make a lot of sense all around for him to move here and work on his career, and since he has no personal reasons to stay.... : It seems like a no-brainer. Unless he really itches to move to his hometown, but he makes it sound like he's more interested in moving to a bigger area with more things to do and maybe someday down the line moving to his hometown where most of his friends and all his family live. Moving to my area wouldn't make him any further from his hometown than he is now, the driving time would remain the same to visit neices and nephew and sisters and parents, so that doesnt' make it less attractive.... From where I sit the only drawback would be selling his home in this market and having to go through the trouble of arranging a new employer and place to live. But he's very employable and I think the new employer would include a furnished apartment as part of compensation to lure him over here and even cover relocation expenses. Selling the apartment might kinda suck right now, though.

Ya'll think I'm psycho, right? After 3 dates I'm already thinking these things? It's just that.... I want things between the GA and I to have at least the chance to flourish ....and if they are cut off from oxygen (my little metaphor for having time to be around each other) they will die, plain and simple. I want it to not work out because of compatibility issues or 'just not the right one' kinda conclusions for whatever reason. Not because of a hundred miles between us and having schedules that don't match up very well in terms of seeing each other very much, with our respective other commitments.

The silver lining is that he seems and has said explicitly that he's willing to do some driving to come see me on random week days after work, when he can dig out early and hit the road and be here in time to take me to dinner, and he's got a flexible timetable at work so he could even stay in bed with me until *I* have to get up before driving the two hours to work from my place. He has said that he doubts that if I ever angle and try to tempt him into doing that, he'd ever be able to say no. However, four hours of driving time in a 20 hour time period, plus the expense (more than 50 bucks) of gas, is not something that will really prove to lubricate and encourage our relationship to thrive. : I could see that getting old real fast. Or maybe it'll just put a bee in his trousers in terms of getting him antsy about looking for a better job, here in the capital city area.

Gonna try to shut up now....sooooo hard......

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by Seie

I guess there is no solution to this really. Just felt like getting it off my chest - not that I am feeling a whole lot better about it now though..

I'm sorry none of us have made you feel any better. I want you to be able to vent and get things off your chest here, and not feel attacked or anything. I think we're all just speaking out loud our thoughts on such a complicated issue, but we all have such limited information....we can't even really understand everything surrounding your ideas and feelings via just a few lines posted here, much less your boyfriends', etc.... its' just a limited venue for discussion.

It's good you aren't wishing to have a baby right this minute. Is there any way you can just get the whole thing off your mind for the next year and enjoy having this man in your life whom you really adore, and who is treating you and your three kids with such sweetness?

But, sigh. I know it has to be the 'elephant in the room' in terms of sort of seeing that there are pretty radical thoughts on such a basic issue surrounding men and women and 'partnering up' and sharing their lives together. You're already broody about seeing newborns and pregnant women and want to feel like there's no reason to think that won't be you, down the line, with your current BF as the father in that fantasy scenario, and he is the polar opposite of broody and hardly ready to jump in there and fantasize together with you about you getting pregnant and a future child you two would make together. Mentioning vasectomy is kind of the antithesis to that.

There was one point last winter when you guys laid in bed and discussed baby names, what you would name your 'first' biological child together. Was that a moment of insanity for him, or did it seem like proof that deep down, there's a man who would love to make a child with you one day when the time is right and his insecurities about finances and timing have abated.....?

It's a recession, and in the 8 months you've known each other he's lost his job, and so have you. He's not being totally crazy in feeling that adding a fourth child to your lives is not something he can really fathom or get excited about even planning at this point. Lots of families are just hoping to get by, and provide for the children they have the best that they possibly can in tough economic times. It's normal not to be gung-ho about dropping the birth control and letting the house fill up with kids in this kind of economic climate. But I know your hormones don't know or care about that. Sigh. I want everything to work out for you guys.....all five of you (heck, seven of you, if he could regain access to his children).

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by Butterflymom

. Am I being completely needy???? : Be honest with me.

I vividly remember similar feelings with my bf in the first month or two of our relationship.

A big part of it was because I was feeling vulnerable and felt like I needed to be reassured daily that he was still diggin' on me. For him (after having a talk about it many, many months later), it was about processing his feelings about me and just needing to focus on his work (which is very demanding and exhausting).

I personally didn't like being in that place, so I focused ALL of that energy on something else (such as a work project, learning a new hobby, etc.), reminded myself that if it didn't work out with him I would be OK... I would survive and, perhaps, he would just be a sign that I am getting closer to what I wanted.

Of course, as soon as I started doing my own thing, he was banging at my door (and telephone).

So, my best advice... redirect those feelings into something for yourself!!!

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by Seie

I dont feel you quite see this from my point of view. It sounds like you all think my wish is completely unreasonable?

Seie

I don't think your wish is completely unreasonable at all! In fact, I think that your strong desire to have another child is VERY important and not to be taken lightly at all, which is why your bf's indecision and inability to make such promises about this topic are SOOOO imperative to the longevity your relationship.

Your relationship is still new and you both have had a lot going on in both of your lives. Give it time and readdress the issue in the coming months when life has slowed down a bit more and you are both at a stable, happy place in your lives.

Try not to think about the future too much... it is not something you can control, so it makes no sense to fret about it.

[Sagesgirl]

Originally Posted by Holland73

I don't think your wish is completely unreasonable at all! In fact, I think that your strong desire to have another child is VERY important and not to be taken lightly at all, which is why your bf's indecision and inability to make such promises about this topic are SOOOO imperative to the longevity your relationship.

I agree with this completely. We're not trying to come down on you about wanting to have another baby. I think we all realize you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I guess, really, all you can do at this moment is let it ride. I think Butterflymom is spot-on when she says that the economy may be playing a role in his reluctance. Men tend to be much more worried about the money side of things; I've certainly never known one to just shrug and say "Well, we'll figure out a way." (Er, well, before the pregnancy is known. My XH did take much that approach when we found out I was pregnant a fourth time. Then again, he also left me when I was 10 weeks pregnant and that led directly to my miscarriage so maybe it's not the best example.)

Your situation has definitely been cause for some introspection on my part. I know that I have to be careful not to find myself in your exact situation should I meet a great guy; I have an unfortunate habit of abandoning things I want to try to keep the peace in a relationship.

Butterflymom, if you're needy then so am I. I think maybe this is another one of those difference between the sexes things. But with a long distance relationship, contact becomes more important. I know you've said he's really into you...it just may not cross his mind that you need a little oxygen.

I do understand your reluctance to invest too much of your psyche into an LDR though. My real fear with them--having married at the end of one--is that it's hard to get real in an LDR, even one where you can see each other frequently. When you make that effort, you're sort of automatically on your best behavior and the warts never show through. But it's those warts that make or break a relationship.

I don't really think you have a recourse other than being very upfront...but I'd have a damned hard time with it in your shoes!

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Sagesgirl

Butterflymom, if you're needy then so am I. I think maybe this is another one of those difference between the sexes things. But with a long distance relationship, contact becomes more important. I know you've said he's really into you...it just may not cross his mind that you need a little oxygen.

I agree - I DON´T think there is anything needy in wanting a text message every day even though he is busy. I would want and expect the same!

[Seie]

Thanks girls. You are right its in the future. I really really have to go sleep now - just couldnt read and not write at least something.

Butterfly: Well my BF just doesnt have that need for daily communication. I know in the beginning he needed time to process everything. You remember how hard it was for me if he didnt reply INSTANTLY to my messages or if it was two days without contact from him. BAck then you adviced me to put my mind on something else and let him have some time to miss me a bit. I tried to follow that advice and eventually he would always get back to me and he didnt think it was even one bit weird that we hadnt talked for 3 days. Now we talk every day though and if I dont call him one evening I can be sure he will call me the next evening - only once he didnt and it turned out he had left his phone at work. So try to relax - give him room to breathe and trust what you feel coming from him when you are together. Hugs and thoughts.
Now I GOT to go sleep..