Moving to France and clueless..

[Shiloh]

Okay I am moving to France in a year for a min. of one year.
There is no issue with passports, I have EU citizenship.
I need to start thinking of where to live.
I am not sure I can take living in an apartment in Paris.
I like some measure of quiet at night.
I'd like to rent a house within an hour driving or train of Paris (Nanterre side)
Any suggestions for family friendly places to look into?

[Marylizah]

You are right to think outside of Paris if you like quiet. Also, rents drop the farther you go from the city.

I'm not on the Nanterre side at all, but I've heard good things about Chatou (there's a Waldorf school there, for example). It's on the RER A.

I'm on the RER B, south of the city, not too far from Antony. I love our quiet little village (we also have a Waldorf school)-- and it's only 45 mins bus + train ride into the heart of Paris.

If you want more info, feel free to PM me! Good luck with your big move.

[*theophane*]

hello there!

If you like quiet places, yet aesthetically pleasing ( i mean, not a grey "banlieue"), you might enjoy the west and south suburbs.
in the South:
*Verrieres, really well connected, very green and a real village vibe. (but RER B is often shut down during strikes). a lake, a forest, farmers, well, really cool.
*Sceaux is beautiful, also on the B line of the RER, a beautiful park. pretty mainstream 'bourgeois" feeling, though.

in the West:
*igny, bievres, Jouy en Josas and some of most rural parts or Versailles; they are on the C line of the RER, and although not too terribly well connected, you can be in Paris in less than one hour)
*Chatou is nice and quiet, also very well connected, and quick to Nanterre_ my friends used to live there when studying in Nanterre. a bit bourgeois too, but not exclusively. Many expats - also in Le Vesinet.

saint cloud is also nice but very bourgeois. it's on the heights, with nice views of Paris.


Good luck!

isabelle

Marylizah _ so you finally made it to Verrieres! how do you like it? we might
be able to land there next year or the year after, so we did some prospection last month during our holiday, and we just fell in love with Amblainvilliers. We were supposed to go to the Fete de la St Jean at the Waldorf school but DS was sick and we had to cancel.
we'll try to be there this Winter for the Christmas celebrations.
oh and congrats on your pregnancy!

[Shiloh]

I will pm you when I get my pm box empty!
I will be coming with my 3 sons who then will be
8.5, 5.5, 2 years old.

I have a few years of French, I am not worried so much about the culture shock. More choosing the right place.
With enough to do...For me and the kids. I have friends and some family within a few hours/half a day drive. My dad is also threatening to come so I'd like a place big enough for guests. Atleast a 2 bedroom, 3 would be ideal.

I am not sure if I will bring the car, and if i do it might take a few weeks to ship or months. so I'd like a place with walkable schools, close to easy transport to Nanterre. My oldest is interested in trying out for an arts school that will board Sunday night to Friday. I am not sure I could afford a 2 bedroom close by and a 1 seems too small. I will also be going without husband so I need basics close by. But I am growing tired of living too close to too many people in my own townhouse complex, a small house would be
lovely. If he makes it in dh will then look for a job in Paris or London.

What does 'bougeois' actually translate to in terms of a neihbourhood?
How hard will it be to find a rental?
Any good website recommendations?
What is a strike, are they an hour or a day long event?
What to bring, buy there?

[Marylizah]

Most of the close suburbs (within 1 hr of Paris) have everything you would need within walking distance. In my village I have two grocery stores, 3 bakeries, 2 butchers, 2 large grocery stores, 4 flowershops, plus 2 buslines all within 5 minutes.

By bourgeois, *theophane* basically means fancy. St. Cloud is a very rich neighborhood, the buildings are lovely and spacious (but it's probably much more of a hike to get anywhere on foot--) and all the shops you find will be geared towards higher-income people.

As for strikes, lol, no, they aren't just a few hours or a day. Often they last several days. And it can mean anything from 2 trains out of 3 running, to no trains at all. It can last only a day, but more often is several days or even up to a week. So far, I haven't dealt with a major strike since moving back, but I also don't need to go into Paris, it's usually optional! To be fair, strikes are a problem no matter where you live in France, and if you live in Paris it isn't better.

Will it be hard to find a rental? I don't know. It depends totally on your budget and where you are looking.

Some websites: check the websites for Guy Hoquet, Century 21 (real estate chains). You can also check www.seloger.com and www.pap.fr (seloger is a website with ads from real estate agencies, pap is individuals renting or selling directly to other individuals.

What to bring: shipping goods is expensive. When we moved back, we had about 1/2 of a 20' container, the move cost us over 7000 dollars. And moving stuff BACK can be problematic: we spent just over a year in the US, and we had issues with customs-- they weren't sure they would let us ship back our household goods without paying custom duties on them (all our fancy French Ikea furniture! ) So check moving prices / estimates before deciding what to bring, and check US (or Canadian, not sure where you are) customs. As for your car: depending on the model/make you may not want to bring it. For example, in the States we had a Nissan Altima. They don't sell Altimas here; maintaining or repairing it would have been very difficult. We sold it and haven't bought one here yet.

The truth is that it is very expensive to move to another country. You will have to buy all your electronic stuff again, from appliances to your clock radio.

Other websites to check: craigslist, for replacing household goods you don't bring.

And, HI! *theophane*! We are in Verrieres, and loving it. I can't remember what was so great about Paris now! lol, it seems so loud and polluted and crowded compared to here. We ended up deciding against the Waldorf school for DS, as our neighborhood one (les Gros Chenes) is quite small and charming. And close to our apartment! With a newborn in winter this will be important! Let me know next time you are in the area so I can say Hi in person!

[Shiloh]

thanks for all the great information!
I guess I am still trying to figure out this 'upper income' hood thing.
If it were the states are you talking like 100k type or 1million a year earners?
I want a neighbourhood I could fit into more comfortably, possibly buy a property in if we liked it.

Electronics?
Does that include laptop?

I will look into the sites you suggested!

[Marylizah]

St Cloud is way closer to the million dollar mark than the 100 000 dollar mark.

Your laptop will probably work fine if you get a plug adapter. Things made for travel (electric razors, computers, stuff like that) is usually fine. It's things like fridges, washing machines, vacuum cleaners, clock radios, dvd players, that don't transfer. Check appliances: if they say they take 110 or 220, you're fine.

[Shiloh]

Good to know, we are not multimillionaires.
And I am not the chanel wearing type

I wouldn't be moving appliances, european ones are so much better anyhow!

[Marylizah]

So true, they're smaller, too!

[Shiloh]

Can you get English TV?
How are the schools?

[Marylizah]

Don't have much time, will write more on Monday, but:

English channels I can get (almost) free on my cable/internet/phone combo:

CNN
Al Jazeera English
BBC World
Sky news (I think)

There's one cartoon channel.

Schools:

That's a whole can of worms. What are your requirements? Vaxxes are required here-- D, T, and Polio. There are no exemptions for those three, all others are optional.

Will address the school issue more on Monday.

[Shiloh]

Vaccination is not a big deal the kids are vaxxed from going to public school and our travelling. The schedual might be different will have to look into that oh the list is long and growing.

My only real AP concerns now that I think about it would be how safe is the food? Is the dairy hormone and antiboitic free? I don't think we'll be having any more children, cosleeping...lol with the price of some of the Paris housing you'd think every Parisian family has to

Schools - do they wear uniforms?

Finding friends hard, is it better to look for expats or will locals befriend you?

I haven't really watched tv much in the last month (maybe 2 hours total all news) but I was thinking oh if I am stuck in the winter with the kids, alone at night, I will need internet and maybe some english tv distraction!

Money = what is expensive what is cheap? My friend who lives in Paris says our American brands ( I am in Canada but same dif) are much cheaper here. I am not the most brand concious person. So if addidas is $50 bucks here and $100 euros that's okay as long as there are affordable running shoes if not tell me what to bring!

Children's clothing?
Do they wear uniforms to school?

How cold are the winters? (Canadian remember how many inches or feet of snow, what is the coldest it gets?

Strollers, I will be coming with a 2 year old, I have a great German backpack I can put my four year old in still, but will probably think of bringing a stroller, or buying one there. Are the streets, subways stroller friendly?

Car Seats, I should only have one child who must be in a car seat when we move, Is it best to think about buying one when we get there? Are the rules much different?

Medical Care, Dental Care - how hard is it to find a doctor? I'm a little more complicated medically (I test positive for things I end up not to have..) but no one has anything critical like athsma anymore. (I did end up once in a hospital in Albertville while travelling over a decade ago, it was a great hosptial)

Household help. I know about aupairs, demipairs, but what about casual help? I am going without the husband. Is it easy to get help if let's say I got a nasty flu, and couldn't really get around to cleaning the house for two weeks, or needed some casual babysitting?

And of course this question is from the kids - eurodisney.... what's it like?

[IsaFrench]

car seats; you'll also need a booster seat for your 5.5 years old

the law recently changed I think to make it longer (booster needed until 10 years old or the average size and weight of a 10 years old instead of 8 years old)

here's a link to local regulations
http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr...uto_sept08.pdf

+ you'll need a yellow (like the color of a yellow highlighter!) vest not in the boot but inside the car & near you + a triangle de signalisation (in case of an accident) => this law was recently implemented (summer 08)

we just rented a car today & it doesn't have these two items ; if we were stopped (even for something else) we would get a fine ....

casual help (house cleaning, help with homework, babysitting .....) ; is getting more readily available with more associations/semi private or private organisations employing people for "services à la personne" => you'll need to contact your bank (I think, haven't done it yet myself) to find out how to acquire "chèques emploi services" which are a way to pay for these casual jobs whilst cutting a lot of red tape for yourself as an employer of someone else ...

only very posh private schools still have uniforms (my own school, religious, medium-ly posh only stopped having uniforms in the late 70')

about food, there are organic food shops nearly everywhere nowadays & supermarkets are all joining in and trying to poach customers by offering the basics in organic food

hope this helps ...

[Shiloh]

+ you'll need a yellow (like the color of a yellow highlighter!) vest not in the boot but inside the car & near you + a triangle de signalisation (in case of an accident) => this law was recently implemented (summer 08)

what a neat idea!

only very posh private schools still have uniforms (my own school, religious, medium-ly posh only stopped having uniforms in the late 70')

good to know I was thinking of brining the regular amount of clothes for the boys and then thought oh crap if they have uniforms...then I will have too many clothes

hope this helps ...

It's all wonderful thanks!!!

[Marylizah]

The food in France (IMHO!) is better than in the US. No genetically modified food, it is easy to get organic even in large supermarket chains.

As the PP noted, no school uniforms.

Hiring casual help is possible, but as the PP noted, the easiest way to do it is to have cheques emploi service ready to go, and the name of an association to call when you need the help (you can get this info at the mairie).

Strollers: for your two-year-old, get a light and sturdy umbrella stroller. The Maclarens are the best-- they hold up so well. I'm guessing you can find one used before you go. You can get on and off transport with a stroller, but there are lots of stairs and it's a pain. But also a necessity-- there's lots of walking.

Weather-- winter compared to any part of Canada will be a breeze. We have the lovely Gulf Stream that keeps us nice and temperate. It's rare to go below 0 degrees Celsius (and it would only go one or two degrees below, not more!). Snow is pretty rare, although it snowed a good bit last year, apparently. In all my previous years it never snowed more than once or twice per winter, and would melt pretty quickly.

Finding friends: uh, the French are not very outgoing as a rule and it can be very hard to make friends. Look into joining Message (Mothers Support Group) which has tons of activities all over the Paris region.

Money: everything is expensive! Only half joking. Things are much more expensive here. Especially clothing and electronics.

Medical care: not hard to find a dr. Will you have a Carte Vitale? Will you be enrolled in the Securite Sociale? If not, I believe you will have to pay out of pocket for your medical expenses. That said, medical stuff is MUCH cheaper than in the US, (tho not sure how it compares to Canada).

And Disneyland Paris (as they call it! ) is pretty fun. Smaller than the Disney parks in the US. But fun!

[Shiloh]

I am not sure my 'status' for medical care, I am a British citizen therefore an eu status eligible but will probably come with temp insurance until I establish residency. What is a carte vitale?

[*theophane*]

hello again,
by bourgeois i meant conservative, elitist, and this is not based on money or income categories (not everyone owns, here), actually it all depends on the amount of education, culture, relations, how old money you are.
all these concepts are hard to explain in English.. just, google Bourgeois and reproduction sociale on Wikipedia if you have a chance.

about renting:
it is pretty hard to find someone willing to rent to foreigners at a normal price; the housing market is rigid here: even if you don't pay rent, you can't be expelled before at least 3 years. even more if you have kiddos. so owners protect themselves by renting more easily to French_French folks, best if they are civil servants and ask for un "garant"/"personne se portant caution pour vous" ie someone living in France and earning money in France who commits to paying for you if you can't.
security deposit is one month for unfurnished apts, 2 mo for furnished ones.
there are few apts on the market, because people keep their apts as long as possible given how hard it is to find something! if you want to avoid that, you can go to specialized real estate agencies (one month of rent is their fee!) who know expats' needs. this being said, people in le vesinet, chatou etc are more used to expats i guess.

carte vitale is THE ultimate card :-) it gives you the right to go the doctor, dentist, hospital and either pay nothing or pay only the "copay"
if you don't have it (it can take some time, eg i'm French born in a non EU country and i still haven't gotten it!!) then you just pay directly and the Securite Sociale reimburses your bills.

good luck!
oh and with kiddos, and living on french soil, you might be eligible for allocations familiales. with 4 kids, they will be high.

marylizah : i will definitely stop and say hi!
what happened with the WS? -if you have time of course)

[Shiloh]

I think I get the bougey thing, my one British side one half claims blue blood the other half blue collar..birth assigned classism is not something growing up on this side we really experience "much".

I have a really pushy French friend who I have no doubt can help me find a place, but it helps to plan ahead to know what will be easy, how much to pay upfront. Does a professional apartment finder come with any guarentee?

As far as the subsidy money goes I got this off wiki...
If I have three minor children with me.
I gather I'd get about 450 euros? A month?
wow.

What would I expect? What if I work part time?
*A mother's assistant they would really give me money or is that for a newborn?

Right to allocations and their amount are subject to income

Childcare
Aid to the family to hire a licensed mother's assistant (between 374,12€ and 748,24€/month).
Allocation for raising children at home (between 134,13€ and 530,72€/month)
Parental education allocation (between 256€ and 350,92€/month)
Children

Family allocations (between 119-152€/month, more for each child between the ages of 11-20)
Familial complement (155€/month)
Allocation for parental presence (39-47€/day + 101€/month)
Beginning of School Year

Allocation for the new school year (286,01€, paid in September)
Housing

Housing aid
Personalised housing aid
Prime for moving house (898-973€, once)

The single or separated parent

Single parent allocation (between 52,90€ and 748,20€)
Family support allocation (83,76€ - 111,68€/month)
Allocation for the education of a handicapped child (between 119,72€ - 1999,82€/month)
Allocation for handicapped adults (621,27€)

[IsaFrench]

carte vitale

... I should think that the Carte vitale is tied in with employment; as long as you start working a minimum of hours in your first month of employment here then you are eligible to be enrolled in the scheme

.... am not so sure about all the allowances from the CAF, do you mean that just starting to live here makes you elligible to receive them ? ... seems a tad generous from the system ....

[Marylizah]

Yes, I'm not sure you qualify for allocations or for the carte vitale, but when you get here it can't hurt to ask!

Getting work can be VERY difficult here, especially in these tough economic times. I would *not* count on being able to work.