Need help with the MIL (kind of long)**UPDATE** - Page 2

[FrolicingMama]

I don't think your letter was harsh. I think it was direct, assertive, and respectful. She has a pattern of violating your boundaries and therefore it was important for you to be direct and specific. I think you did a good job of stating the pattern you see, giving specific examples, talking about your feelings, and restating your boundaries. You also talked about her strengths and what you value about her.

It drives me crazy that in our culture we have more tolerance for people violating boundaries than we do for people setting and defending boundaries. I am a therapist and I talk to my clients about this all the time. Here's the example I use with them- If I punch you in the face and you say "hey you punched me in the face and that hurt. Don't do it again" and then I feel bad. It's not your fault I feel bad, it's my fault for violating a boundary. When you don't set and maintain boundaries it enables other people's unhealthy behaviors and prioritizes their feelings over yours. But here's the catch, no one ever says "thanks for not letting me violate your boundaries anymore. I'm so glad I can't do what ever I want to you without consequences now." There's always a fallout, but hopefully she will come around. I'm a big believer in the idea that we teach others how they can treat us. I've played this role in my family a lot. Usually it's pretty unpleasant at first and then people start to interact with me in a better way. So hang in there. I think it ok to do what someone else said and acknowledge that it must have been hard to get that letter, but don't negate the boundary by apologizing.

[Emmeline II]

My MIL kept asking to hold her (not asking me, but asking the midwives) I didn't discuss my MIL with the midwives beforehand because I didn't think there would be any reason to. Well, my daughter was barely 15 minutes old when they took her out of my arms and gave her to my MIL...who was in another room.

Um, where's the letter to you mws? My midwives ASKED if it was ok to take my child to weigh and would never havetaken my child to another room for my MIL to hold (who happened to be there accidentally because dh didn't have time to move the carseat for ds and no one thought to just give her our car keys).

[zoebird]

i think it's clear and not shaming. you are asserting what has hurt and angered you in the past, given an inoccuous example (dishes), and made a specific request about the upcoming birth.

i agree that i would be livid with my MIL for doing such a thing. but, there's another person to speak to about it--your DH. at the birth center, he could have told his mother "no" and asked her to wait outside. it's as much his failing as it is hers.

for this birth, i also agree that you should not call her when in labor. at the birth of our son, we did not tell our parents we were in labor. we didn't tell them about the birth until we were ready later the day of. that is, hawk was born in th emiddle of the night. we had family bonding time, and went to bed because we were all tired. when we woke, we called them.

so, there's another angle for you to cover.

[skylarsmom08]

I let my husband read the letter and asked him if I was out of line...he said maybe a little bit but he understands. He said he's not picking sides (because he knows how his mom is) but he has asked me to just come to him in the future and let him talk to her.
I kind of like that, just because talking to her is like talking to a wall (that is a few bricks short) but I don't know if he'll actually tell her things.
Oh well, after her email to him (I updated my OP) I think our communication is going to be pretty limited..she can say goodbye to spending the night every weekend.

[billikengirl]

Originally Posted by skylarsmom08

I let my husband read the letter and asked him if I was out of line...he said maybe a little bit but he understands. He said he's not picking sides (because he knows how his mom is) but he has asked me to just come to him in the future and let him talk to her.
I kind of like that, just because talking to her is like talking to a wall (that is a few bricks short) but I don't know if he'll actually tell her things.
Oh well, after her email to him (I updated my OP) I think our communication is going to be pretty limited..she can say goodbye to spending the night every weekend.

Your husband "picked a side" when he married you. Sorry, I can't let him off the hook this easily. When his mom does things that are WRONG, his responsibility is to back you up. I agree that he can handle the communication with her going forward, but he can't weasel out of setting boundaries and enforcing them by saying "oh I'm not taking sides, this is between you two girls." Uh uh.

I agree with you, if she can't be respectful, then she has no place in your life.

I would just loooooove to know what she thinks you being "put in your place" entails. :

[jecombs]

Originally Posted by billikengirl

Your husband "picked a side" when he married you. Sorry, I can't let him off the hook this easily. When his mom does things that are WRONG, his responsibility is to back you up. I agree that he can handle the communication with her going forward, but he can't weasel out of setting boundaries and enforcing them by saying "oh I'm not taking sides, this is between you two girls." Uh uh.

:

Your DH's primary loyalty should be to you and the family the two of you have created. He needs to tell his Mom that you are already "in your place" as his wife. I'm sorry if it will be difficult for him say and difficult for her to hear... but his primary alligence should be to you.

My DH agreed a long time ago that he would handle issues with his side of the family, and I would deal with mine. Our marriage comes first. This works well, so no one becomes the evil daughter- or son-in-law. It also keeps our extended families from manipulating us against each other.

[smeep]

You've gotten great advice so far in regards to handling your MIL but I wanted to say that I am livid for you over what she did at your DD's birth! I have never had THAT happen to me but I have a very strained relationship with my "family" (we don't get along well, most notably my mother and I...it's an incredibly long story with lots of pain and trauma). But you NEED to move past what happened. It's okay to be hurt, and she may very well never apologize for it. But even if she did, it may not make much of a difference. Once the hurt has set in, it's hard to completely erase. It's a matter of moving on for the sake of this birth. If you can work through it so it doesn't negatively affect this birth. I became pregnant last year (but lost the baby) and decided not to have my family at the birth due to where our relationship was at the time. If I were to get pregnant tomorrow, considering where we are now (better than a year ago, but still not good), I would tell them point-blank: we get family counseling and IF I feel better around them then we may look into having them at the birth. But they will NOT be there if nothing changes. They were at DS's birth and were amazing, and it's hard to imagine them not being there, but my fears and emotions from what happpened in the years since may very well affect me in any future births. And the way I feel now would affect me whether or not they're there. So I know I need to move past it on MY end, as should you. We don't have to forgive or forget, but simply work on healing and setting it aside. What happened has already happened. The only thing we can do is give our babes the best possible births, however that needs to be done. In your case she clearly cannot be there, but YOU need to work on your pain so it doesn't affect you when you give birth.

Oh, and disconnecting the doorbell and turning off phones might not be a bad idea, so no matter who happens to show up, you won't hear it and be worried that it's her.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by skylarsmom08

I let my husband read the letter and asked him if I was out of line...he said maybe a little bit but he understands. He said he's not picking sides (because he knows how his mom is) but he has asked me to just come to him in the future and let him talk to her.
I kind of like that, just because talking to her is like talking to a wall (that is a few bricks short) but I don't know if he'll actually tell her things.
Oh well, after her email to him (I updated my OP) I think our communication is going to be pretty limited..she can say goodbye to spending the night every weekend.

Other posters already said it, but I'll reiterate that he already "picked a side". He got married.

If my MIL behaved in such an outrageous way as to crash my birth and take my newborn baby, and then told her son to "put me in my place" when I called her on it next time around, dh would definitely have to "pick sides"...because I wouldn't have her in my home again without a heartfelt apology for her complete lack of respect for my person, home and boundaries.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by FrolicingMama

It drives me crazy that in our culture we have more tolerance for people violating boundaries than we do for people setting and defending boundaries. I am a therapist and I talk to my clients about this all the time. Here's the example I use with them- If I punch you in the face and you say "hey you punched me in the face and that hurt. Don't do it again" and then I feel bad. It's not your fault I feel bad, it's my fault for violating a boundary. When you don't set and maintain boundaries it enables other people's unhealthy behaviors and prioritizes their feelings over yours. But here's the catch, no one ever says "thanks for not letting me violate your boundaries anymore. I'm so glad I can't do what ever I want to you without consequences now." There's always a fallout, but hopefully she will come around. I'm a big believer in the idea that we teach others how they can treat us. I've played this role in my family a lot. Usually it's pretty unpleasant at first and then people start to interact with me in a better way. So hang in there. I think it ok to do what someone else said and acknowledge that it must have been hard to get that letter, but don't negate the boundary by apologizing.

: I couldn't have said it better.

Originally Posted by billikengirl

Your husband "picked a side" when he married you. Sorry, I can't let him off the hook this easily. When his mom does things that are WRONG, his responsibility is to back you up. I agree that he can handle the communication with her going forward, but he can't weasel out of setting boundaries and enforcing them by saying "oh I'm not taking sides, this is between you two girls." Uh uh.

I just wanted to third or fourth that sentiment. Your husband has to pick a side in this instance. You got married and have a family, I don't know how much clearer the side he should be on needs to be. I think it's also wiser for each spouse to deal with their own parents when it comes to these kinds of things. The amount of ill will the parents feel towards their child is usually less than towards the spouse.

I can absolutely relate to your issues with your MIL. I'm just glad mine lives three states away and we can easily put them off. We're always very vague when it comes to EDD and don't call them until the baby's already born.

I have issues with our culture's understanding of birth in this regard. I realize that a new baby is an exciting thing for everyone and that grandparents are important, but how exactly does that mean that all those people are entitled to hold the baby so soon after birth? I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this all - hopefully things will work out in the end.

[laohaire]

If he's "not picking sides" that's tantamount to picking his mother over you.

I call BS. Even the Bible says a man has to leave his parents and cleave to his wife.

[skylarsmom08]

I think I worded my last post wrong. My husband did say he's not picking sides, but as far as we're concerned he's definitely on "my side". He agrees that everything in my letter was true, the only thing he said is that it probably wasn't good to write in a letter because it reads harsher than maybe what I intended. He meant he wasn't taking sides on the back and forth between us. He said she needs to talk to me about it. I have no issues with my husband on this one. He just ignores her on the "put her in her place" comment (There is no point talking to this woman...I wish I could adequately explain that)
I love that she thinks he can "put me in my place". Where's my PLACE exactly??? :

[pjs]

Guess who's not getting invited to meet the baby asap?

No seriously, dh and I had a very similar issue with mil and boundaries. It only got worse. And yes, we were dealing with it in the third trimester of our last pregnancy. I know its easier for DH to ignore her comments, but everytime he ignores it he is telling his mom it is ok for her to say things like that. He needs to address each and every comment- what happens when your kids are old enough to hear MIL say such things about you- what message is dh sending your kids (and you) then?!

[billikengirl]

Originally Posted by skylarsmom08

I think I worded my last post wrong. My husband did say he's not picking sides, but as far as we're concerned he's definitely on "my side". He agrees that everything in my letter was true, the only thing he said is that it probably wasn't good to write in a letter because it reads harsher than maybe what I intended. He meant he wasn't taking sides on the back and forth between us. He said she needs to talk to me about it. I have no issues with my husband on this one. He just ignores her on the "put her in her place" comment (There is no point talking to this woman...I wish I could adequately explain that)
I love that she thinks he can "put me in my place". Where's my PLACE exactly??? :

He may not be obligated to carry messages between you and his mother, but he is obligated to make sure your family's wishes are honored about birth and personal boundaries. By saying he "won't take sides on the back and forth" is he saying that the message of "respect our birth space and that means not barging in" is only coming from you? That would be leaving you out on a limb a bit, wouldn't it? Isn't that the same as him telling her "well it's OK with ME if you do XYorZ but the wife says no." I don't see that as being on your side, so I hope that's not what he means by that.

[kimiij]

I think your letter was fine. It probably embarrassed her but it was necessary as she has repeatedly refused to follow your wishes in regards to your family. I wouldn't go chasing her down either.

I would also be wary of your husband speaking to your mom for you. What if he doesn't say everything that needs to be said? Or what if he caves in? I think that if she really wants to talk about it then the THREE of you should be there to discuss. He can say the bottomline statements with you giving the supporting discussion.

[fwlady]

I think that your MIL staying every weekend may give her the feelings of having the entitlement attitude. I wonder if this was one way for her to continue on this path. I think that stricter boundaries would be a good way to get on with her. She babysits at her house when you need time with DH. I would almost find a different babysitter, and everyone visits her on visits. You visit HER at her house for dinner once a month, almost like scheduled, once a week if you/she would prefer. You could bring over a dish, of course, to contribute. I know she works for DH, but that is business. Your social relationship should be limited. She gets to see her son at work. She can see the children when it is good for everyone twice a month; at the most once a week. She doesn't have added entitlements, like being informed when your labor starts, or when the baby was born, until you WANT her to come over.

I think that letting DH know what the new boundaries are, will help a lot too. Maybe their family is just so intertwined, he doesn't know that this doesn't happen in all families. I know some cultures and families are, but it doesn't usually harm relationships, or mean that they are there to take the newly born baby from the momma. I thought most mothers/MILs come over and cook dinner and help clean the house. And, most don't do that even.

I know that mothers can't detach themselves from their children, and it extends to the grandchildren. But, you aren't keeping her from her grandkids. You want your birth to be what it should, which is a private nuclear family event. One of which I don't believe needs to be shared by MW/OBs even, if that is possible and safe for mom/baby. Some aren't comfortable about that though. Would she attend a pap smear with you? Of course not! Then, why do mothers/mils think they can be at the births????

Now, I DID have my MIL at my 2nd birth/our 1st. DH wasn't there, because of his trucking job. She was there to video tape it for him. She would have been there at the labor, while I was with the doula, probably could have saved myself the money and had her as my doula, but she was fine with us telling her that we would call her when we went to the hospital. This was guised over as we didn't know how long it could take, and I didn't think that the doula wanted us both there at her house. My brother actually took me to her, and she took me to the doula. I didn't know she wanted to be there for the whole thing.

Then, after #4, I said something about DH not doing birth, and she said, "I would have been there for you." So, I wondered later if she was hurt that I never asked her. But, that was a UC and I was afraid she would use it against me in court, since there was some fear before that that she would try to get my kids, when we left state and she was so mad about that.

Asking permission for things like that may not be in her nature. I wish for you that it would be. So, you have to set them. And, you may need to be sure that your DH understands your stance, and you will probably need to be sure that you or he and you let her know what the expectations are.

I think your biggest issue, is too much time with her. Cut down on the time, and you cut down on the frustrations. Not in a mean way, because you are upset, but because it will work better. Make sure she knows it isn't a punishment. You want a healthier and better relationship with her, and sometimes that means limiting contact. Kymberli