I am thinking gentle dicipline is over rated

[zonapellucida]

Without the proper discipline they should have gotten when they were younger they have become little tyrants thinking the world revolves around them. Older children included all becasue I didn't want ot damage their little psyches. Anyone else experience this?

Anyo0ne else use some other method of dicipline/ uprearing? (this is so anit MDC but I have been trying this for a long time and the experiment is over)

[Cujobunny]

Well I sure don't have any advice on how to turn around the behaviour of 9 children... but please don't slag gentle discipline for those that are here to learn more about it, when what you are really down on is the complete lack of discipline!

Gentle discipline does not mean letting kids do what they want for fear of "damaging their psyches". It's still discipline, teaching, redirecting, helping children to learn the proper way to act in society and respect themselves and each other, it's just doing it in a respectful and non hurtful way And yes that is totally possible.

[allgirls]

no. I am not experiencing this at all. My children have their "tyrant moments" but it has nothing to do with discipline, it's usually developmentally appropriate behaviour etc.

Can explain your difficulty a little more and also, how old are these children and what difficulties are you having with each specific child. Maybe we can work through more effective ways to discipline them that aren't difficult.

Allgirls.

Eta..I just read in your title that you have 9 children. I'm outta my league here..lol

[Dar]

I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?

[allgirls]

[QUOTE=Dar;14184088]I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

[QUOTE]

[savithny]

Weeellll.....

I think that a lot of people seem to conflate "Gentle Discipline" with "Consensual Living" around here.

But I personally don't think you have to be completely CL and a complete martyr to practice a gentle form of discipline. I know I am not at all CL, and many of the CL techniques that I've seen recommended (and had recommended to me) would have been very developmentally inappropriate for my children, especially my oldest.

I think if you start digging, a lot of people at MDC are fully committed to gentle discipline, in that they do not use physical punishments or shaming, but they realize that children's psyches *need* discipline.

Children are baby primates. They are born into social groups, and their very first instincts are to observe the other people in their social group to start figuring out what the rules are and how their social group works. Babies an hour old pay so much attention to faces that they can mimic facial expressions. They aren't inherently bad, but they aren't inherently *good* either. They are waiting for more information, and they will learn to behave from watching the responses of adults to them and to each other.

IMO, one of a parent's most important jobs is to help our little baby monkeys figure out how to learn the social rules of the monkey troop. We need to clearly communicate what behaviors are and are not okay, and when they are okay, and WHY they are okay. And you can do that without hitting, or verbally abusing, or shaming.

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by Dar

I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.
?

I agree.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by Dar

I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?

Yes, this. Gentle Discipline isn't a one size fits all thing, don't let anyone make you believe that. Take the stuff that works for you and leave the stuff that doesn't.

[Breeder]

Originally Posted by Dar

I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?

[boheime]

Originally Posted by savithny

Weeellll.....

I think that a lot of people seem to conflate "Gentle Discipline" with "Consensual Living" around here.

But I personally don't think you have to be completely CL and a complete martyr to practice a gentle form of discipline.

I just wanted to comment on this, as I think so many people have a misconception of CL. If you are being a martyr, you are not living consensually. CL does not mean that you rearrange everything so that your kids do whatever they want while you suffer. It means that you work together and treat everyone like a respected person so that everyone's needs are met.

[the_lissa]

I agree that is true CL. However, on this site, it is often the former. It gives cl a bad name.

[fresh_veggie]

I don't know much about gentle discipline (no kids here yet) but I do remember being hit and yelled at by my parents in my own childhood, and I really, really feel that more would've been accomplished if they'd used words instead of hands.

From my understanding, I don't believe that "gentle discipline" is letting your kids rule the world at your own expense. Balance and middle ground are essential to all things in life. Best of luck.

[PikkuMyy]

Given that this is the GD forum, people are unlikely to discuss how they use other forms of discipline.

Aside from that, I teach children with developmental disabilities who often have very severe behavior issues, are nonverbal, do not understand spoken language, engage in self-injurious behavior, are aggressive towards others, and are often in a stage of development like that of a young toddler even when older. I manage to help them learn and grow using GD while at the same time teaching them new ways to behave and express themselves.

So I figure if I can do it with them, it can be done with any typical child.

[LilyGrace]

Gentle discipline is NOT no discipline. Each family tailors it to work for them. In our house, it is understood that I am alpha. I make sure things get done, rules get followed, and respect happens. That doesn't mean I beat it into anyone, only that my attitude sets the stage for what's going to happen. Am I flexible? Sure.......to a point. But I'm also content with repeating myself as often as it takes for the child to stop arguing and just do it. Case today - The Kid went out to play at 10:30. Summer rule is that we check in at 12:30, usually have a bite of lunch, then out until the two other check in times, 4 and 6:30, where he's in for the evening.
From 10:20-10:30, he presented every reason why he should stay out until 1:30 and check in then:
-he won't be hungry (he will, he ate breakfast at 8 and we repeat this same thing every day)
-it takes too long to get home (he can plan better)
-it's too short of a time

and so on. Which is great, I'm glad he's thinking about it, and if he comes in at 12:30 and isn't hungry, he's free to come back in later when he is, or take a snack out with him. But the rule stands that he checks in at 12:30.


We also do different rules for different ages. And I'm not worried about damaging anyone's psyches. Disappointment that is just is something that is good to experience, boundaries make for confidence. I'm not going to tiptoe around and do everything except what I should be - teaching and guiding.

[Quinalla]

Gentle discipline doesn't mean no discipline. My parents mostly used gentle discipline (they didn't know it had a name, just went with what made sense to them) with my siblings and me and it was very effective, much more effective than the one time I was spanked or the few other times another method was used.

And like anything, you have to make it work for your family and just because someone on here says something is or is not GD, doesn't necessarily mean that is true I disagree with people on these forums quite often myself but I still keep coming here because I learn a lot from others' advice and experiences, even when I sometimes disagree.

The book I have enjoyed the most that really helped me get it was Parent Effectiveness Training. That book explains that it doesn't have to be either the parent wins or the children win, instead everyone can win. Sure, it's not foolproof or perfect, but it really helps change your attitude about parenting, not seeing it as us vs. them or someone has to win and someone has to lose and gives you some good real life examples and good strategies. It's again pretty much the way my parents did things, just they did it because it made sense.

[kittywitty]

I hope this was just a rant on a bad day.

GD is not letting your kids do whatever. That's neglect or permissive parenting, not GD.

[bronxmom]

Little children DO think the world revolves around them. That is the developmental stage they are at. Our job is to work with that and understand it while teaching children about how others feel; how our actions impact others; etc. There's a reason 90% of 2 year olds engage in certain behaviors regardless of what discipline method is used. It's developmental. We need to work with the stages of kids' development.

Alfie Kohn makes a great point in Unconditional Parenting that traditional discipline methods - including many "gentle" methods - focus a kids' attention on how their actions impact "themselves" rather than others. For example, kids a hits kids b and gets punished (time-out, spanking, loss of privileges, etc). Kid a learns "if I hit, I get hurt." This might make kid a hit less or it might just make him more sneaky or he might still do it because he hasn't developed impulse control. But he learns nothing about how it makes kid b feel to be hit and what he could do to make amends. So it's actually traditional punishment-based methods that teach kids to be self-centered, not the other way around.

Also, I think we definitely need to be able to set some boundaries and limits - our own personal ones being key. We can't be doormats and should express when we need a break ourselves or do not want to be talked to in a certain way, etc. However, I think parents would do well to think about whether their requests are reasonable and be willing to change their mind or shift course if necessary. This goes along with seeing your child as someone who could have a valid argument.

So, in the example given above, where the kid wants to stay out until 1:30, I personally would re-consider the request (assuming the kid's old enough to be unsupervised/out and about for 3 hours - if he is for 2, I assume 3 wouldn't be qualitatively different). It seems he has a valid argument that 3 hours allows more time to develop his activities, etc. If he gets hungry before 1:30 he can always come back earlier. What about saying "you know, I think you make some valid points but I still have concerns about you being gone so long - how about we try it for a couple days and see how it goes; or, could you check in with a phone call at the mid-point as a compromise". Unless there's a really compelling reason, then I don't see the point of sticking to a rule/limit/boundary just for the sake of sticking to it - it seems arbitrary and I'm sure seems so to kids. Note: I'm only using this example to illustrate my general point. There may be some compelling reason said kid needs to check back in 2 hours rather than 3; but it wasn't presented, it was just given as an example of the importance of sticking to limits, which I don't really buy.

I've seen plenty of kids raised by non-gentle methods who are self-centered, uncaring, etc. Also, btw, I think that are society is really intolerant of kids in general and that makes it harder b/c a lot of regular kid behavior is seen as so terrible.

[jennpn]

This seems like a pretty generalized statment. I think it has more to do with your specifit interpretation of GD. We are very strict with our son. If he doesn't use his manners he doesn't get it, if he doesn't use a nice tone, he doesn't get it. We model respect and we earn respect. The bounderies are very clear in our family and they are enforced 100% of the time. Before I begin sounding like a drill sergent however I can say that we also have a home with no yelling, no violence and no intimidation. Benjamin (2) does believe the world revolves around him...becuase he is 2 but he won't forever. He will learn that the world may not revolve around him but he is a very important part of it. I would be shocked if my children grow up to be what you described. I can get much more out of him now with kindness, humor and respect then I ever would be able to with intimidation and violence. 9 children is a lot to handle and perhaps there are more specific issues you are dealing with that others could give you advice on in a more firm GD mannor. ?

[jeliphish]

We definitly practice GD but have boundries and rules. Like the above poster...she doesn't ask politely, she does not get it....if she whines, she does not get it. If she is overly tired and seems to be posessed by deamons, we take a time out until she is able to act nicely.

[heartmama]

Just a reminder:

Welcome to Gentle Discipline. This forum has a specific aim: to help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children. Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children.

Parents are welcome to discuss a spectrum of GD approaches, however we do request that all threads focus on GD. We cannot host threads which focus on practicing non-GD methods.