S/O: Atheists/Agnostics & the Pledge of Allegiance

[Valkyrie9]

I noticed that some of you who answered on the other thread mentioned leaving out "one nation under God" when you say the pledge.

Speaking for myself, I have never said the pledge. Firstly, the sect I used to belong to said that you shouldn't pledge your allegiance to anyone but God. After I left it and realized I was an atheist, I decided not to say it because I don't believe in pledging my allegiance to something I have no direct influence on. I mean, the government does TONS of stuff I have disagreed with and will continue to do so. Should I pledge blind allegiance to an institution that I don't actually feel that level of committment to? I don't think so.

Do more folks modify or avoid the pledge?

So my connection here to this forum is by way of wondering if more atheists/agnostics might take this route than the faithful do. Conversely, if you are a person of faith and you don't say the pledge, can you make a connection between the two?

[whateverdidiwants]

Originally, there was no "under God" in the pledge. It was added in the 1950's during McCarthyism. I've taught my dd the original version that says "one nation, indivisible".

[EFmom]

I don't say the pledge, period. If you read up on the history of the pledge, it's none too inspiring. The god thing bothers me, but there's so much more that is wrong with the pledge.

I think it is stupid in concept. I don't pledge allegiance to a symbolic piece of cloth.

Reciting it in schools smacks of the Little Red Guard to me. School children have no idea what the pledge means or why they are made to rattle it off every morning.

Dh is a high school teacher and has gotten into more than one argument with the administration as he doesn't require his homeroom students to recite it. Now, it is settled law that public schools cannot require students to say it. That doesn't stop administrators from trying. Instead of thanking dh for keeping them from being named in a lawsuit, the administrators try to make him force the kids to say it periodically.

[Valkyrie9]

Originally Posted by EFmom

Instead of thanking dh for keeping them from being named in a lawsuit, the administrators try to make him force the kids to say it periodically.

That's purely ridiculous. You might as well be mandating that kids pray to the flag. Isn't it somewhat similar?

[kangamitroo]

i don't say the pledge. i think that it is a fascist practice, and particularly unconscionable that we ask children to recite something before they are even old enough to understand the full meaning of what they are saying.
the pledge in the context of schools is a kind of brainwashing to me, and that is unacceptable.

not that i do not know i am lucky to live in the US for many reasons, but my allegiance is to my conscience, which compels me to work for peace and the requisite justice for all. i can't support endeavors of the govt that works against peace and justice for all.

when i was a teen, my school did not have the pledge--until the start of the Gulf War. many fellow students remained silent to protest the false patriotism that this new custom represented.

[lilyka]

i am not an athiest (I am a Christian) and I don't say the pledge. I don't know...it creeps me out. everyone standing and chanting....at a flag. Anyway, I don't say it.

[Thao]

I say the pledge leaving out the "under God" part, and have taught my daughter to do the same. To me, the pledge is a pledge to the ideals in the declaration of independence on which our country was established, not a pledge to any current administration or political policy. And I can totally get behind principles like "justice and liberty for all", KWIM?

Yes, I know that our country was built on terrible injustice to the native peoples, unecessary wars, etc etc. There isn't a country in the world that hasn't done awful things when they had the power to do them. But to me, the failure to live up to our stated ideals doesn't mean the ideals have less power.

But the "under God" part just shouldn't be there. IMO it implies that anyone who does not believe in God is not a True American and that is plain wrong.

[~Boudicca~]

Originally Posted by whateverdidiwants

Originally, there was no "under God" in the pledge. It was added in the 1950's during McCarthyism. I've taught my dd the original version that says "one nation, indivisible".

You know, this is interesting. I remember when I went to Catholic school as a little kid and we said, "one nation, indivisible." But when I transferred to a public school it was, "one nation, under God, indivisible, etc." This is in the 80's. Weird.

[eclipse]

I just don't say it. I don't think my kids even know it, to be honest. DS1 went to school for two years, but they didn't say it there. Setting the under god part aside, I'm with those who think it's a little creepy - I think any pledge to anything should be given 100% purely and freely and, really? Only needs to be given once. Not every morning before circle time, or at a baseball game, or a city council meeting, or anyplace else.

[lilyka]

good point about pledging only once.

[Sailor]

I'm an atheist, and I don't say it at all. I used to say it in high school and grade school, but I didn't really think about deeper meanings behind it then. It was just a rote routine to which I never gave much thought.

The God part bothers me, as an atheist. But, also, I'm an anarchist. So, the whole pledging my allegiance to one country or one flag (what the heck?!) is not part of my value system. I'm a citizen of the universe.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Valkyrie9

That's purely ridiculous. You might as well be mandating that kids pray to the flag. Isn't it somewhat similar?

I think so. I always said 'amen' after the pledge when I was a child, it felt like a damn prayer. I didn't pray otherwise, being an atheist, but it totally seemed like a prayer.

[pumpkin]

It hasn't come up in years. When it did, I skip the 'under god' part, but I don't slow down so I end up out of synch with others.

DD can choose to participate or not. I will explain that I believe the pledge as taught in school is unconstitutional.

[zinemama]

Ha. I can't even imagine what would happen if the schools here in Crunchytown decided to institute saying the pledge. It simply doesn't happen. Would inspire a full-scale revolt. That kind of thing is for Texans, not us!

That said, when I was a teacher in Md it used to come in over the intercom and the kids were supposed to stand up and say it. I didn't. Neither did they.

[Valkyrie9]

Originally Posted by zinemama

That kind of thing is for Texans, not us!

That totally made me snort.