Why NOT the eye gunk? - Page 2

[sugarpop]

ok so I asked my midwife about this, and although I trust her (kind of), I still have my doubts. I may go with my instinct and refuse the drops but here was her opinion.

She said if I was planning on birthing in water then I would want the eye drops in that situation because you don't know what is in the water. UM can STD's live in water? if so what is keeping us all from getting these when we shower? or do you think she was just concerned about bacteria in general? If it is any other type of bacteria they can treat it after the fact? Is that what you mamas are saying? That "preventative" isn't necessary and with the show of a medical infection the treatment is as effective as the preventative would have been?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Spiralshell

I live and will give birth in NY, where the eye ointment is not optional. You cannot refuse it, even based on religious objection (because it is not a vaccination).
http://nyvic.org/nyvic/law/vitamin-k.htm
Refusal of either the eye goop or the Vitamin K will result in the hospital calling Child Protective Services (CPS).
So as much as I would like to skip it... the babe will get it. (I plan to wipe as much of it out of his eyes as I can as soon as I can though!!)

Ok so what happens when CPS get the phone call? they come storming down there and remove the baby? I am confused, what is the follow through on these threats? And what right is it of the government....oooo now I am angry!

[Asiago]

I went on a L&D tour and the nurse urged moms to keep baby in the room with you, she encouraged the parents not to let the baby go to the nursery. We were on the subject of avoiding infections. She also noted to keep all cell phones out of the room, they're just germ magnets.
I sanitize my cell phone pretty regularly though, but I thought she made a great point.

Per the erythromycin or whatever each hospital is administering now in the eyes, I find it yet another example of the indiscriminate use of antibiotics that's led to bacterial resistance.

[womenswisdom]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

She said if I was planning on birthing in water then I would want the eye drops in that situation because you don't know what is in the water.

Huh? What does she THINK is in the water? And would is be safe for you? I mean, what if you get out of the birth tub and have chlamydia?

Originally Posted by sugarpop

If it is any other type of bacteria they can treat it after the fact? Is that what you mamas are saying?

Yep

[kcparker]

Originally Posted by Spiralshell

I live and will give birth in NY, where the eye ointment is not optional. You cannot refuse it, even based on religious objection (because it is not a vaccination).
http://nyvic.org/nyvic/law/vitamin-k.htm
Refusal of either the eye goop or the Vitamin K will result in the hospital calling Child Protective Services (CPS).
So as much as I would like to skip it... the babe will get it. (I plan to wipe as much of it out of his eyes as I can as soon as I can though!!)

Yeah, and the people who issued the dictum in 1999 were so up on the current research that they were worried about C-H-I-A-M-Y-D-I-A (spelled that way twice). Ch-ch-ch-chia? Your child will grow green sprouts out of its eyes if you don't get this treatment.

I always found it odd that they do an STD screen at the start of the pregnancy, and if you are 'clean' at that point, they should trust you to know your own sexual history well enough to know if you have come in contact with a potential pathogen vector subsequent to that test. Geez, most people don't WANT their kids to go blind from a gonorrhea infection.

I also don't see why you couldn't try for a do a don't ask-don't tell with your HCP - it's not like eye goop police have hidden cameras and will know if baby didn't get dosed. Or, you can decline, come in with a stack of evidence-based support for not doing it, and tell them, "Go ahead and call CPS because I am sure they have nothing better to do with their time. I can show you and them good evidence for not doing this."

[Asiago]

SugarPop, you may wish to contact Barbara Harper, the founder of the water birth organization www.waterbirth.org

She's so helpful and responsive (try email).
As I recall also, when I listened to a podcast she gave on waterbirth (free on i-tunes) she noted that viruses and bacteria have far less chance of being transferred during a water birth. Although as I recall she doesn't really consider Strept B such a concern anyway (but I may be incorrect).

You may also wish to explain to her where you are birthing in water (home right?), or if you will have a new pool/tub with disposable liners, etc. I don't know if it will make a difference, but maybe just mention anyway.

I do wonder about the permanant hospital tubs though, how they are sanitized. Heck, you figure women are warned about pedicure tubs that are running water, apparently basins/foot baths that you dump out are easier to clean efficiently.

Sorry to get off track but just making a comparison.

[LianneM]

If there is a concern about the water, I can't imagine it'd be safe to birth in it - wouldn't the bacteria be able to travel into the woman's body after the baby is out and cause infection for her? If the water is that sketchy, I'd just stay out of it altogether.

Lianne (mama of 2 born at home in water, no eye gunk)

[fruitfulmomma]

If there is a concern about the water, I can't imagine it'd be safe to birth in it - wouldn't the bacteria be able to travel into the woman's body after the baby is out and cause infection for her? If the water is that sketchy, I'd just stay out of it altogether.

This. I haven't birthed in water but my 3rd birth was at a hospital with big tubs in the rooms and I was allowed to use the tub throughout labor after AROM, no problems. And my husband was with her in NICU and told them no eye gunk and they were fine with that.

[umbrella]

My dd2 was born overseas, and there are some different things which are standard. Some things they do automatically that Americans don't, and the reverse as well. The American advocate lady told all of of us to put in the request for the things that Americans typically do, and deny the things that Americans typically don't. That didn't make sense to me, since what if say, a usual vaccine there makes sense because the risk is much higher there, and that's where we are?

So I approached my OB to have a conversation about these things. When I got to the part about the eye gunk, she looked at me like that was a really weird question, and said that I don't have any STDs so why would I give the baby eye gunk. Then she got all serious, and asked me I felt I needed to be tested again. No. Just asking about it because it's standard in the U.S.

[S.Elise]

I would just add that they don't do this routinely in other rich countries. When I moved home to the US and got pregnant for the second time was the first I had ever heard about this.

If mom knows for sure she does not have the relevant diseases, I just don't see any reason this would be recommended, other than as another general "cover your a#$* even if it runs up costs and exposes people to unnecessary intervantions" doctor move.

[Unicorn75]

Declining eye goop here, based on above reasons of no STD's and don't want to hinder baby's sight in those first few minutes.

Will absolutely do VitK, as that is not anything to fiddle around with.

Will do rooming in and minimize contact with others. Also declining the whole stupid bath/low temperature/baby warmer thing.

As an aside, I was actually HORRIFIED one of my OB's last time around because we wanted to refuse the bath. She could not understand why I would not want the baby bathed. Silly me let her talk me out of it.:

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by mommy2two babes

This and also because antibiotics kill good as well as bad. Why would I kill all the good natural things that are supposed to be there colonizing thier eyes and eye lashes keeping other stuff in check. Especially for something that I don't have. I know the argurment that a woman might not know if her DH was being faithful and thats why I took a 10 second urine test rather than medicating my child unneccesarily.

My DH was with me, at work (confirmed by a paycheck lol), and military basic training during my pregnancy. I was sure he was clean. And told everyone this.

Originally Posted by Asiago;14191760}

Per the erythromycin or whatever each hospital is administering now in the eyes, [B

I find it yet another example of the indiscriminate use of antibiotics that's led to bacterial resistance.[/B]

Agreed



My doc had no problem with me refusing it. There was another doctor I saw at one point that looked upset and said, "But you don't want your baby to get an infection!!!" She was also the one that lectured me about refusing the Heb B vax...
It's standard because of the amount of women that have come into the ER without medical records on file. It's easier to just do a blanket thing to CYA than to try to search out medical records while the woman is in labor

[HappyMommy2]

My reasons:
1. I don't have those STD's
2. I think it is just plain mean, would you want a bunch of vaseline shoved in your eyes? It just doesn't jive with a gentle entrance into the world.

[jtrt]

We have declined prophylactic eye treatment with all of our babies. I decline because I do not have any STDs. Period. The ointment is for the prevention of gonorrhea-related blindness. No gonorrhea, no eye treatment.

Amy

[Norasmomma]

It's not necessary if the mother has no STDs and has been tested for them, they just do it as a "precautionary" treatment, in case you do.

I'm opting out for this baby, especially since I am having a c/s-there really is no reason to do it.

[Beeblebrox]

Unless I'm going to put goop in my newborns eyes daily, it doesn't even make sense to me to do it cause there might be other germs elsewhere. They are going to be exposed to germs. End of story. It's the world we live in. I've declined eye goop with both. One was born in a hospital and one was a water birth. I honestly wouldn't worry about it.

[sunnygir1]

I had my dd early, so we went to the hospital. She stayed in our room. I refused the eye ointment because a) I am against excessive use of antibiotics and b) I think it is vitally important for the baby and parents to connect in those first hours including being able to see one another.

I refused once, and they didn't ask again. The next day my Strep B swab came back positive, and they didn't push for antibiotics then either when I told them I didnt' want to.

[~Christina~]

I will refuse it because I don't have an STD, and I want my newborn baby to see clearly.

Pretty much sums up my reasons.

[cocoanib]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma

Because I don't have gonorrhea or chlamydia and I won't use medicine without a justification for it.

Originally Posted by AfricanQueen99

This. And I like to see those beautiful eyes without being all goo'd up.

Originally Posted by kcparker

It also interferes with their vision, which is pretty fuzzy and near-sighted to begin with. Why put one more barrier between you and your baby during that sensitive bonding time? Plus, it's been shown that if the baby does get an eye infection in the first weeks of life, they can just do antibiotics at the time that there's an actual indication for it, and the outcomes are still very good.

ITA

[Abraisme]

Originally Posted by Spiralshell

I live and will give birth in NY, where the eye ointment is not optional. You cannot refuse it, even based on religious objection (because it is not a vaccination).
http://nyvic.org/nyvic/law/vitamin-k.htm
Refusal of either the eye goop or the Vitamin K will result in the hospital calling Child Protective Services (CPS).
So as much as I would like to skip it... the babe will get it. (I plan to wipe as much of it out of his eyes as I can as soon as I can though!!)

My sister had a homebirth and then was transferred due to complications.. At the hospital she refused everything.. They did call CPS, who came out and pretty much just had to witness the fact that she knew what she was declining. They do not take your babies from you, they just document what you've done. You can refuse these things..

What you can't refuse is if they want to keep your baby in the NICU and you decide to check the baby out.. CPS will actually step in and make the baby stay in the hospital..