Finding a known donor who won't get "too attached"

[citygirl144]

Hi, we sadly found out tonight that our potential known donor is probably not going to do it - he is too nervous about getting too emotionally attached to our future kids and feeling unsure how to negotiate his non-parenting role. he is a straight man who is an old dear friend of mine. we are disappointed but totally respect his decision and also are glad to be clear from upfront. but it also makes me wonder- how does any known donor not get too attached? i would really love to hear people's thoughts and experiences on this. would it be easier with a queer man because he'd be more comfortable with non-traditional family arrangements? thanks in advance for sharing.

[megincl]

Well, I think that just like there are unknowns with unknown donors (beyond ALL the info you get), there are unknowns with known donors. You can talk things through, make agreements, make legal agreements, etc, but it's so very hard to make predictions in the area of emotions and attachment.

We wanted our donor to be involved and attached, but he lives on the other side of the country, so that put a clear boundary on things for us. That being said, he is way more attached, in love with, and a part of DS's life than we had expected. And it's a GOOD thing for us. Just not necessarily an expected thing. Our donor actually told us that he was afraid, for about the first year of Q's life, of letting himself fall fully in love with Q, because he knew how fierce that love would be. I don't think he could have known that prior to Q being born. It just happened.

What I do think you can do, is have tons of communication about the type of relationship that you want to have, and get out on the table your absolute non-negotiables. And then you have to be willing to keep revisiting the relationship and the intricacies that emerge. We still do that and DS is 6. It's constantly evolving, just like most relationships, it's just a much more complex one and one for which there aren't really any public models out there.

I'm happy to talk more about this or answer questions, as I know it's uncharted territory.

Be well,
megin

[citygirl144]

thanks so much for your thoughtful response. we are also open to attachment as long as there are boundaries- we don't want to co-parent with the KD -and i do agree that the level of honesty and open communication so far with this one potential donor has been such a great aspect of the whole process.
there are many reasons we want to go to KD route and a big one is cost (when thinking about buying frozen sperm for two babies)...but i am starting to wonder if between the testing and legal paperwork for a KD it almost evens out? i guess it all depends how long it takes to get pregnant....

[megincl]

At first cost was a big one for me, as I was indignant about paying for sperm. That has long since fallen by the wayside. I think that it was just the right way for US to make our family. That's not necessarily the case for everyone.

I think you're right on that really it's about communication. If you can create a relationship with amazing communication, I think you're set. But you have to trust in it and trust that you can make it through easy spots and hard spots.

And in the end, who knows whether it saved us money. First time around, maybe, as we got pregnant first try, but we also traveled to him (it was a vacation too, though! ).

This time around, we've tried I don't know how many times. It's saved us in that we can try a number of times each cycle when he comes to us. We've had to try other ways as well, though, so there have definitely been costs (shipping, IUIs). If you have access to local, free sperm, it is definitely great as you don't have to worry so much about timing.

All that being said, I don't know that I'd choose a known donor merely for the logistical bonus as there are SO many more aspects to having a KD that really do last a lifetime.

Good luck!
megin

[Raene]

I know what you mean...been there before. I asked a co-worker who is really sweet, gentle, and has his own kids. He was all for it, except that he made it be so complicated...he wanted to tell his kids, he wanted his kids to meet this one some day, he wanted to not have financial responsibility but still seemed to consider himself a parent there somehow.

I didn't like were that was going.

The donor we ended up with is a friend's husband. The friend is the one who volunteered him, actually. I was so shocked when they told us this (because I'd just asked if they knew anyone, never in a million years would I have thought they'd be the ones) that I cried in joy. How many wives would do this? Not many. Anyway, the donor made it clear he wanted NOTHING to do with the baby, no financial responsibility, and had us agree never to tell the baby who the donor is. We liked it this way b/c we don't want a 3rd parent. But I admit now it's been hard using a known donor. Things were fine at first and now it's become awkward, especially b/c his wife is due to have a baby this month as well. I feel weird and we've definitely lost our friendship in ways. We were never that close, but I feel like I can't even ask about her baby (looks, etc) without having her wonder if I'm comparing it to my own or something.

Personally I think I'd go with an unknown donor next time, if there was going to be a next time.

[FtMPapa]

Citygirl - find a known donor because it's right for you, or an unknown donor because it's right for you.

For me, the advantages of each and disadvantages of each were numerous. (I am sure I made a whole huge post about that on some thread in the past two years, so if you're really interested, find the old one.)

I made the decision once to go unknown, once to go known, and now I'm debating again. I do have to consider the cost carefully, but it is far from the only factor.

Do not kid yourself. The legal fees and medical tests do not balance out the cost of sperm. Perhaps if you were to get pregnant the first time you used sperm from a sperm bank you would equalize the costs, but really, the costs with known donors are in the $0 - 1000 range + (sometimes) travel expenses while a sperm bank will cost you close to $1000 every month.

Not that I'm at all bitter. I guess I better ramp up the search for a KD again again!

[Satori]

Originally Posted by FtMPapa

Do not kid yourself. The legal fees and medical tests do not balance out the cost of sperm. Perhaps if you were to get pregnant the first time you used sperm from a sperm bank you would equalize the costs, but really, the costs with known donors are in the $0 - 1000 range + (sometimes) travel expenses while a sperm bank will cost you close to $1000 every month.

Not that I'm at all bitter. I guess I better ramp up the search for a KD again again!

Holy cow! What are you using? 2-3 vials of PhD sperm? It shouldn't cost you over $500 mo for everything from OPK's to sperm to tracking software like fertility friend. If your having to do stuff like injectable's and U/S and stuff then yeah, your looking at $1000 a month but simple home ICI shouldn't cost more then about $500 cycle but then I just used college student sperm and not PhD sperm due to costs.

ETA: I have one child via ADI and one child the old fashioned way, the ADI was WAY cheaper then the court costs I had with the other child. I would never have a child via a relationship again simply due to court costs lol (well not just that but ADI was way cheaper and less stressful then court)

[citygirl144]

Satoroi, if you are open to sharing, do you mind explaining what you mean by "court costs"? Was that related to a known donor who changed his mind and tried to get custody? I have heard some horror stories and am trying to be as careful as possible. thanks.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by citygirl144

Satoroi, if you are open to sharing, do you mind explaining what you mean by "court costs"? Was that related to a known donor who changed his mind and tried to get custody? I have heard some horror stories and am trying to be as careful as possible. thanks.

In my case it wasn't even a contested termination of parental rights and I had no battle to fight. The court costs alone costs more then the cost of AI, actually more then both successful cycles combined. I can't imagine if I had a fight on my hands, it could easily have gone into the 10's of thousands. If you use a known donor they have parental rights even if you don't name them they can come after you and demand there legal rights as parents. Years later if you don't have their parental rights terminated (which is difficult to do in many states) they can come in at any point and cause legal problems if they don't agree with a decision your making for the child. People often just think of the immediate baby stage and don't realize this guy will have rights to your child for 18 years and thats a long time to have to worry if they will change there mind and decide they want to be a part of your child's life in any way and you won't be able to do much about it unless you can prove its not in the child's best interest and rarely do they decide having a biological father in the picture is not in the child's best interest.

[milletpuff]

We pay over $1000 per cycle. We are doing two vials each cycle at $530 each (this bank doesn't charge more for various ed levels. It does charge more for ID release but for us that was non-negotiable, and it's not that much more than non-ID release).

Then there's shipping or pickup (since shipping is almost $200, we ship 3 months worth to a local bank so we only need to do a $55 pickup instead of multiple shippings).

All the supplies to do the insem run about $45 per cycle (we are doing at home IUI).

Almost every source that I know recommends two vials per cycle, and some even say that if you can't afford two per cycle you are better off doing two every other cycle and skipping months.

Yeah, not cheap! But I agree that cost should not be a deciding factor if at all possible. I understand that is does *have* to be in some cases, but ideally you should be able to consider other factors first.

[Lyndzies]

Re: court costs...

DP and I will be paying our lawyer a $2000 retainer (this does not include court fees or potential home visits from court-appointed "experts") to handle the legal issues that arise from having a known donor.

As satori pointed out, even though there is no argument from the donor, in order for DP to be the legal parent of our child, she has to adopt. She cannot adopt without the donor terminating his parental rights; rights that don't disappear just because you didn't list him on the birth certificate.

All of this (at least in NJ) requires some court mumbo-jumbo. And the mumbo-jumbo is important enough to require (for us) the involvement of a lawyer.

Plus, the lawyer will be preparing all of our necessary associated documents in the meantime (since having a kid, to us, means you should have your ducks in a row): wills, medical and financial powers of attorney, etc.

All that said, some of this can be avoided in certain states if you have a physician perform the insemination. For example, in NJ, if a physician were performing our insemination, DP would automatically become the legal parent of any child I give birth to, because we are in a civil union and the KD waives his rights when the procedure is medicalized (bullsh*t, IMO) and the doc signs off on it. Even if that were the case, however, I'd still recommend second parent adoption procedures to partnered couples... since no other state has to recognize your home state's relationship laws (also bullsh*t). ALSO it's damned hard to find a physician willing to do an insem with fresh sperm from someone who is NOT your partner (due to the liability if there's a disease contracted). You could freeze and quarantine the KD sperm for 6 months to get around it, but that somewhat defeats many of the purposes of using KD/fresh sperm in the first place!

We actually had one clinic (before we decided to do insems at home) suggest "well, you could just say the donor is your partner on the forms and then we could inseminate you." Ummm... no thanks. I'm not interested in a conception that occurs because of hiding who I am, or opening a really big can of legal worms should the donor change his mind. Seriously, the nerve! I know she was just trying to help, but to me that was the dumbest suggestion ever.

Sorry for hijacking!

/rant.

[uzra_hashmi@rediff]

I think that in the search for a 'known donor' the only criterion should be that in future there would not be any condition or reference to the "event" from either side. I know that this is very difficult but what is the idea of doing things with encumberances.
Uzra