or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Education › Learning at Home and Beyond › Waldorf Homeschoolers Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Waldorf Homeschoolers Thread - Page 15

post #281 of 397
Thread Starter 
Oops, sorry, hit post before I was finished.

We had last week off as our planned 'fall break' to accommodate and enjoy Papa's time off work.

It was fantastic. I really needed some days off to consider what was and wasn't working...and to make adjustments for the change in seasons/weather.

Yesterday, with Papa off for the columbus day 'holiday' I got some time alone for thinking and reading and planning. I highly recommend both: time off and time alone for reflection and planning.

Both the time off and the planning time alone helped me to gain some clarity on a concept I'm calling: attachment homeschooling

More on that later when the idea has had a bit more time to coalesce.

Happy October everyone!
post #282 of 397
Hiya! We're not Waldorf but (like many things lol) I like some of its ideas... Just reading a few pages on this thread, how it's about not introducing academics too early, that part is totally up my alley. Of course, now I have a DD who is not even 3 yet, who is demanding to do worksheets and is trying to learn to read and write.

Anyway, I have a question which I already posted in the main homeschooling forum, but it was suggested I try here as well. I'd like to introduce some form drawing, especially for my older DS (11yo) who has writing issues... weak hand, poor habits, inattention, really really really messy... We've recently switched to Donna Gardner's Italics style and we're seeing improvements already, but I think he'd really enjoy and benefit from form drawing.

I'm trying to find a book (or small set of books) that has instructions just for form drawing, for all the grades, from beginning curves and lines to advanced celtic knots. I'd love an e-book, since I'm in Canada and it saves on shipping, customs, and TIME But of course if there's none available then I do what I have to do...

I've found one book called Form Drawing for Beginners, which is aimed at homeschoolers, and seems great - except it's only the grades 1-3 forms. It's also a bit pricey, $30 before exchange rate and before customs, for a 40-page book.

I've found another set of books called "Creative Form Drawing", by Kutzli, but Amazon.ca has them as "unavailable" and chapters.ca has them not come up at all. I found them at Bob and Nancy's, but they're $30 EACH and I'd need the first 2. Plus shipping. Heh.

The main forum pointed me to Niederhauser, which I also found at Bob and Nancy's, which is inexpensive and seems comprehensive. Is this the best option?

Also at Bob and Nancy's there's another one by Embrey-Stine and Schberth. It says "first four grades", does anyone know if it covers up to knots? Is Niederhauser still the better option for my situation?

Or, is there an e-book or a website somewhere out there with all the forms and instructions? Any other suggestions? Thanks!
post #283 of 397
tankgirl73: i wish i had an answer for you. this website ( http://ebeth.typepad.com/serendipity...ematical_tale/ ) (skroll down you will see some beginning form drawing and a story she tells with it, unfortunetly she stopped doing it before the story was finished. ) has some stuff, what i have found that helps and is not pricey is to google form drawings and look at pictures, if yo are just wanting some early stuff you can do your own story and pick your own forms. that way you can see if it works or not and if he likes it and you like it then spending money won't be such a big deal. it is hard to put out the money when you are not sure if it will work or not. hth

h
post #284 of 397
quick waldorf question for all of you... how many of you have read anything by steiner? what do you know about his thoughts on the equality of the races? a person at our hs group said she doesn't like waldorf because they encourage racism (ie drawing people of color smaller then white people). also a friend in our old hs group had a dd in a waldorf school for some years and although mama was more olive toned and had dark hair and eyes her dd was fair and had blonde hair and she said she felt that her dd was shown favoritism and she told me that in her studies of anthroposophy over the years that steiner believed that darker people were less evolved then lighter people. she was involved in waldorf and anthroposophy for years and years. this really disturbs me. i mean i can't find anything about waldorf that is bad on-line unless it is by this one group that hates all thing waldorf, so it is hard to get an unbiased opinion. either it is all lovey, waldorf is great or it is waldorf is hateful and bad. i can't find a link or a book that is impartial. plus steiners book are so hard to trudge thru, has anyone here read one by him?
also it seems that most people don't look to deep into it it sort of seems to be all about the "stuff", which bothers me... like no one is really looking to closely into it. i tend to do that too as i don't want this form of education to be bad, it is so sweet and lovely and calming... thoughts?

h
post #285 of 397
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankgirl73 View Post
Or, is there an e-book or a website somewhere out there with all the forms and instructions? Any other suggestions? Thanks!
First, I've heard fantastic things about Bob & Nancy's customer service. If you have any questions or need recommendations they are great. I've heard from 2 different sources that they will work to help you find just the right resource for you even if it means spending less.

I have the book Form Drawing: Grades One through Four. It's a thinnish work book but it has everything needed for all those grades. I got it used from the yahoo group Waldorf Curriculum Supplies -- which is an awesome place for buying and selling anything waldorf-related. If I haven't posted a link in this thread someone holler and I'll dig it out and post it.

I don't know of any form drawing e-books, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
quick waldorf question for all of you... how many of you have read anything by steiner? what do you know about his thoughts on the equality of the races? a person at our hs group said she doesn't like waldorf because they encourage racism (ie drawing people of color smaller then white people). also a friend in our old hs group had a dd in a waldorf school for some years and although mama was more olive toned and had dark hair and eyes her dd was fair and had blonde hair and she said she felt that her dd was shown favoritism and she told me that in her studies of anthroposophy over the years that steiner believed that darker people were less evolved then lighter people. she was involved in waldorf and anthroposophy for years and years. this really disturbs me. i mean i can't find anything about waldorf that is bad on-line unless it is by this one group that hates all thing waldorf, so it is hard to get an unbiased opinion. either it is all lovey, waldorf is great or it is waldorf is hateful and bad. i can't find a link or a book that is impartial. plus steiners book are so hard to trudge thru, has anyone here read one by him?
also it seems that most people don't look to deep into it it sort of seems to be all about the "stuff", which bothers me... like no one is really looking to closely into it. i tend to do that too as i don't want this form of education to be bad, it is so sweet and lovely and calming... thoughts?

h
IRRC there are racist statements, quotes and beliefs expressed by Steiner. But he was a product of his time and that would be turn of the century and up until his death in the 1920s.

I have no idea how far those ideas are taken in any particular Waldorf school (which are each independently operated...there is no central group that governs or even keeps track of the schools...)

What I looked at when I was exploring this path was how Steiner's ideas are being used NOW, nearly a hundred years after his death by homeschoolers. I don't look at Waldorf schools at all, since that is a completely different universe.

I have read Rhythms of Learning which is a collection of lectures/speeches by Steiner collected thematically (and given context and interpretation) Robert Trostli. It is fantastic.

Nothing I've read includes any racist comments. And if it did I'd discount those and let them drop by the wayside just like I do other things that don't relate to our homeschool use of said ideas.

Do I believe that Steiner was racist? Not any more than anyone else in that place and time. Historical context is helpful.

JMHO,
post #286 of 397
mary3mama; thank you for the input and the book idea. i will check that one out. i tend to take what works and drop the rest approach with alot of stuff anyway... that just sort of stuck with me and made me sad and feel sort of weird.

h
post #287 of 397
I'm taking a break here today to do more planning and such. I came across a blog I wanted to share, http://ebeth.typepad.com/serendipity/
I especially like the math gnomes and alphabet path entries.
post #288 of 397
LOL, i posted a link to her a few posts back reguarding form drawing! we love love love number gnomes, they are so fun and fun to make. plus her alphabet thing with flower fairies is fun too. and free!

h
post #289 of 397
mary3mama - Thanks for your post. I suspect there are others in the local group that feel the same way...I just suspect that they aren't as vocal. I'm going to keep going because it's still early, but I must admit it's a bit disheartening (most especially with all the HSLDA-ites running around - which if someone finds that the organization is helpful all the more power to them).

Madame Pomfrey - Nothing as overt as a "statement of faith" on my end...part of me wishes it was. That'd certainly be much easier. According to an acquaintance of mine there was time when the local group was "more into fairies and things" (her words). I think I would have loved the group then.

Stacey B - I was mulling this over a bit recently. Maybe you might be able to use the small preschool as a start for your search? Maybe they might have an idea of what there is around your parts that isn't very advertised/well known?
post #290 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
... how many of you have read anything by steiner? ... like no one is really looking to closely into it.... thoughts?
I've read quite a lot of Steiner and took part in 2 study groups, though I am not an anthro. I have read mostly his education works which don't seem as obtuse to me as some of the philosophical and spiritual works. I have never heard of the part about the drawings that you mentioned (after 10 years) and I have not run into anything racist in my readings, but again I'm not an expert. I love to laugh and thank you for giving me a good, unexpected one in saying that nobody is looking for it - there's a small group of very angry people who ARE and I'm sure are able to find exactly what they want.

I would recommend reading for yourself and reaching your own conclusions. This archive has most of his writings online, not just the education ones. Try Intro to Waldorf Education, Education in the Waldorf School, Education of the Child in the Light of Anthroposophy and Study of Man...or skip over to the anthro page.

Personally, my heart is open to the message of compassion I find in Steiner's education works, and though I tried listening and talking to the detractors, what I ended up taking from the exchange was a bunch of sour grapes and a feeling of being barraged by anger. I'm sure some of them had terrible experiences in Waldorf schools, but Steiner can't be responsible for every bad teacher in the country, nor can I - that's why I homeschool. And I'm sure he was no more perfect than anyone else either.

Warm regards on another cold, dreary day,

Lucie
post #291 of 397
Things are going pretty good here. I'm still working on a solid plan for our days, but we have a basic rhythm that is working.

mamaofthree- I have read a few articles by Steiner, but am planning on delving into the archives for more. Nothing in the articles that I have read seemed racist. I would tend to agree with the pp who called it a product of the times if that is in fact there. I have been a little taken aback when it comes to reading about the temperaments though. It seems that everything that I have read about them tends to favor the sanguine temperament. It is always described with more positive language, and while reading Waldorf Schools:Kindergarten and Early Grades, I read the article on the Waldorf Kindergarten and its function. The teacher/writer seemed to associate temperaments with physical body types, but not only that - also the coloring. Sanguines were blonde and blue eyed. The article was written in 1941. I'm not really sure how to feel about the language used when assessing and describing temperaments.

pampered-mom - We live in a very rural area and as far as I have found the only Waldorf homeschoolers or anything of the sort anywhere near. Most of them are classic educators. Most of the homeschoolers in the area are Christian hslers. We have joined a group that was founded on faith principles, and while we are Christian I'm not into exclusion or bigotry that can be associated therein. So, I was pretty excited that no one is excluded from this group despite what sort of hslers they are. However, they were clear that if they ever suspected that you weren't hsling your child (actually teaching anything) then they would have to call you in. I think it will work out for us though. It was a large group IMO.

Some issues:

1. DD1 has become quite the talker lately. DH and I can rarely have any sort of conversation if she is around. On our nature walks she tells a story the entire walk (I have to interrupt her story to get her to do our nature meditation). She is stopping me as I tell a story with more and more questions and comments. While I find it beautiful that she has found language even more than before,it can be interruptive and tiring for me. It seems to interrupt the flow of things sometimes. Should I just be quiet and have less expectations for our "flow" and let her talk? Or should I try to teach times to talk and times to be quiet and listen? How would you approach that?

2. DD2 has destroyed the nature table. She has torn apart almost every leaf we pressed and broken up the pieces of bark we collected. She is very destructive. DD1 was very much not this way. (It's amazing how different they can be.) DD2 has also taken to ripping the pages in DD1's books. I have put most of the books away, but like to keep some out for DD1. She loves to look through them for quiet time. Is there anyway to teach a toddler to handle things gently, or do I need to only put solid indestructible objects on the nature table and put all the books away? That's going to limit our nature table quite a bit. I'm running out of space to put things out of reach.

3. When do you do your planning for the weeks ahead? I'm finding myself a little overwhelmed there, but I would like a more solid plan so I can be more productive with my own time, and not feel like I'm getting our crafts together at the last minute.
post #292 of 397
[QUOTE=mary3mama;14518499]Yep. There is no harm, IMHO, in this at all. Waldorf isn't about rigidly keeping children from blossoming...it's about not forcing academics at too young an age. Learning to write letters or numbers, or write one's name, are, IMO, just normal developmental steps towards this sense of 'me' that wee ones are developing.

My middle child, newly 6, has been reading since he was just past his 4th birthday...completely self-taught. He was writing well by the time he was 5 and is now reading anything and everything in sight. None of this was expected of him...he just did it.

To prevent him from having this perfectly normal self-expression outlet would have been wrong and demoralizing.

Even with all that, he's a kindergartener this year because he is not ready for the stories and activities of 1st grade. He can read all he wants and write all the time (both of which he does) but he is a happy, fantastic, imaginative 6yo and that's all he's expected to be right now.

Thanks for this answer. I need to be reminded of that sometimes. I tend to go at things so "by the book" in a literal way. I leave myself no room and it isn't a good thing. I strive for our experiences to be authentic, but authentic doesn't come from descriptions in a book. It comes from real life. I need to follow the cues of my child.
post #293 of 397
The only hs group around here is very heavily fundamentalist and wanted me to make a statement of commitment to Jesus and against evolution which was 100% not ok with me. So we are stuck with nothing around here. It's over an hour to the nearest other homeschool group. I started a yahoo group, but I can hear the echoes.
post #294 of 397
maybe starting your own website, there are free ones out there. that way if someone is looking for a homeschool group in your area that has no statement of faith they will stumble on to you. there could be alot of families around but they think they are the only ones also.

h
post #295 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastkygal View Post

mamaofthree- I have read a few articles by Steiner, but am planning on delving into the archives for more. Nothing in the articles that I have read seemed racist. I would tend to agree with the pp who called it a product of the times if that is in fact there. I have been a little taken aback when it comes to reading about the temperaments though. It seems that everything that I have read about them tends to favor the sanguine temperament. It is always described with more positive language, and while reading Waldorf Schools:Kindergarten and Early Grades, I read the article on the Waldorf Kindergarten and its function. The teacher/writer seemed to associate temperaments with physical body types, but not only that - also the coloring. Sanguines were blonde and blue eyed. The article was written in 1941. I'm not really sure how to feel about the language used when assessing and describing temperaments
maybe this was what my friend was talking about. her daughter is very much like that, fair, blonde, blue eyed. i also found when reading some info on the temperments that the body type of my children has nothing to do with what temperment they are. very weird. it reminds me of that skull lump reading they use to do... really shows nothing. lol

eastkygal: what do you mean they would call you in? report you for what they feel is not homeschooling? that sounds scarey. so they don't believe in unschooling, just sitting at a table to learn?


h
post #296 of 397
Thanks Pampered mom, I'm going to head down to the coffee shop to copy down the number from the board.

It's our saturday here and it's nice to hear Papa and DS playing!
post #297 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastkygal View Post

2. DD2 has destroyed the nature table. She has torn apart almost every leaf we pressed and broken up the pieces of bark we collected. She is very destructive. DD1 was very much not this way. (It's amazing how different they can be.) DD2 has also taken to ripping the pages in DD1's books. I have put most of the books away, but like to keep some out for DD1. She loves to look through them for quiet time. Is there anyway to teach a toddler to handle things gently, or do I need to only put solid indestructible objects on the nature table and put all the books away? That's going to limit our nature table quite a bit. I'm running out of space to put things out of reach.
After going by some advice from here and on another forum, I've actually ended up making two nature shelves (I don't have space for a table) because my DD was also tearing everything apart. On one hand, I was kind of horrified at first and the older kids were mad, but on the other, I could tell that she was just really into exploring the textures, curiosity etc. Trying to tell her to handle things better didn't really help for me because to her, she 'was' being careful. Carefully plucking everything apart!

So now I have on shelf up higher that the boys take care of and can explore/design (even if one needs a stepstool to reach it). ANd then a second shelf that my DD can 'explore' to her hearts content.

I don't know how you could adapt something like that to an actual table though. Because on one hand, you could go with the toddler safe version, but then your older ones might be sad if things had to be changed to suit the toddler.

I hope you find something that works for you!
post #298 of 397
Can you all help me on ideas on teaching number recognition? My 6.5 yr old is really struggling with this. She knows 0, 1, 2, and 5 pretty well, she mixes up 3 and 4, and the 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 she mixes up all the time. I've spent much time trying to help her learn her numbers. We've done art projects, sensory methods (i.e. writing them in shaving cream, finger painting them, shaping them from playdough, etc.), waldorf stories and drawings...and I've gone the other direction and done drill (flashcards) and many worksheets. She totally enjoys doing the worksheets, but in the end, it hasn't benefitted her much.

We're eclectic and do about half waldorf stuff, so not purists here, but I do really believe in the methods. I'm not exactly sure how numbers are taught in a waldorf setting beyond telling a story and drawing a picture. I don't think that's enough. What other ideas might you all have? I was thinking of trying the story/drawing method again, only combining it with something physical. For example, after she does her drawing, I can put hold it up or put it where she can see it and we can bounce a ball 4 times (if we're doing the number 4) and do 4 hops followed by 4 of something else while saying the number. Do you think that might help? Any other ideas?

I think most kids naturally pick up numbers on their own before this age, so not a whole lot of time is spent in any curriculum (including the waldorf ones I've looked at) on number recognition. I think she might be dyslexic and dysgraphic, but at this point she has not been diagnosed. She has been diagnosed with "decoding" problems, ADHD, and sensory problems. She really is a brilliant and sensitive child, very hands-on and able to pick up anything physical without any trouble (riding a 2 wheel bike at 4 years, flew with finger knitting as soon as I taught it to her and can't get enough of it, etc.) But letter and number recognition are not coming easily.
post #299 of 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
eastkygal: what do you mean they would call you in? report you for what they feel is not homeschooling? that sounds scarey. so they don't believe in unschooling, just sitting at a table to learn?
Shoot... I didn't think of it this way. They were referring to a specific situation where no details were given. I suppose they reported to the board of ed. I haven't had any conversations with anyone in the group about unschooling. They all seem very open however. I know there are some classical educators and some eclectic. I still believe I'm the only Waldorf inspired homeschooler anywhere in the area. I might have to ask about that one.
post #300 of 397
Hi everyone
We are waldorf inspired too.
I am wondering about books for verses? I need one for the mornings

Chandi
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Learning at Home and Beyond
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Education › Learning at Home and Beyond › Waldorf Homeschoolers Thread