Confused about Milk

[hennaLisa]

I would love to know whether organic cow's milk means it doesn't have the growth hormones added. Why do some people buy raw milk instead of pasteurized? Is cow's milk best, or should I be considering goat's milk? What exactly is it that is wrong with soy milk (an other unfermented soy products)? How about other alternatives such as rice milk? I try to make researched based decisions, so if anyone knows of links to some research that has been done on any of these topics, I would love to hear it. It's much easier for me to convince my husband to get on board with me if I have some hard evidence to back up the decisions.

In case you want to know my situation, I am thinking about introducing milk to my 15 month old boy. We do still nurse, but I'm away from him 9 hours a day at work. He would happily drink more than what I am currently pumping during the day, and I would love to be getting more nutrition into my busy boy. Sometimes he eats solids well, but sometimes he refuses the things I leave for him for lunch. I'm thinking that milk would be another source of calories and nutrition.

Thanks in advance for all your advice. I love having a community I can count on to help me make the most informed decisions for my family.

[YummyYarnAddict]

I can answer some of your questions (but not all of them) off the top of my head, and I'm sure others will chime in...

The reason many people can tolerate raw cow's milk and not pasteurized cow's milk is that the pasteurization process converts lactose to beta-lactose and destroys some of the digestive enzymes that is needed to break down lactose. Also, it destroys the vitamin D and other vitamins and minerals that are naturally present in good quality, properly handled, raw milk from healthy cows which is why it has to be "enriched" after pasteurization. So many people who are "lactose intolerant" are not lactose intolerant, but rather, beta-lactose intolerant.

With regard to rice milk... there was a study done in the UK where measurable amounts of arsenic were found in commercial brands of rice milk (but not so much in homemade rice milk which leads one to believe that it has to do with the processing and not the rice milk itself). Link: http://www.speciation.net/Public/New...3/15/3519.html

The FDA doesn't test rice milk because it's considered a beverage and not a food. Some people have trouble with almond milk as it's from tree nuts and it often has other "fillers" depending on the brand, but some people have no problems with it. When I'm not using raw milk for something (like baking), I use organic hemp milk.

With regard to unfermented soy, I'll give you a link to the Weston A Price info: http://www.*********/a/soy2.html

Goat's milk is supposed to be closer to human milk in constitution than any other mammalian milk. The taste is a little more "gamey" so some people don't like it for that reason. I would definitely get raw goat's milk over pasteurized or powdered. I do get raw goat's milk when I can, but our "supplier" is about 45 miles away and our closest raw cow's milk supplier is 14 miles away. Goat's milk doesn't have as much fat as cow's milk (just as an fyi).

ETA: the other factor is that many (most hopefully!) raw milk "suppliers" have 100% grass fed cows unlike factory farm cows (or even some cows from organically certified farms). This is important to note because cows were not meant to digest grains, soy, meat, etc. They were meant to eat grass! 100% grass fed cows eat grass during the seasons that weather permits and organic hay "off season." Corn and grain fed cows cannot digest their food and it can make them sick necessitating antibiotics. The farms where we get our raw milk comes from 100% grass fed jersey cows. One that we get it from only does once a day milking and we can tell the difference in the butterfat. The milk is SO much richer and creamier (yum!) while the other tastes slightly more "grassy" and is a tiny bit thinner, but it's still awesome stuff! We see "our" cows every week when we do our milk pick up and know how they're treated and get the testing results on the bacteria counts and everything else. Total transparency. You can't get that from milk in a store!

[hennaLisa]

Raw Milk

Okay, that makes sense. I am lactose intolerant, (possibly just Beta, who knows?) I can manage yogurt and cheese just fine, but can't have cow's milk with my cereal for instance.

I'd like to know what precautions people take with raw milk. For instance, what do you look for in a raw milk supplier? Bacteria reports sound good - but what are the bad bacterias to look for, and how much is too much? When you buy raw milk, do you boil it? How long does it last in the frig? How long can it stay out of the frig? Sometimes our nanny will bring a bottle of my milk for my son to have while at the park... how long could raw milk be out of the frig before it needs to be discarded? Any other precautions to take? Raw milk is not sold for human consumption officially in GA (as far as I know), so I don't think it is regulated. I figure that makes it all the more important that I regulate it myself if I am going to partake.

[YummyYarnAddict]

Neither of my kids can drink organic cow's milk from the grocery store without becoming very ill. They can both drink raw cow's milk. Some people, however, can't even drink raw cow's milk so the only way to tell is to try. My kids could eat yogurt, cheese, etc. but now that we've been having all raw dairy, they won't even eat the organic cheese from Whole Foods (even though that costs more!). They say the raw dairy tastes better. And raw cream for your coffee? Delish!

I also live in a state where it's illegal to sell raw milk for human consumption to the public. I have a "cow share" with one of our farmers (so I'm not "the public") and buy "pet milk" from the other. Both of them happen to be certified organic and share the (quarterly?) reports with all of their customers. I checked the reports, visited the farms, and talked to some of their other customers before buying milk from them. I would definitely not have hesitated to ask how they handle their milk, what they feed their cows (especially in winter when cows can't graze outside because some farmers will buy the cheaper non-organic hay where the farmers we go to grow their own hay during the summer to store for the winter), what type of cows they have (jersey cows have a higher butterfat percentage), how often they milk their cows, etc.

No need to boil raw milk because that's pasteurizing it. It's yummy as-is! I rarely even cook with mine and use a different liquid if a recipe calls for milk.

Raw milk can actually stay out of the refrigerator for a couple of days. It actually doesn't spoil and curdle like regular milk but sours naturally. Of course, to leave it at it's freshest, keep it refrigerated, but we take it with us all the time. My dd likes hers nearly ice cold and keeps it in a cooler with an ice pack and my son likes his luke warm and just carries it around. I've heard of people drinking it after leaving it out for several hours and it's perfectly fine.

Here's some information on milk testing results:
http://www.wvdl.wisc.edu/PDF/WVDL.In...rpretation.pdf
http://en.engormix.com/MA-dairy-catt...-milk_1285.htm

and a report from one dairy (posted on the internet so not highly confidential) so you can see what they look like:
http://www.rawmilkcolorado.org/Board...0(Acrobat).pdf

[hennaLisa]

Raw Milk for Pets

The dairies in GA seem to sell raw milk for pet consumption only. Does anyone know whether it is actually meant for human consumption?

[YummyYarnAddict]

Originally Posted by hennaLisa

The dairies in GA seem to sell raw milk for pet consumption only. Does anyone know whether it is actually meant for human consumption?

I get two gallons of "pet milk" every week. (We don't even have a goldfish much less any other type of pet.)

[serenbat]

ETA: the other factor is that many (most hopefully!) raw milk "suppliers" have 100% grass fed cows unlike factory farm cows (or even some cows from organically certified farms).

You REALLY have to watch this- in my area, there is a farm that sells - RAW MILK, but the cows eat grass that has been sprayed and NOT organic! They will tell you if you ASK, but the don't advertise it-------so if you do RAW MILK ask, don't just go by they eat grass, you need to ask more question.
I am in North East PA

[YummyYarnAddict]

Originally Posted by serenbat

You REALLY have to watch this- in my area, there is a farm that sells - RAW MILK, but the cows eat grass that has been sprayed and NOT organic! They will tell you if you ASK, but the don't advertise it-------so if you do RAW MILK ask, don't just go by they eat grass, you need to ask more question.
I am in North East PA

: Oh my! That would defeat the purpose it seems!

The farmers we go to make such a big deal about being certified organic and show that they produce their own hay and have signs saying that they don't spray, etc. and get upset when their neighbors even think about spraying (because these things travel) that I didn't even have to ask. But, yes!, most definitely, that's something to be very concerned about and aware of.

Organic certification is an expensive and time consuming process replete with paperwork and interacting with the feds so I know why there are some farmers who cannot do it for financial and practical reasons which is why I don't dismiss non-organically certified farmers out of hand, but we do have to ask LOTS of questions and can't be shy about it!

I know that the farmer we get our weekly milk from feeds soy to his chickens so I don't buy eggs from him (but his chickens are free range, etc. etc.). The other farmer we go to advertises that his eggs are "soy free" and until recently grew all of the food he fed the chickens. When he announced that he started buying organic grain, there was a flurry of questions on the Yahoo! Group asking where exactly he got the feed from and what the ingredients are, etc. He answered everyone's questions and I'm sure we were all taking notes. Even when we know our farmer, we can't be shy!

[mamadelbosque]

I have a herd share for raw milk. Mostly I like it for two reasons:

1) I *KNOW* I'm not supporting big-ag - monsanto & co - because I have a herdshare and KNOW my farmers. They drink the same milk too and I've seen their barn and their cows and their equipment and know that everything is SPOTLESS. Truelly - if I was milking a goat or a cow, I doubt my barn would be so clean!!

2) It tastes better. Really. I was never a milk drinker till we started getting raw milk - I might have a little glass with cookies or some in my cereal, but we went through barely a gallon a week... now we have no problems going through 1.5 gallons and I'm debating about upping that to 2 gallons.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by hennaLisa

I'd like to know what precautions people take with raw milk. For instance, what do you look for in a raw milk supplier?

You need to find a local trusted dairy (usually they would deliver milk to few pick up locations or even to your doorsteps). Our whole neighborhood (we live in a co-housing where most people are very much into healthy food...so much for crunchy Boulder area) buys raw milk from a local organic dairy. It is delicious and I've never heard of anyone getting any problems with it.

While raw milk is considered one of the best food for human pasteurized is one of the worst ones.

[Yulia_R]

Soy milk is REALLY bad for you. My husband drank it alot before we met and it completely messed up his thyroid.

[serenbat]

Oh my! That would defeat the purpose it seems!

This is a real problem for us in our area! They are the largest and do sell a lot milk and cheese. I was told they sprayed, so I asked and they told me about it- but the fact that they don't advertise it makes me sick! I had posted it awhile ago in my local tribe section when it came up.
The Poster might want to ask in the local section (if you do go with RAW) to find a good dairy.

It does take a lot for the cow farmer to get certified, I wish we had a local one but we don't, the closes cow farm that does raw milk charges over $5.00 for a 1/2 gal (I find that too much!!!!)

We do have lots of local chicken farmers that are not doing soy and lots of non-certified veggie farmers (because they are so small).

[YummyYarnAddict]

Originally Posted by serenbat

It does take a lot for the cow farmer to get certified, I wish we had a local one but we don't, the closes cow farm that does raw milk charges over $5.00 for a 1/2 gal (I find that too much!!!!)

We do have lots of local chicken farmers that are not doing soy and lots of non-certified veggie farmers (because they are so small).

I feel very fortunate, once again. One of the farmers I get raw milk from charges $5.50/gallon + $2 refundable glass bottle deposit. The other charges $6/glass bottle up front then it's $6/gallon for the milk (we have to say how many gallons of milk we'll get/wk and buy 2x as many bottles so we have that many at home and then have that many ready for pick up). Some friends in PA told me that they pay $18/gallon for raw milk at Whole Foods and another friend said that she paid $15/gallon in CA. Wowsers!

We can influence our farmers' practices by asking lots of questions and making requests. Many of them do want to have a "following" of regular customers and once they see that there's an interest in certain things (like soy free eggs) they do make an effort to accommodate demand.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by serenbat

It does take a lot for the cow farmer to get certified, I wish we had a local one but we don't, the closes cow farm that does raw milk charges over $5.00 for a 1/2 gal (I find that too much!!!!).

We pay $8 per gallon.

[mamadelbosque]

I pay ~5.30 a gallon ($23 per month per gallon of milk). But, its no certified "organic"

[hennaLisa]

Great to know abou prices

I'd also love to know how much a "herd share" costs. I'm not sure if there are any in my area, but it would be a neat idea. I've wished I could have a goat, because we have lots of kudzu and I've heard that goats love it. But I do wonder whether we would be able to run as clean an operation as they do on the organic farms.

[YummyYarnAddict]

Originally Posted by hennaLisa

I'd also love to know how much a "herd share" costs.

I pay $10/year then $5.50/gallon of milk +$2 (refundable) jar deposit.

[mamadelbosque]

I had to buy the share of the cow - which is a one-time fee, and which they'll pay back to you at anytime. I think each "share" (good for one gallon of milk) cost $75, or somewhere thereabouts. And then its just a monthly fee of $23 per gallon of milk per week (which comes out to ~$5.30 per gallon