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Colic? Leaky gut? Where to begin...

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
I have a 3.5 y.o. (dd) and a 2 mo. old. (ds). DD had colic when a baby, I didn't understand what was happening, stumbled upon elimination diet, think it was probably milk, could also have been wheat, corn, but didn't figure it out until she stopped having issues with runny bms at around 1.5 y.o. and I quit trying to figure it out thinking I was insane, thinking whatever it was, she was probably outgrowing it. We did allergy testing at that time an all negative. She drank goats milk until she was about 2, then on to cows milk. She still has tummy aches now and then and describes having reflux, and eats a very limited amount and selection of foods, preferring breast milk to everything.

Here comes ds. He's had colic, gas, or food sensitivities since about 2 weeks old. I've eliminated dairy, eggs, citrus and chocolate and have had some success, but then recurrences that I'm not sure are from ingredient slip-ups or not. He's having mucus in his bms. I bought some probiotic but it says it may contain trace amounts of residual milk and soy. I don't know if that is ok to give to him.

At the end of my rope. Not sure what I should do. People (my mom) advising formula. I'm not sure if I should consider that. Not sure if leaky gut is what I'm dealing with, theirs or mine. Really, not sure of anything.

I'm thinking of embarking on TED, but wondering if anyone has any ideas of how I can heal the kids--if its whatever leaky gut is--and if it is the result of my leaky gut...any thoughts welcome. I looked at the resources sticky, but don't know where to start, there's so much info and don't know if it applies to us, since I don't think it is outright allergy.
post #2 of 39
I can't help you with leaky gut or anything but you have eliminated soy? That is a very common allergy. Both of mine are dairy/soy intolerant. DS outgrew it in my milk around 12 mos and my 9 month old can now tolerate soy in small quantities in my milk.

Have you had his stool tested for blood? Simple in-office test that should give you a clue.

Good luck!
post #3 of 39
Dairy, gluten, soy, corn. If you take those out, you've got the major players, and then you should be able to tell if anything is a problem by food journaling. Have your DD go on the same diet. Her stomachaches and reflux and probably even her pickiness will go away. She most likely prefers breastmilk because it's soothing (even if it contains the allergens).
post #4 of 39
Thread Starter 
Taking dairy, soy and gluten out of my dds diet will mean she'll only eat watermelon and apples! Isn't there some theory about craving the things you are sensitive to?

Started TED today for me--will try dd.
post #5 of 39
As an adult, my palate widened when I cut out gluten and dairy, our problematic foods. My daughter was 3.5yo when we started gfcf, at first she wanted our usual stuff and I was feeding her lentils and rice, but we eventually found new, tasty foods, and we're at the point now where both my kids (ages 5 and 3) have quite a broad palate. Between being forced to try new things and getting the problematic foods out of our diets, we all enjoy food more and eat a wider variety than before.

I'd find a non-dairy/non-soy probiotic supp for your little one. It probably won't completely solve the problem, but at least a few studies show significant improvement in colic symptoms with the addition of a probiotic. I think they looked at timeframe of about a month. Definitely look at foods too, I think Kathy's suggestion is a reasonable way to start, easier than a TED but still touches on a lot of the problematic foods, in addition to the ones you've already identified.

An adult probiotic is a good idea too, you may not want to start _more_ new cooking, but we make kimchee, not too spicy, and it's good for my daughter's digestion. I'd consider a probiotic supp for your daughter too, my daughter's digestion is more regular and her stomach is happier when we are eating our kimchee regularly.

Consider a good hypoallergenic multivit for yourself as well. Not as urgent as the food changes, but I'd keep it in mind.

Formula may not make things better in the short-term, and it's problematic in the long-term. And if it doesn't help, and formula brand-swapping doesn't help, you can be SOL, whereas you can keep working on your diet, and at least know it's highly digestible and is good for babies' guts. Personally, my kids' health issues are a reflection of my health, and vice versa. So we're healing together, and thinking of this as an all-for-one and one-for-all issue has made it easier.
post #6 of 39
Mama, the issue is that baby is reacting to YOUR leaky gut. Basically, baby doesn't get optimized nutrition, if your gut is leaking undigested proteins. The child's reactions are a cue about YOUR leaky gut. To heal your food intolerances, you have to remove the foods.

Check out Formula for mom not baby!

Gut health Where to start? Help 101.


Pat
post #7 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Mama, the issue is that baby is reacting to YOUR leaky gut. Basically, baby doesn't get optimized nutrition, if your gut is leaking undigested proteins. The child's reactions are a cue about YOUR leaky gut.
This is what I am curious about since both breastfed children are having issues. But Pat, you might as well be speaking in another language. I read your links but feel overwhelmed with information. If a person had only 30 minutes a day to learn whatever she needed to know what would she read?

I feel confused about what to eat. It seems like potential allergens are everywhere. How do I know if a food is safe or not for me if I've become adjusted to them all so much that I don't notice the problem in myself but in the breastfeeding kids? We don't present classic symptoms--hives, eczema, etc. so I don't know that we are allergic--what is the deal between allergic and intolerant.

I am completely ignorant. I used the term leaky gut in my post, but I'm not even sure I know what that means.
post #8 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
My daughter was 3.5yo when we started gfcf, at first she wanted our usual stuff and I was feeding her lentils and rice, but we eventually found new, tasty foods, and we're at the point now where both my kids (ages 5 and 3) have quite a broad palate.
Please, any suggestions. I have no idea what to feed dd something she will eat besides rice, rice noodles and fruit. Sometimes she'll eat a bite of chicken or fish.
post #9 of 39
On my blog, I have lots of recipes, searchable by allergen (www.kathysrecipebox.com). Also if you go to the links/resources at the top of the page, there's a recipes link in there. Avoiding processed foods for the time being, until you get used to all the terms, would be the easiest. Fresh fruit, fresh veggies, pasture-fed meats if you can get them.

Breakfast ideas (if avoiding gluten, dairy, corn, soy):
puffed millet cereal
puffed rice cereal
creamy buckwheat cereal
buckwheat pancakes/waffles
millet pancakes
grapefruit
fresh fruit
Jones sausage (not quick serve)
bacon
sauteed potatoes in olive oil
eggs prepared various ways in coconut oil
fruit smoothies (a little maple syrup if you need a sweetener; we use pineapple juice, coconut milk, strawberries, blueberries, banana, etc.)

Lunch/Dinner ideas:
chicken marsala
chicken mirabella
roast chicken
pork carnitas
pork and kraut (slow cooker)
pork tenderloin grilled
Transylvanian goulash
poached, baked, fried salmon
fried tilapia
rice
roasted veggies
roasted potatoes
sweet potato fries
pot roast w/ gravy (I prefer sweet potato starch as my thickener)
bone broth (24-48 hours to pull the calcium and minerals from the bones) with rice noodles and veggies in it
hamburgers (no bun)
Sabretts hot dogs (no bun)

Snacks:
peanuts/raisins (GORP)
rice cakes with nut butter (check ingredients)
banana or apple or celery spread with nut butter
pine nuts and dried cranberries
carrots or celery in hummus or mashed avocado
post #10 of 39
#1- I would do Epsom salt baths for each of you every day.

2. I would add bifidum probiotics for each of you.
Kirkmans makes a hypoallergenic bifidum for infants. Here's a link to the Kirkman Labs hypoallergenic probiotic. http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/...0_Spec042.html
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/ViewProdu...roup_ID@1.aspx

But you want bifidum bacteria, predominantly.

3. I would make water kefir and each take a teaspoon a day.
Water kefir is dairy-free. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ht=water+kefir

4. I would take a teaspoon of Bubbies sauerkraut juice, each, per day.
(just have baby lick the liquid/powder probiotics off of your finger)

That is what I'd work on first, while remaining on the dairy, gluten, soy, corn-free diet. Keep a food journal for you and dd.

Here is a list of hidden diary: http://www.kellymom.com/store/handou...dden-dairy.pdf

Hidden corn: http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php

5. I'd add a corn-free vit C. (not sure of brand)

6. I'd order fermented CLO for you and dd. I ordered fermented CLO (plain flavor) from here: http://www.building-health.com/ It is much cheaper than on the Green Pastures site. And when you buy 2 bottles, you save another $6. So, it was $36.90 vs. $49 (at Green Pastures), and shipping was FREE!

Read: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...2&postcount=15



This is my "Cliffs Notes" version for health guts.


Lemon in water. Bone broth. Epsom salt baths. Then Green juices or broccoli or liver. Then..

Most cost effective alternatives are whole food nutrients.

homemade bone broth every. single. day. 1 cup (MANY nutrients needed for detox, plus minerals)
homemade (milk/water) kefir every. single. day. 1 cup (gradually work up, start with an ounce, increase by 1 ounce a week.) (B vits, enzymes, most probiotics in proper ph)
homemade kombucha every. single. day. (start with an ounce, increase by 1 ounce a month, if no mercury fillings.) (displaces and replaces candida albicans in the gut)
green smoothie every. single. day. day 2 cups (any juice plus any dark leafy greens, rotate produce)
liver one ounce, only three times a week. (B-vits essential for detox)

coconut oil 1 Tbls every. single. day. (medium chain fatty acids, kills candida in the large intestine)
fermented CLO, every. single day. (most expensive item) (vit A, D, K, EFAs)
Bubbies sauerkraut 1 Tbls. every. single. day. (or other raw, fermented food) (probiotics)
Brazil nuts 2 ONLY, every. single. day. (selenium)

Epsom salts a pinch in water, all day long. (magnesium sulfate)
Celtic Sea Salt a pinch in every glass of water, broth. (microminerals)
Lemon juice, fresh squeezed, 1 tsp. in every glass of water or smoothie. (alkalizing to body ph, paradoxically)
Raw local honey, 1 Tbls at bedtime. (helps bifidum bacteria to grow in the gut)
Egg yolk, 1 per day. (if not IgE) (nutrients help to detox)
Vit C, 1000mg, two times a day. (helps to detox)


Pat
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by eko_mom View Post
Please, any suggestions. I have no idea what to feed dd something she will eat besides rice, rice noodles and fruit. Sometimes she'll eat a bite of chicken or fish.
There's a grain-free thread here, let me link it.
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ght=grain+free

Tasty ideas that are low in allergenic foods, because it's a lot of meat and veggies, no grains (wheat and other gluten-containing grains, corn), mostly no soy.

Any foods can be problematic, but there's a spectrum. Wheat and dairy seem to be problematic for many, many people, the symptoms are often just fairly subtle and non-specific. After that soy, corn and eggs, as a rough guess, are also not uncommon. In terms of true allergies, fish, shellfish, peanuts and tree nuts round out the most common, but none of our reactions (me and the kids) are real (anaphalactic) allergies.

Then you can get into the realm of leakier guts. Mine leaks some, because I saw the kids react a bit to wheat and dairy, but that's on the less-affected end of things. For people whose kids react to a lot of foods, different types of meats, different types of vegetables, bananas, coconut, stuff like that, that's leakier. And I think between looking at root causes and then doing all the gut healing stuff Pat mentioned, that should help. Just doing the gut healing stuff Pat mentioned should help, looking at root cause can wait, cause I remember when it felt like I was learning so much my head was going to burst.

My basic dinner plan (we're starting grain-free right now) was: meat, rice or quinoa, and a veggie. Now we're going to meat, starchy veg (not white potatoes, but carrots or sweet potatoes or something along those lines) and a green veggie. And that grain-free thread? Lots of ideas, page 6 has links to crunchy mama's 6-week meal rotation with recipes. They look good, I'm using that to get some variety into our meals, which had become boring. And if you haven't had problems with legumes, various types of chilis, red beans and rice, like that are tasty.

Breakfast: we do eggs a lot, but if we couldn't, I'd actually go non-traditional and do leftover chili or stew. My family does best with a hot breakfast with a good protein source (not everyone needs hot, it just works for us), and I can cook once, make a big pot, and then breakfast is done for the week.

Lunch and snacks: dried fruit and nuts/seeds (pumpkin seeds are tasty), I make up batches of stuff (big pan of drumsticks or meatballs) and add fruit, carrots/celery/sweet potatoes/other veg dipped in something (hummus, marinara sauce--esp good with broccoli), like that. Fruit or veggies dipped in nut butter. There's cooking, yes, but I try to make things ahead of time so I can just grab at lunchtime.
post #12 of 39
Thread Starter 
Thank you. All these suggestions are perfect. And just at my level of understanding! Thank you for the primer on leaky gut. I am getting it. The food suggestions are invaluable. I printed it out and took it to the store as my shopping list.

I am actually excited about it. We are on day 4 of the no dairy/soy/gluten/egg/corn experiment and I have noticed a day and night shift in my infant son. Amazing turnaround. Even my skeptical husband had to admit I am on to something here. I feel good, no cravings for wheat/sugar that was always a problem before. Emotionally, the depression/anxiety/lightning quick anger is remarkably better...? In my 3.5 y.o. daughter, she has had fewer tantrums, less oppositional behavior and is generally easier to get along with and has been MUCH easier to put to bed. She has eaten a little more than before, although that is not saying much, and has tried a few foods she had previously liked but had since forsaken for here mainstay of wheat noodles, string cheese, wheat crackers of various types, and not very much else. She has made a marked improvement in the number of different things she will eat in a day from 2-3 to 3-5.

I am breastfeeding her a lot more than I really want to, but I figure once we figure out what is going on here, that will even out as she starts to eat more food. At least I know that she's getting some good stuff in there.

Pat, thanks for your steps. I cross-posted my question about water kefir in another thread, so forgive me. I'm all over the place trying to learn about this stuff.
post #13 of 39
Thread Starter 
Epsom salt baths o.k. for dd (3.5 y.o.) and baby 2.5 mo. old? How much?
post #14 of 39
How do you know if the problem is your leaky gut? How do you know if you have a leaky gut?
post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by eko_mom View Post
I am actually excited about it. We are on day 4 of the no dairy/soy/gluten/egg/corn experiment and I have noticed a day and night shift in my infant son. Amazing turnaround. Even my skeptical husband had to admit I am on to something here. I feel good, no cravings for wheat/sugar that was always a problem before. Emotionally, the depression/anxiety/lightning quick anger is remarkably better...? In my 3.5 y.o. daughter, she has had fewer tantrums, less oppositional behavior and is generally easier to get along with and has been MUCH easier to put to bed.
The bold part, that sounds like adrenal stress easing. When you have time (ha! but as you can make time) maybe check out The Adrenal Fatigue Thread in Health & Healing. Anger/impatience type feelings that seem inappropriate to the situation are often adrenal-related, it's a chronic stress thing, getting worn down over time. Simple stuff helps, eating breakfast early (7-8am), salt your food to taste (may be a lot of salt), no stimulants (caffeine, sugar, like that), and mostly deliberately cut back and try to relax. There's more in the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eko_mom View Post
Epsom salt baths o.k. for dd (3.5 y.o.) and baby 2.5 mo. old? How much?
Definitely ok for a 3.5yo, okay for a 14-month old, when I started with my son. Um, 2.5yo may be young, but really, it's good stuff, magnesium and sulfate, and babies can need both too. 6mos seems reasonable, not sure about 2.5mo. Pat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnitti View Post
How do you know if the problem is your leaky gut? How do you know if you have a leaky gut?
If your nursing child reacts to the foods you're eating, the food is leaking out of your gut not thoroughly digested, and so your gut is leaky. Harder to tell in a non-nursing adult, I think DH's gut is quite leaky but he doesn't have specific symptoms for specific foods, I think it's a whole lot of foods.
post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by eko_mom View Post
Epsom salt baths o.k. for dd (3.5 y.o.) and baby 2.5 mo. old? How much?
You can add 2 cups to a tub of water and all of you can get in.


Pat
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnitti View Post
How do you know if the problem is your leaky gut? How do you know if you have a leaky gut?
Candida, yeast, mercury fillings, eczema, undigested food in stools, food intolerances, asthma, allergies, UTI, gas, bloating and post-meal cramping; bouts of diarrhea and constipation; headaches, frequent antibiotics, steroids, IBS, CFS, frequent illness, antacid use,

http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionleakygut.htm
http://www.jigsawhealth.com/articles...-symptoms.html
http://www.articlesbase.com/non-fict...me-237504.html
http://www.ei-resource.org/illness-i...ome-%28lgs%29/
http://www.caringmedical.com/conditi...t_Syndrome.htm
http://www.stopleakygut.com/
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C22114.html
http://www.leakygut.co.uk/
http://ezinearticles.com/?Leaky-Gut-Symptoms&id=463005


Pat
post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
You can add 2 cups to a tub of water and all of you can get in.

Pat

Tanya's post made me consider the greater body surface area of an infant and the duration of absorption of the magnesium and sulfate through the skin could be increased accordingly. So, I'll caveat that infants absorb the mag sulfate more quickly, so perhaps, a shorter saok for baby.


Pat
post #19 of 39
Wanted to post CS's blog with a LOT of intro info for nursing mamas confronting food intolerances. http://babieswithfoodallergies.blogs...nation%20diets


Pat
post #20 of 39
Thread Starter 
Doing well on the diet. Low grade headache yesterday and today, not sure if its my body detoxing, or dehydration since its been really hot.

Wondering if anyone knows how to make cucumber pickles in a way that retains the beneficial enzymes. All the recipes I've found say to boil after brine curing, so I'm not sure.

We have this Braggs apple cider vinegar. Is this beneficial for use like Bubbies? I just saw that it is raw, so wondered.

So, how long does a person stay on the elimination diet/detox before reintroducing foods?
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