Poll for midwives: Previous UC a reason to decline client? - Page 2

[sevenkids]

Originally Posted by kimiij

How do you tell the difference? What if she didn't relay to you that something might have gone wrong? Once you get there and realize that things had gotten hairy, would you then call 911?

Like I said, the women I have provided prenatal care for were women I had a very close relationship with previously. There was a level of trust built over several years, and the clear understanding that I was not emergency back-up.

For a woman with whom I have no previous relationship, who I only see for a PN visit or two, and then only plan on calling me for back-up, I can't tell the difference. Which is why I won't offer that service.

[zoebird]

also, thank you for answering.

[Sijae]

Well since I had a UC myself, work with a midwife who provides UC support and intend to provide UC support when I am practicing I voted that it wouldn't make a difference.

[angela40]

Originally Posted by MsBlack

And I really hear you about feeling too alone--IMO, a sense of isolation is one of the very worst stressors for a new mom to face. Also IMO, this is at the foundation of most PPD. It is a time when a woman (and her baby and partner) most need to feel belonging in community, and be able to draw upon the emotional support and wisdom of others.

: i think this is singlehandedly the best comment i have read in over 6 yrs of reading MDC
what can we do? to improve this?

[MsBlack]

Gosh, that is high praise indeed....can you feel me blushing???

Anyway...what I do as a mw and friend/community member, is remember this basic need for community/support, and try to provide, and help families provide for themselves, sufficient community support for new moms. It is a point I drill upon quite endlessly (as I'm sure it seems at times to some ppl I know)....and try try try to emphasize the normal and very important needs of new moms for help, for companionship, etc. It does vary in amount and kind from woman to woman, there isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' formula, but we all need to know others are there for us.

We are a social species --which doesnt mean 'we like to socialize'; it means, we NEED other humans for survival and thriving. The way we are made, biochemically/psychologically, means that we need others just the same as we need air, food, etc. This need is surely different from person to person, but is emphasized for all of us at certain times--during our more vulnerable times such as pregnancy/birth/pp, or times of sorrow or illness. I try to teach that, and to suggest ways that women can create community where little exists for them. Even having online friends is better than nothing. I personally and quite literally believe that MDC has probably saved some lives, and certainly some peoples' sanity (including mine!) more times than can be counted.

I affirm women who complain of isolation (YES, it is NORMAL to hate being isolated, and even to have physical and/or psychological symptoms of dis-ease when isolated). I talk about community resources available, just as I talk about where you might find a good pn multivitamin or birth supplies--all in the usual course of things, basic necessities for health during pregnancy and beyond.

er, now I'm real off topic here...but let me just say further that this is one reason I don't understand mws who refuse all forms of support to UC moms. I do believe that mws should have choices just as moms should (and I definitely make some very different choices about practice than many mws)....but I also think it is quite possible to have clear expectations and boundaries with UCers, so as to avoid problems (and who doesn't want to avoid problems?)--yet still offer some woman to woman support. Not just the benefit of mw-to-woman support, but also the broader benefits of the connections/community resources that most mws develop, to those UC moms who may need that.

Some may call this the Post Feminist Era, but to me the conditions for women and children are still pretty awful. I see this played out in one part by the fact of some UCers hating mws, and some mws refusing all care to UCers...it's all about our very unnatural and destructive disconnection from one another, it's all about fear, and a long history of very bad power-relations among people....where women and children, especially (regardless of race/ethnicity), are in a continual state of fighting for our right to exist as we most naturally are and must be.

So much for a Radical Feminist Metaphysician's Rant for The Day....

Now to return to our originally scheduled topic of mw support for UC!

[Serenyd]

Originally Posted by MsBlack

I am also happy to provide prenatal/postpartum visits 'a la carte' for the cost of each visit only, and not be on call for the birth.

Wish more midwives would consider this. Even though there aren't any close by enough that I would feel comfortable asking them to do this. Last time had to make seperate visits to my OB and our PED Dr. to get myself and the baby checked out, it was such a hassle.

[angela40]

Originally Posted by MsBlack

So much for a Radical Feminist Metaphysician's Rant for The Day....

Now to return to our originally scheduled topic of mw support for UC!

actually i think this topic is deserving of its own spinoff thread.... where to put it ? i am a notorious thread killer....
but i think you are absolutely right.... and i am a board certified ob gyn... so there you go....

[MsBlack]

mmmmm....in this forum, Birth and Beyond?

[zoebird]

i'm certain that i don't hate midwives. i did have to go through a deep phase of working through why i wasn't choosing midwifery care--and i did have issues with specific CNMs and CPMs in relation to that--but otherwise, i don't hate midwives.

i think that i am upset about the whole system of woman/child care in this country (the US). i have serious qualms with the way that we are treated.

and the isolation is pretty intense.

my most recent experience was that i was excited about hawk's first steps. it was so beautiful. i was overwhelmed.

i was answering an email in a non-parenting list that i use (about moving to NZ!), and someone mentioned the anti-smacking (anti-spanking) referendum (it's illegal there). and i spoke about how children should be protected under the law. in the later discussion, to which i was answering on the day hawk walked, i happened to share that.

it upset someone (a childfree by choice person), and then i apologized for mentioning it.

i find that i cannot and do not often share the most simple joys that i find in motherhood. if i share it with another mother, it becomes a comparison game (either: you're judging me and my child because s/he isn't walking yet or didn't walk by the same age; or my child is superior to your child because. . .). if i share it with a non-mother, i'm just being an annoying, besotted woman who can't see beyond her own child (i'm self-absorbed and no longer have the mind or ability to think'care about anything else).

i'm not at all mainstream, and so i find going to mainstream mommy groups difficult; and the non-mainstream groups are so spread out, i can hardly get to the meetings--i don't want to drive 1-2 hrs to get to a 1-2 hr meeting, and then 1-2 hrs home each week. it's too much for me, and it's too much for hawk.

i often feel like i am doing this completely alone.

and while i am very, very happy with what i do. i love being a mom and being a mom-- that is, in the actual relating to and caring for and being with my son--is really joyous, fun, easy, miraculous, etc. it's just so awesome.

but, i find that i can't share it without it becoming an issue for folks at some level. no one wants to hear about how he interacted with that balloon all evening or how he discovered a bird's nest, or how he likes to blow out candles or drink from a straw. yk? and then it came out sideways in an email and i felt embarassed about that.

i don't feel thati 'm not without support--my husband is great; our families visit often; i have a few sitters that i can turn to; i have a couple of friends (all of whose children are over 5); but day to day, it can get lonely.

ah well, i do ok.

[mwherbs]

so I have felt the same as you including having a UC myself and have found that regardless of how alternative I am I need support probably on an equal to food shelter and water. Enough so that I sought out friend ships even at the more main stream places like LLL and the mother to mother groups- LLL atleast you are going to find more attachment parents and folks with similar parenting values- and that is what I found I wanted support for the most- sure I want support of other alternative ideas I have but that is a harder sift and parenting was so much a part of my life day in and day out that I could live with cultural differences and let them be in order to have support in the stresses and joys of mothering -- and my poor husband before I really figured out how to establish a bigger universe for myself - in any case sure this should be another topic.

[MsBlack]

Just to be clearer if possible-- don't think all UCers hate mws, or that all mws (among those who don't support UC) hate UCers. That is the extreme in 'each party of the debate'. But there is definitely, between both groups generally, a division that I think should not exist...and is 'patriarchy's fault'. Just to put it in gross shorthand, so I don't jump on my soapbox again!

[angela40]

Originally Posted by mwherbs

I need support probably on an equal to food shelter and water. Enough so that I sought out friend ships even at the more main stream places like LLL and the mother to mother groups- LLL atleast you are going to find more attachment parents and folks with similar parenting values- and that is what I found I wanted support for the most- sure I want support of other alternative ideas I have but that is a harder sift and parenting was so much a part of my life day in and day out that I could live with cultural differences and let them be in order to have support in the stresses and joys of mothering --

yes yes yes!:
so what i think is someone should start a separate post offtopic about how hard it is this day and age to find a supportive "village" after you have a baby. myself, i felt like i lived in a vacuum. no relatives new city no friends disappointing birth experience( 3 wks after arrival; 32 wk breech classical c/s) and literally the only thing keeping me going was motheringdotcom and these forums. but how nice it would have been to have someone say " i am coming over and holding the baby while you take a shower and then i want to hear how you are doing no matter how badly or great" - it just gets so much harder to make these kind of friendships as you get older and move around for your or partner's work, etc.

[Sijae]

There was a time when I "hated" midwives. I started out LOVING midwifery and I saw it through rose-colored glasses. I thought it was going to provide me with that community and sisterhood and I thought it would fill that hole in my life. After a while I started to contemplate UC and I started to hear other mothers telling stories of how they were abused or hurt by their midwives. I felt so betrayed and let down. I swung to the other end of the spectrum and couldn't stand midwifery. I felt that midwives were meddling in a place they needent be and stealing the experience from the mothers.

Over time I started to come back to a middle point and gained wisdom about the different path everyone is on. I started to see midwifery more realistically and realized that there are abusive midwives and gentle doctors and vice versa. That the world is full of individuals with unique needs and unique energy to offer. Over time my love of midwifery and surety that I was a midwife came back into the back of my mind and I realized that I can be the kind of midwife I would like to see in the world, that women who don't want to UC and don't want to go to the hospital should have the choice of a variety of midwives.

And then the opportunity to play out my dreams of midwifery jumped into my lap and my passions were re-ignited. I am just as passionate about midwifery now as I was 15 years ago (maybe more) but I am more mature, more respectful and bring a lot more to the table as a midwife. I'm grateful for all my experienced and believe they will enrich my practice of midwifery. My experiences having a UC and being in the UC "community" for over 7 years drive me to be humble and constantly remind myself of my place at birth.

I fully intend to support women who do want to UC by providing services and wisdom a la carte and also serve the women who, for whatever reason, feel that they want an experienced birth watcher to attend them.

[Incubator]

A quick note to all midwives wondering why a previous UCer might be interested in having a midwife:
I will more than likely want a midwife at my next birth, even though DD was a UC. The reason being is that DD had shoulder dystocia and DS had sticky shoulders. I know that a large risk factor for SD is previous SD. I've now had two babies with SD and, while I know that DD whos' SD was severe came out just fine and didn't need any heroic measures to resolve the SD, I'd like the trained assistance of a midwife next time just in case I get another SD baby and it isn't resolved as easily as DD was. I think now about what I might have done on my own if DD hadn't freed herself as easily as she did, and I feel certain the outcome would not have been good. With my husband getting panicky, I'm not sure that I could properly instruct him on what I need him to do to help another SD baby out.

[zoebird]

i think another factor is how every pregnancy is different.

i may want to birth again. if i do, i may want to UC again or i may want a midwife. i don't know, because i'm not there yet. either way, if i wanted a midwife, i would not be happy being "forced" to UC because i would not be accepted as a client.

but again, i would be upfront with the midwife about why i want her there if i do, and if i only want prenatal/postnatal care, and if she gives that, why i would want that and may want to birth alone or whatever.

i suppose it would just have to be an extraordinary relationship.