my baby is behind on her shots!!! - Page 2

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

This is where we disagree. That is your opinion and not a fact.

Originally Posted by emma1325

This is not even close to being a verifiable fact. There have never been long term studies comparing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated individuals. There have never been studies confirming the safety of injecting certain highly questionable vaccine ingredients into babies/children.

Your statement has no more merit than if I were to state "Most children will have serious issues with vaccines eventually."

OK let me refraise

Of the hundrends of children I know who have been vaccinated IRL, non have had a serious reaction to the vaccines.

Of the children in my family (9 children at the moment) non has had a serious reaction to the vaccine, and in fact non have even had a minor reaction, not even a fever.

In my experience, and in my research of REAL facts on both sides, not the consperisy thearies, but real data, I have found statistically the chances of a sevear reaction to a vaccine is extreamly low.

The only place in the 5 years of research I have ever seen a place where pretty much everychild seems to have had a reaction is this place. Likly because of the nature of the sight it attracts parents who have children effected, or who they think are effected, by vaccination. When your in a place like this then of course its going to appear like the number of children harmed by the vaccinations is high, no different then going to a vax friendly sight and seeing no children effected shows there is no risk.

In fact neither is true. Vaccinations are not 100% safe for 100% of children, BUT they are also not 100% dangerous in 100% of children. Statistically the chances of your child being harmed is low. Less then 4%, however that chance does exist. Vaccinations were made for a reason. Because children where dieing. Children like mine. Children who don't stand a chance with these deseases. My child gets CP, measles, mumps, Polio, she is not going to be "just fine" she'll die. Simple and easy choice for me. Not so much for others.

So yes there is no scientific study done for vaccinated vs non-vaccinated. To date though there appears no differnt. I highly suspect our higher levels of cancer, diabetis, heart desease, everything, is linked much more to our diet then our vaccination. Science is showing that there is a huge link with obesity/unhealthy eating, with all of these. Could vaccine be part of that too? perhaps, but to date they have no stats for that. The stats they do have show its more about diet.

Face it people, especially amaricans, have extreamly bad diets, not all obviously, but many. US has the highest obesity levels in the world, not to mention a horrible medical system that constantly fails to meet the needs of the people, many things could be caught early but are not because people can't afford it.

My point is there are so many factors to why we are where we are that pinning them all on vaccines is pointless and untrue. Sure there a factor in some situations. But stopping them compleatly for everyone will only lead to people still having increased medical problems, AND children dieing from these childhood deseases again.

I am not willing to allow my child to die from something preventable like measles. Her chances of dieing from that are much higher then her chance of dieing from the vaccine. I mean the Flu nearly killed her, she doesn't stand a chance against measles.

[laohaire]

I'm middle-of-the-road like you, Kimberly. I do think vaccines can be effective to some degree, and can be the right choice for some families.

I don't think we can say that vaccines are necessarily 100% safe for any child, though. They might be the right choice in a risk/benefit analysis but I do think that each vaccine has an effect on each child, even if there is no discernable immediate reaction. Certainly that effect might be better than the alternative, but I just can't agree that they are "not 100% dangerous in 100% of children".

Personally, I'd probably make the same choice you made for your daughter.

[Sileree]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Statistically the chances of your child being harmed is low. Less then 4%, however that chance does exist.

That is an interesting stat I have never seen before. Do you have any sources?

[MoonWillow]

I am returning this thread after removing a number of posts. Please remember the UA. If the thread needs to be removed once more, it won't return.
Thanks.

Do not post or start a thread to discuss member behavior or statements of members made in other threads or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.

[ema-adama]

Kimberly, I do not want to put you on the spot for the decision you made and I certainly do not have any issue with your choices that you have made for your family. As a responsible parent it is your duty to care for your children. It certainly comes across as you being a competent and passionate mother. However, for the sake of a discussion and people who lurk and don't post, but still take away information from these discussions, I want to highlight the following:

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

OK let me refraise

Of the hundrends of children I know who have been vaccinated IRL, non have had a serious reaction to the vaccines.

Without a definition of just what a serious reaction is, it is very hard to establish who is having a serious reaction.

Of the children in my family (9 children at the moment) non has had a serious reaction to the vaccine, and in fact non have even had a minor reaction, not even a fever.

Again, it depends what you are looking for. I am not saying your family have been injured and you can't see it. It really does depend on what you are looking for and how you define a vaccine reaction.

In my experience, and in my research of REAL facts on both sides, not the consperisy thearies, but real data, I have found statistically the chances of a sevear reaction to a vaccine is extreamly low.

I am not sure what is real data in your mind.

The only place in the 5 years of research I have ever seen a place where pretty much everychild seems to have had a reaction is this place. Likly because of the nature of the sight it attracts parents who have children effected, or who they think are effected, by vaccination. When your in a place like this then of course its going to appear like the number of children harmed by the vaccinations is high, no different then going to a vax friendly sight and seeing no children effected shows there is no risk.

I personally did not rely on internet forums to get an idea of how vaccine reactions are affecting the population.

In fact neither is true. Vaccinations are not 100% safe for 100% of children, BUT they are also not 100% dangerous in 100% of children. Statistically the chances of your child being harmed is low. Less then 4%, however that chance does exist. Vaccinations were made for a reason. Because children where dieing. Children like mine. Children who don't stand a chance with these deseases. My child gets CP, measles, mumps, Polio, she is not going to be "just fine" she'll die. Simple and easy choice for me. Not so much for others.

Again, your definition of harm could obviously change these numbers. Quoting 4% does not mean much if you haven't defined what harm is.
Yes, vaccines were made for a reason. However, Immunology is a very young science and just how vaccines impact on the immune system of babies/children and adults is still somewhat unknown. Again, you have made the choice you feel best suits your family. I really have no issue with that whatsoever.

So yes there is no scientific study done for vaccinated vs non-vaccinated. To date though there appears no differnt. I highly suspect our higher levels of cancer, diabetis, heart desease, everything, is linked much more to our diet then our vaccination. Science is showing that there is a huge link with obesity/unhealthy eating, with all of these. Could vaccine be part of that too? perhaps, but to date they have no stats for that. The stats they do have show its more about diet.

I think you have touched on precisely the problem here. This is exactly where the debate lies. There are those who are comfortable with the current level of understanding offered by science, and those who are not. Diet is obviously a huge factor, as are cleaning products, toys, food sources, water sources etc. Speaking for myself, but I do not think that vaccines are the only enviironmental problem that has the potential to threaten the health of children.

Face it people, especially amaricans, have extreamly bad diets, not all obviously, but many. US has the highest obesity levels in the world, not to mention a horrible medical system that constantly fails to meet the needs of the people, many things could be caught early but are not because people can't afford it.

Having lived in the US many many years ago for a brief period, I cannot comment on this from personal experience.

My point is there are so many factors to why we are where we are that pinning them all on vaccines is pointless and untrue. Sure there a factor in some situations. But stopping them compleatly for everyone will only lead to people still having increased medical problems, AND children dieing from these childhood deseases again.

I do not advocate every single family stopping vaccines overnight. It would never happen anyway. I do advocate parents having the right to choose medical intervention for their children based on their personal circumstances. And that choice of course includes giving the vaccine, as in your case.

I am not willing to allow my child to die from something preventable like measles. Her chances of dieing from that are much higher then her chance of dieing from the vaccine. I mean the Flu nearly killed her, she doesn't stand a chance against measles.

Again, you as a parent have had to make a decision that you feel comfortable with. It sounds like you have.

Because you have one person you know in real life who does not vaccinate and is not informed about the diseases and the vaccines and how to support developing immune systems etc, does not mean that the parents who come to this board, or that this parent (me) have not considered the issues very carefully.

[kiara7]

Kimberly,

you've made the choice for your family based on your circumstances. Everyone else has the right to do the same.
This forum is more anti-vax simply because we all read and discuss information that is not readily available from mainstream sources.

Also, I'd like to know where the 4% of severe reactions number comes from. Even CDC admits that only 10% of vax reactions are reported, so the numbers would be much higher than what is believed.

[Jugs]

^^Ditto. And most of us are concerned about the unknown long-term effects of vaccination. While you (Kimberly) are in a different set of circumstances with your LO's health condition, there is no research on the long-term risk/benefit analysis for an otherwise healthy child, who most likely won't be effected long-term by many of these VADs.

[miriam]

If and when childhood vaccines are tested for safety and effectiveness, children that have a pre-existing condition are never used in the trials. So there is no information other than anecdotal as to a vaccine's effectiveness and safety when it comes to children that have a health condition.

[medusaatemydog]

[emma1325]

Kimberly, I've also been researching for 5+ years. Here is how my research began, since you mentioned your personal experience.

My first daughter had a reaction to her 2nd set of shots. For weeks after the shots, she ran fever, had horrible hot "knots" under the site of the shots, and was miserable, crying constantly. She didn't sleep well, she trembled, banged her head into ours, clawed her fingernails into our arms over and over again, and had seizure episodes. She was not her normal self at all. The pediatrician attributed this behavior to colic. She said the seizures were probably her "playing with us." I left that ped and visited a different one, because I didn't know much about vaccine risks, but it was pretty obvious to me and my husband that our baby reacted terribly to the vaccines. The new ped was pretty knowledgeable of vaccine risks, and encouraged us to research the ingredients and follow our instincts.

I began my research. The first things that stood out to me when researching was that

1) There seems to be a LOT of parents saying that their children regressed into autism after a set of vaccines
and
2) There has never been a study investigating these families. (These families' concerns are not being taken seriously despite the fact that their stories all match up.)

I found enough information to make me feel like I wasn't comfortable doing any more shots any time soon.

Then I had a close friend whose child became paralyzed for life within a week of a set of infant shots. This child is my child's age (6 years)...and is in diapers, cannot walk or talk, but seems to understand a lot. He was diagnosed as having encephalitis, but of course it wasn't related to the shots. It was a big coincidence.

All I could think was...that could have been my baby.

Then I had a cousin whose 13 month old toddler died 2 days after his one-year shots. They called it SIDS.

That could have been my baby.

Then a lady I met through work described to me how her warm, loving, speaking 2 year old, regressed into severe autism after a set of "catch-up" vaccines. Her baby had been sick for a whole year with ear infections/fevers, so she delayed the shots. Then, when she was talked into doing them by her pediatrician, she let her husband take the baby to get shots. She got home after them, and her husband said the baby was sleeping because they had given him NINE vaccines in one visit to catch him up. She ran to his room, and found him rocking and staring at the wall. He never spoke again.

That could have been my baby.

After that third story that happened upon me, I began a search to find other parents whose babies were seriously affected by vaccines. I've interviewed over 500 parents (my husband is a journalist and we're working on a book on vaccine exemptions.) I've also interviewed many medical experts who are against vaccines...and there are actually more than you'd expect...and none of them hold a patent on a vaccine, if you get my drift.

The thing that really stands out to me is that the autism-after-vaccines stories all match up so well. Many, many parents say that their child regressed after "catch-up" vaccines, which says to me that the autism factor is more of a toxin thresh-hold issue...every child has his/her own individual limit of how many toxins can be tolerated before the brain becomes injured.

Also, there have never been appropriate safety studies conducted, despite the fact that so much time has gone by, to prove the long-term safety. Sure, cancer and other chronic diseases can probably be attributed at least in part to our diet and lifestyle. But let's be realistic here. Vaccines have serious ingredients...some of which are classified carcinogens or neurotoxins...which have never been studied for safety in vaccine use. Vaccines could easily be contributing to our cancer cases and we'd never know...because we've never studied it. And is it really that far-fetched? Classified carcinogens? Is it really that far-fetched to think that injecting babies with neuro-toxins may be toxic to their brains?

I'm not at all comfortable with aluminum or formaldehyde being injected into me or my family, especially without appropriate safety studies being done.

I can understand your position, but I wanted to make it clear that many people have done as much research as you have (or more,) and have come to a different conclusion. And they are not, as you have implied, relying on conspiracy theories to back their beliefs.

I don't know, for sure, what I would do if I were in your position. But I know I'd take into account all of the evidence I've personally seen of the harm vaccines can do to a body.

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Just wanted to throw out there that Hep B is not solely a disease of "drug abusers and prostitutes" and the vaccine wasn't billed as such either.

Hep B can also be spread through a family/close contacts outside of needles and sex.

But you have to share bodily fluids and most babies are not at risk .. so the very idea that EVERY child should have one is purely about profit.. not about the health of your child.. the risk of the vaccine to the childs health is higher than the risk of the disease... there are few people that would need to consider such a vaccine.. especially for a newborn... i would never choose this vaccine because of the side effects on the brain of a child who's not yet developed neurologically.. the myelin has not yet formed around the nerves .. they are exposed and when you inject a baby there is not doubt that you are damaging their neural developement.. for a shot you don't even need

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Kimberly, I've also been researching for 5+ years. Here is how my research began, since you mentioned your personal experience.

My first daughter had a reaction to her 2nd set of shots. For weeks after the shots, she ran fever, had horrible hot "knots" under the site of the shots, and was miserable, crying constantly. She didn't sleep well, she trembled, banged her head into ours, clawed her fingernails into our arms over and over again, and had seizure episodes. She was not her normal self at all. The pediatrician attributed this behavior to colic. She said the seizures were probably her "playing with us." I left that ped and visited a different one, because I didn't know much about vaccine risks, but it was pretty obvious to me and my husband that our baby reacted terribly to the vaccines. The new ped was pretty knowledgeable of vaccine risks, and encouraged us to research the ingredients and follow our instincts.

I began my research. The first things that stood out to me when researching was that

1) There seems to be a LOT of parents saying that their children regressed into autism after a set of vaccines
and
2) There has never been a study investigating these families. (These families' concerns are not being taken seriously despite the fact that their stories all match up.)

I found enough information to make me feel like I wasn't comfortable doing any more shots any time soon.

Then I had a close friend whose child became paralyzed for life within a week of a set of infant shots. This child is my child's age (6 years)...and is in diapers, cannot walk or talk, but seems to understand a lot. He was diagnosed as having encephalitis, but of course it wasn't related to the shots. It was a big coincidence.

All I could think was...that could have been my baby.

Then I had a cousin whose 13 month old toddler died 2 days after his one-year shots. They called it SIDS.

That could have been my baby.

Then a lady I met through work described to me how her warm, loving, speaking 2 year old, regressed into severe autism after a set of "catch-up" vaccines. Her baby had been sick for a whole year with ear infections/fevers, so she delayed the shots. Then, when she was talked into doing them by her pediatrician, she let her husband take the baby to get shots. She got home after them, and her husband said the baby was sleeping because they had given him NINE vaccines in one visit to catch him up. She ran to his room, and found him rocking and staring at the wall. He never spoke again.

That could have been my baby.

After that third story that happened upon me, I began a search to find other parents whose babies were seriously affected by vaccines. I've interviewed over 500 parents (my husband is a journalist and we're working on a book on vaccine exemptions.) I've also interviewed many medical experts who are against vaccines...and there are actually more than you'd expect...and none of them hold a patent on a vaccine, if you get my drift.

The thing that really stands out to me is that the autism-after-vaccines stories all match up so well. Many, many parents say that their child regressed after "catch-up" vaccines, which says to me that the autism factor is more of a toxin thresh-hold issue...every child has his/her own individual limit of how many toxins can be tolerated before the brain becomes injured.

Also, there have never been appropriate safety studies conducted, despite the fact that so much time has gone by, to prove the long-term safety. Sure, cancer and other chronic diseases can probably be attributed at least in part to our diet and lifestyle. But let's be realistic here. Vaccines have serious ingredients...some of which are classified carcinogens or neurotoxins...which have never been studied for safety in vaccine use. Vaccines could easily be contributing to our cancer cases and we'd never know...because we've never studied it. And is it really that far-fetched? Classified carcinogens? Is it really that far-fetched to think that injecting babies with neuro-toxins may be toxic to their brains?

I'm not at all comfortable with aluminum or formaldehyde being injected into me or my family, especially without appropriate safety studies being done.

I can understand your position, but I wanted to make it clear that many people have done as much research as you have (or more,) and have come to a different conclusion. And they are not, as you have implied, relying on conspiracy theories to back their beliefs.

I don't know, for sure, what I would do if I were in your position. But I know I'd take into account all of the evidence I've personally seen of the harm vaccines can do to a body.

::
i have similar stories

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

I am not willing to allow my child to die from something preventable like measles. Her chances of dieing from that are much higher then her chance of dieing from the vaccine. I mean the Flu nearly killed her, she doesn't stand a chance against measles.

First of all.. i believe you are only seeing what you want to see, but that is my belief... but whether your child is going to or will die from a disease should have no bearing on other children... i will not talk responsibility for the few susceptable people in the sense where my child has to be vaccinated..
because of mandatory medicine we are not in control of our own bodies..and other people should not be to blame , unless someone intentionally and maliciously infects you or your child...
the whole problem is because most people do not really know what vaccines do in the body and they perpetuate this tragedy/propaganda(i say propaganda because even though there were deaths.. it was not as deadly as they would like us to think measles mumps polio and rubella were common and everyone got it) of childhood illnesses and denial..
innocent children are dying from something other people are doing to them delibrately.. ie mandatory vaccination..and thier parents have little say... all those diseases you talk about are a part of life.. if it's not the strain your vaccinated for it will be another... you cannot eradicate disease.. that is a fairy tale... future generations will have no natural immunity to the diseases in thier enviroment and we will experience some nasty and uncontrollable bouts with some of those diseases in the future.. the people who benefit are those who hold patents and own stock in pharma or will be in practice... we would not have evolved as we are now without being exposed to the natural course of disease in our natural enviorment through natural routes of infection.. not injections.. chemically manipulating the immune system will not prove safe in the long run.. .your biochemistry will be affected and there will be some nasty reprocussions down the line.. because you will not have naturally developed the mechanisms to survive (on the molecular level)... future generations are going to suffer... we are overvaccinating and i don't see this as being any benifit for the future... i don't believe in vaccinating.. but i have no problems with other peoples desicions.. they have to live w/it... and in all honesty no one would be having these conversation if there was no mandatory injections... in a way i am glad because we may have never known how dangerous vaccination actually is

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by miriam

If and when childhood vaccines are tested for safety and effectiveness, children that have a pre-existing condition are never used in the trials. So there is no information other than anecdotal as to a vaccine's effectiveness and safety when it comes to children that have a health condition.

They may not be used in the first trials, but most vaccines that I have extensively looked at have had studies done with 'non healthy' children. One big one is HIV infected children. But I have also been able to find more such studies with newer vaccines (such as the large combo ones) but this could also be because the internet is so big now; so you can find the clincal trials of the HPV vaccine online since it's so new but you won't find too much on the original trials for the MMR vaccine.

[Deborah]

I think I saw a study with HIV kids. It involved foster children. I believe it may have been the same foster children who were in the horrid studies where they were being forced to ingest some rather nasty drugs to treat the HIV. In other words, they were being used for medical experiments.

There isn't good data available on how ill children respond to or react to vaccines.