Vent - Awful Coersive L&D Nurse

[WTHamI?]

Warning!

I'm not pregnant yet, but we are gearing up to TTC and I am very much hoping to homebirth with a midwife. That choice was completely reinforced this morning. A woman in my Yoga class is a Labor & Delivery nurse at the nearest hospital, and when I walked in and started setting up my mat she was talking (loudly) to another class member about what phrases and tactics she uses to coerce laboring moms who come into the hospital wanting a natural birth to concede to the epidural. She also said with a smirk that they always gave in, and there's only one mom she's had that made it without the epi, and it was only because her baby came too fast. :

I am SO angry for all the moms who went in with the best goals and intentions for their babies and their own bodies and ended up with epidurals they didn't want because of this awful nurse. (She isn't a particularly pleasant or calm person outside the hospital in YOGA, so I can't even imagine how she would be with a laboring mom.) I may have to change to afternoon yoga because I really can't look at this woman without wanting to slap her now.

I need more angry smileys for this.

EDIT: Apologies for this being in the wrong section, that was a mistake on my part.

[miriam]

How do the other yoga pupils regard her?

I would complain to the teacher or to the head of the yoga program or owner of the studio about the woman.

If she were pushing a religious belief what would you do? I feel this is the same thing. A religion or belief in something unproveable.

[Belle]

How horrible. Hopefully the other women in your class will also realize the kinds of births they are likely to have if they happen to birth with this woman there and take their business elsewhere.

[WTHamI?]

Originally Posted by miriam

How do the other yoga pupils regard her?

I would complain to the teacher or to the head of the yoga program or owner of the studio about the woman.

If she were pushing a religious belief what would you do? I feel this is the same thing. A religion or belief in something unproveable.

Honestly I don't know that there's much the instructor (this is at the Y, btw) could/would do because this particular conversation was an isolated incident, it was before class started, and even though she was speaking loudly enough for people to hear in the hall it technically was a "private" conversation between her and another class member. Anyway, I was flaming mad but I'm really not worried about my interactions with her so much as I am angry and upset on behalf of the women who get her when they go in to have babies

[LisaSedai]

What an awful woman.
I would find out her name, write down every part of the conversation I heard and send a copy of it to the hospital where she works (care of the CEO or director of nurses) and to the State Board of Nursing and ask if this is appropriate standard of care for the L&D nurses in your State.

Fix her little red wagon and she might show some respect for her patients.

[Astraia]

Originally Posted by LisaSedai

What an awful woman.
I would find out her name, write down every part of the conversation I heard and send a copy of it to the hospital where she works (care of the CEO or director of nurses) and to the State Board of Nursing and ask if this is appropriate standard of care for the L&D nurses in your State.

Fix her little red wagon and she might show some respect for her patients.

That sounds like a wonderful idea!

Also add in that because of that conversation, it's made you decide to homebirth or go to ANY hospital other than that, and you'll warn all your pregnant/ TTC friends away from that hospital as well because with staff as callous as that who knows what other things they "coerce" women into?!?



I got into this huge angry discussion with someone i used to know in passing (and now will never speak to again) over episiotomies - he's a paramedic and insists that EVERY woman he happens to attend gets a giant epis, no matter how many kids she's had without tearing, and I about ripped his head off. Stupid, pigheaded.....

He unfortunately attends a lot of births- country hospital, lots of rural houses, etc.

[tygrss]

That is horrible!
I third the getting her name and writing a letter idea. She needs to know that her behavior is NOT okay!

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by LisaSedai

What an awful woman.
I would find out her name, write down every part of the conversation I heard and send a copy of it to the hospital where she works (care of the CEO or director of nurses) and to the State Board of Nursing and ask if this is appropriate standard of care for the L&D nurses in your State.

Fix her little red wagon and she might show some respect for her patients.

This.

[peainthepod]

"I'm sorry to interrupt, but I couldn't help overhearing you say that you push medication on women who don't want it while they're vulnerable and in labor. Would you mind telling me where you work so I can warn my friends and family not to go there? I'd hate for anyone I know to suffer from unnecessary and dangerous complications due to medical incompetence." *innocent stare*

[averlee]

Unfortunatley, I think this nurse typifies the medical birth experience. I think she is probably encouraged to coerce the epidural- insurance companies pay hospitals big money for all those epidurals, where do you think her paycheck comes from? Epidurals also tend to contribute to c-secs, which makes another boatload of money for the hospital. If she stopped coercing women into epidurals, she'd probably get in trouble for letting her numbers slide, have you ever been to a hospital staff meeting? They talk about profit per patient more than they discuss charts or cases. This individual woman sounds like a bad nurse to get, and I'm sure there are good nurses out there, but this is what they do in hospitals- give medicines and do procedures. There is just no money in letting nature take it's course.

[billikengirl]

Originally Posted by Astraia

I got into this huge angry discussion with someone i used to know in passing (and now will never speak to again) over episiotomies - he's a paramedic and insists that EVERY woman he happens to attend gets a giant epis, no matter how many kids she's had without tearing, and I about ripped his head off. Stupid, pigheaded.....

He unfortunately attends a lot of births- country hospital, lots of rural houses, etc.

I can't stop thinking about this....this UAV who goes around cutting women's vaginas not for any reason but because he CAN. He's one step above a serial killer in my opinion.

[Astraia]

Originally Posted by billikengirl

I can't stop thinking about this....this UAV who goes around cutting women's vaginas not for any reason but because he CAN. He's one step above a serial killer in my opinion.

and i keep getting angry with myself because I was SO MAD that I couldn't form decent arguments against it to convince him he was wrong, I was trying so hard not to strangle him.



peainthepod- love your response, too! Lol!

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by Astraia

and i keep getting angry with myself because I was SO MAD that I couldn't form decent arguments against it to convince him he was wrong, I was trying so hard not to strangle him.

I honestly hope you will consider reporting him to his employer and/or the state licensing boards. It sounds like he may have some kind of personal, deviant interest in mutilating women's genitals. Someone like that definitely needs to be investigated.

[MamaTaraX]

The nurse sounds incredibly common. They are trained (some anyway) to offer medications and make suggestions to women at times when they are most easily coerced. It's really sad. It's sad and it's real and it's all too common. Reporting it may or may not have any effect. Of course, hospitals speak in terms of dollars, so letting them know that this "we push drugs even when women don't want it" attitude is leading women away from their particular hospital, well, that might motivate them to consider talking with their nurses. The hospital I work for makes all the nurses go through what amounts to a doula training course. It's amazing to see how their attitudes have changed since this has been implimented. They have changed how and when they offer drugs. To be fair, not all of the nurses have changed. Some are still excellent at seeing a woman at that certain point and ushering in a needleful of happiness and a doctor full of anesthesia training still.

About the paramedic: Here's another case where reporting him may or may not do any good. He may well be trained to give episiotomies to everyone. Plenty of doctors sure are. I'm not even sure he has some underlying issue (someone mentioned he just likes to go around mutilating genitals). The reality may be that might be all he knows and it might really be what he believes. Plenty of doctors think they are really doing something helpful every time they pick up a pair of episiotomy scissors. They're not, but they really think they are. Some don't, but many do. Unfortunately this paramedic may be just like them.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by peainthepod

"I'm sorry to interrupt, but I couldn't help overhearing you say that you push medication on women who don't want it while they're vulnerable and in labor. Would you mind telling me where you work so I can warn my friends and family not to go there? I'd hate for anyone I know to suffer from unnecessary and dangerous complications due to medical incompetence." *innocent stare*

“Also, could you spell your name for me? I want to make sure I get it right when I file a complaint to the X State Board of Nursing.”

Originally Posted by averlee

Unfortunatley, I think this nurse typifies the medical birth experience. I think she is probably encouraged to coerce the epidural- insurance companies pay hospitals big money for all those epidurals, where do you think her paycheck comes from? Epidurals also tend to contribute to c-secs, which makes another boatload of money for the hospital. .

All of this. Plus….hospitals are working to increase revenue by short-staffing (and thereby short-changing laboring women. This is why they outright defy all medical evidence by “requiring” electronic fetal monitoring to replace the nurses (and provided a heartrate strip in case anybody is sued).

With this short-staffing comes some very overworked and underappreciated nurses, many of whom are grateful to have their many patients calm and “under control” with epidurals.

By the way, I met one nurse who said that she quit L&D because women in labor are “too whiny.” Good thing she quit :. It goes without saying that she’d never had a baby.

[cathicog]

Originally Posted by WTHamI?

Honestly I don't know that there's much the instructor (this is at the Y, btw) could/would do because this particular conversation was an isolated incident, it was before class started, and even though she was speaking loudly enough for people to hear in the hall it technically was a "private" conversation between her and another class member. Anyway, I was flaming mad but I'm really not worried about my interactions with her so much as I am angry and upset on behalf of the women who get her when they go in to have babies

Actually, you could learn a lot from her-- what else do they do at that hospital to coerce women to give in to thier convenience?? You could warn your community, that if they choose this hospital, there's a good chance they will be coerced into doing things they didn't plan for, need, or want. The community could learn to look to area mw's for thier prenatal care...sorta the Market rules...My guess is this nurse is probably doing a lot of what she was trained to do, once she got on the L& D floor...and its a good incentive to plan a homebirth! I'm with you! Makes you sad, doesn't it, as well as mad! But this is standard Operating procedure(pun intended) to make the most money for the hospital in the least amount of time...gotta have those c/s rolling in to pay for all that expensive diagnostic equipment in other departments!

[kelly1827]

Originally Posted by MamaTaraX

About the paramedic: Here's another case where reporting him may or may not do any good. He may well be trained to give episiotomies to everyone. Plenty of doctors sure are. I'm not even sure he has some underlying issue (someone mentioned he just likes to go around mutilating genitals). The reality may be that might be all he knows and it might really be what he believes. Plenty of doctors think they are really doing something helpful every time they pick up a pair of episiotomy scissors. They're not, but they really think they are. Some don't, but many do. Unfortunately this paramedic may be just like them.

In the national guidelines for paramedics it is NOT the standard of care when attending an "out-of-hospital" birth to cut an episiotomy. It may be something his medical director teaches and what his local protocols mandate, but I don't want anyone to think that it is the standard. By and large childbirth is taught in EMS as a spectator sport with the exception of placed a sterile gloved hand into the opening of the vagina in te case of prolapsed cord with absent pulses (to lift the presenting part off the cord). Depending on the level of training the EMS provider might place an IV line, but that's pretty much it. I've been a paramedic since 1994 and in EMS since 1984 and if I heard someone say that I'd not only challenge him on it I'd call the state EMS office.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by peainthepod

"i'm sorry to interrupt, but i couldn't help overhearing you say that you push medication on women who don't want it while they're vulnerable and in labor. Would you mind telling me where you work so i can warn my friends and family not to go there? I'd hate for anyone i know to suffer from unnecessary and dangerous complications due to medical incompetence." *innocent stare*

totally!

[Pookietooth]

Yikes!