3 3/4 yr old. Hitting, Kicking, Spitting, Screaming, Talking Back....HELP!

[festivefeet]

Hi there.

I have a little person (my daughter) who will be four in OCT. She is in a very trying stage of hitting, kicking, spitting, talking back and screaming when she is angry and doesn't get her way. I am at a total loss of how to change this behavior. I don't know why she is doing it or if it is even normal for this age. It makes me feel as though I have gone wrong somewhere. My husband wonders if we should have spanked with discipline because she does not seem to respect us. I don't want a robot child, she is a person with emotions and we all get upset and make bad choices, but this is her automatic response to every situation that makes her frustrated or angry.

Please help.
J.

[JMJ]

Read "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk." It has a number of great ideas for when you feel like your child is out of control. Help her name her emotions and find an appropriate outlet for her anger. Feel free to protect yourself from getting hit, kicked, spit on, etc by separating yourself from her if you need to, but make sure that her safety is assured. Let her know that you are not going to let her hit you. If she feels like hitting, she can hit a pillow, but you can't be around her until she is ready to stop hitting.

[festivefeet]

Seperating myself from her? How? Where?

Her room is upstairs and has a gate. She will not stay in her room willingly however, I am not sure locking her in is the right choice either.

What do I do?

I am losing my head over here.

[jewelsJZ]

I think what JMJ may be saying, is remove yourself, not her. Correct me if that's not right, JMJ.
I have done this with my son when he has displayed similar behavior (hurting me or his sister when she was a baby). I would go in the laundry room, which was gated. I would say, "mommy (and baby sister) are going to go in the laundry room because you are hurting me/us and I/we don't like it. We'll be back in a few minutes."
I did this because if I just walked into the kitchen or some other room, he would follow me and continue the hitting/kicking/screaming in my face/etc. so going behind a gate was what worked for us.
Other than that, I can't really offer much advice as to the respect issue. We are still working on that over here. We just hope our ds doesn't ever seriously consider a career in the armed forces when he grows up, because he really hates to be told what to do and does not respect authori-tay.

[*jacksmama*]

DS, 3 yo, is doing the same thing and it is driving me batty. I know I am not handling it the way I want to. I've been removing him from me (not in time-out form though). I think his agressiveness stems from the birth of our daughter, who is 8 wo. DS is amazing with DD, but he gets feisty with me. DH and I agree that we would rather DS take his jealousy, etc out on us rather than DD.

Anyway, I appreciate the thread because we are going through something similar. Telling DS to sit on a chair and think about his actions and to come tell me when he is ready to stop hitting is not working. We'll try removing oursleves form him until he is ready to treat us with kindness and gentle hands.

Thanks
Erin

[festivefeet]

On goes the battle.

Yesterday was one of the worst days ever. So many time outs (which not sure does anything). Throwing things, hitting kicking spitting. It hurts my heart. I don't know what is going on. I find myself not liking her during these times and that is an awful feeling as a mother.

The only thing I can think of is that we took naps away a week ago. It was taking her over an hour to go to sleep. So we decided maybe she was ready for no nap. If she took a late in the day nap, it took her over an hour to be parented to sleep at night, sometimes two. That was just frustrating. With no nap, she falls asleep within five minutes of back tickles. NICE! However, the behavior, I am not sure, is worth it. Does it get better, will she adjust?

QUIET TIME: Does anyone do quiet time? Our doctor suggested quiet time and we have many friends who also do quiet time with their children. However these are spanking type of friends who will spank if their child does not stay in their room for quiet time. When I talked to dd about this idea of quiet time, she cried and said she doesn't want quiet time, she wants to be with us. UGH. So I know it will probably be stressful to pursue the issue of making her stay in her room for quiet time. However, I thought maybe getting a special box/basket and filling it with special things she can use only for quiet time might make it more of a fun thing instead of a "Have to" thing. Items would include....movies she picks out from the library each week, books she picks out each week for this purpose, story cd's she can listen too. Maybe this type of thing will work for her.

My friend suggested a reward jar. Putting 7 M&M's in it in the morning to start. If she makes great choices and does something really well, she can earn more M&M's and if she chooses to make bad choices, she will get M&M's taken away. What do you think?

I have tried taking things from her and putting them in time out for her behavior and this, I am not sure works. We have tried talking through feelings and she wants nothing to do with it.

I seriously just feel like sitting for a good cry. This is so hard, it's like, I feel as though I went wrong somewhere. Not a good Mommy feeling. I have to try to remember that she is a little human being with her own sinful nature.

Jessica.

[Surfacing]

Jessica. If it's any consolation I think this is common amongst this stage of development.

My pdoc suggested the Positive Discipline series by Jane Nelsen et al. It is helpful. There is one for preschoolers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/030...pf_rd_i=507846

Hang in there!!! (and get yourself a glass of wine!)

[covertlycrunchy]

Originally Posted by festivefeet

My friend suggested a reward jar. Putting 7 M&M's in it in the morning to start. If she makes great choices and does something really well, she can earn more M&M's and if she chooses to make bad choices, she will get M&M's taken away. What do you think?

I have tried taking things from her and putting them in time out for her behavior and this, I am not sure works. We have tried talking through feelings and she wants nothing to do with it.

I seriously just feel like sitting for a good cry. This is so hard, it's like, I feel as though I went wrong somewhere. Not a good Mommy feeling. I have to try to remember that she is a little human being with her own sinful nature.

Jessica.

This last bit *really* bothered me. Your baby is NOT "sinful". She is a little CHILD who is trying desperately to deal with her emotions. It is your job as the mom/parent to teach her how to deal with these emotions in a socially appropriate way that works out for everyone and isn't harmful to the child. Have you tried talking to her about YOUR feelings? I'd go have that good cry too by the way, then ask yourself how do you pull out of bad emotions?

My DD is about the same age and she gets this way too. I know how stressful this is (especially w/ a new baby, we have a 9 month old girl also). The loss of the nap is a likely culprit, have you tried just moving/shortening the nap first instead of cutting it out completely? You could also try "quiet time" that includes you, by going into a room in the house she doesn't usually play in (set up the area with some toys/books first) and let her just discover the area on her own. This works really well for us but I don't make a "thing" of it either, I just sort of wander in (putting clothes away usually or something like that) and she follows me. I go about my business, I may talk to her about something but generally I let her go and putz around. Eventually she finds her toys and starts to play. She'll talk to me about what she's doing or ask me about her games but I try not to get too involved but I don't leave her alone or she gets mad. Sometimes I can even bring in a book.

I'm all about benign neglect, it just seems to make a lot of sense to me and a lot of problems I've heard from other parents and have had myself tend to stem from "over-parenting". So I don't really force her to nap but if I notice she is tired I try to give her the space to get that nap in. I'll suggest a long movie she likes or put on some music and she'll usually lay down on the couch and be asleep within minutes.

Also, I try to not use food as a reward for things as I have serious food issues that I don't want to push onto my child. But also how much sugar does she eat? This could also be causing mood swings/bad behavior. So can not having enough good fats in her diet (grassfed butter, see the Traditional Foods section on MDC for more info). So can not sleeping (probably the biggest contributor IMO). But if time-outs aren't working then stop. Especially if it starts to feel like you are constantly yelling/punishing that is a clue that something is out-of-whack with how the situation is getting handled.

Sorry for the long post, I hope this helps and things get better for you.

[festivefeet]

Your baby is NOT "sinful".

- covertlycrunchy

I am sorry my statement "bothered" you. However, we all have different beliefs and faiths. I happen to be in the belief system that we are all born sinful, we have a sinful nature inherited from Adam/Eve. It is only by God's grace and what Jesus did for us that we will enter into heaven. Each day our sinful nature and our spirit are at war to make good or bad choices. The more in tune to God we are and the closer we are to him in relationship, the more apt we will be to make better choices and have joy and peace in our lives. Of course this is different for little children, however they do have a sinful nature and as a parent I view it as my job to lovingly guide her on a pursuit to follow God's ways and enter into a close relationship with him.

Not wanting to get into a philosophical debate (that's not what this post is about), just wanted to explain my view.

Sorry that you disagree, but we all have a right to our own opinion.

J.

[festivefeet]

Rewarding with food?

A friend gave me an idea, I am desperate, so I tried it.

Although many say not to reward with food......I talked to my little one about the concept of the "good job jar". I created a mason jar to look fancy with different papers, smiley faces and a label that says, "Good Job Jar". Each day we start out with 7 M&M's in the jar. During the day when she makes great choices or uses wonderful manners, she earns another M&M. If she chooses to make a bad choice (hit, kick, spit) we take an M&M out of the jar.We have done this for the last two days and it is working beautifully. After dinner each night she gets to eat her M&M's and then brush her teeth. She seems to really enjoy this system. She gets very excited to add the M&M's. And not wanting to lose any has motivated her to not hit, kick or spit at us.

Is this wrong? I don't know. But she seems to be liking the system. She can somehow understand that her action will have a consequence. Nothing else was working. This seems to be.

Jessica

[Surfacing]

Festivefeet, now that I have a little more time, I have a chance to respond how I wanted to.

Your child is at a stage where she is needing to feel more power and independence. We can encourage our children to feel more powerful by encouraging them to do the things they are capable of doing. Over here that means asking dd1 to set the table (which she LOVES, hauling out unnecessarily the velvet and shiney Christmas table cloth, all colours of place mats, etc. ), or letting her go wild with a spray bottle of vinegar and water, plus some cloths for wiping (on windows, mirrors). She LOVES this and it makes her feel capable and powerful.

Another thing here was that we sent dd1 to daycare 2 days a week. Honestly, this has helped a lot in gaining her cooperation because (a) she sees other kids doing it at daycare; and (b) she hears similar "rules" from other adults that she does at home, and is more apt to follow them. Sometimes she even "corrects" us (when somebody interrupts the other, for example). This has helped a lot.

As for the talking back, screaming, etc. I have tried the whole sitting-down-let's-talk-about-it, do you want this? no, this? this? while she screams etc. Didn't work, just escalated. Best thing to do for us what to keep it SHORT AND SWEET and not over-focus on it. One word responses (thanks Magella) -
when I see she's freaking out
ME: Angry, what's going on?
HER: &^%&%$@^&*%^&*@%~!#$*^%*$!
- label feelings, allow venting, try to help her calm down or find a soothing activity -
sometimes she says, "I DON'T WANT TO CALM DOWN!"
In that case I try to respond sympathetically but also lay down a firm boundary - "Okay, well I'm in the kitchen if you need a hug and have calmed down some." And I walk away. That often helps some.

One thing my pdoc suggested was ignoring behaviour that I want to extinguish until it's gone. I was avoiding using this suggestion until I was desperate and wouldn't you know it, it worked! For us this worked with Extendo-Whining. Briefly address, label feelings, vent, problem solve, ready to move on? yes - good. no - I'll be over there if you need me. For us this worked. Often dh and I will suddenly face each other and engage in a fascinating conversation that our attention cannot be diverted from. That works.

Not sure if this will be useful to you but I shared it in case it is. Hang in there!

Check out this wonderful resource on attachment:
http://www.circleofsecurity.net/
If you go to the Resource section and click on Downloads there are some wonderful resources there.

ETA - as for the kicking and so on -- does your child get daily large muscle activity? I'm talking a good hour or two of climbing at the park, swimming, etc? That has made a HUGE difference over here too. It's a way to constructively divert the energy, and the child develops a new skill, and increased confidence.

[Surfacing]

Also check out this thread - http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9#post14228319
Magella has some EXCELLENT points that would be helpful in dealing with the hitting, and a discussion about rewards that I personally support and find insightful!

[mom2grrls]

I would definitely bring the nap back. If she's falling asleep within 5 minutes in the evening she's overtired. If it was taking her an hour to fall asleep try moving naptime up so when she falls asleep it's not too late. Some hitting and kicking is normal when littles are angry but it increases when they are tired or hungry. Try giving her more choices and get rid of the time outs. Time outs do not work to change the issues.