Why do people question politicians, but not doctors?

[filiadeluna]

I don't understand it. Well, a lot of people don't question politicians either, especially if it is someone their family and friends like. I just don't understand why people blindly follow their doctors like they are Gods, especially when it comes to the birth of their child.

Whenever I tell people that I did extensive research when it came to my birth, as well as when it comes to things I may have to discuss with my child's pediatrician, they look at me like I have two - no, three - heads. The worst part is, most of the people I discuss these things with are intelligent, well-educated people. Maybe they just don't have a lot of common sense, or are just naive? I'm not sure what the deal is. Anyone else frustrated by this?

[MegBoz]

Unbelievably so.
I'm particularly frustrated when, all too often in America, blindly trusting your OB leads to awful, awful things (Since they are NOT practicing evidence-based medicine and thus are NOT doing things that are best for Mama & baby both.) If blindly trusting the HCP only rarely lead to awful outcomes, it wouldn't bother me quite so much. It's sad, really.

I think it's just a cultural thing. Docs went to school for so long, they just know what they're doing, right?? I remember in the movie "Orgasmic Birth" when they profiled what was supposed to be the typical 'hospital ride' - Mama got the epi, then the doc wanted to use the vacuum (I don't remember how long she'd been pushing.) Both the Mama & Daddy said emphatically, "I don't have a medical degree." with a tone of voice that said, "OF COURSE we trust him!!! He is the doc! Who are we to disagree?" That's the prevailing American cultural outlook.

Plus, it's honestly & truly scary to know that there are so many health care providers out there that you CAN'T trust. I'm : at the thought of a serious health crisis for DH, DS or I. Knowing all the work I'd have to do to find the truth (since I now have a bit too much distrust for docs) is daunting. Heck, even trying to find the truth about birth would have been hard if it weren't for Henci Goer so neatly compiling all the stats I wanted to access in her awesome book "Thinking Woman's Guide."

So, point being - NOT trusting your HCP is a bad thing too.

[SandraS]

Because people put doctors on a pedestal. Doctors put us in seemingly vulnerable positions most of the time, and people get nervous, withdrawn, and won't debate.

They feel that the paper hanging on their wall makes them superior and better than they are. They will argue with their accountant, who also has a piece of paper on a wall, but won't argue with a doctor.

"The doctor is the expert". That's the thought out there.

The doctor is an expert, sure, but they're also a PARTNER. Most people just don't realize that. The doc doesn't always know what's best, doesn't always have the latest information, and doesn't always have their patients best interest in mind - at that tends to happen when the patient doesn't let them KNOW what their interest is!!

Yes, I think it's just because people think docs are gods, not to be questioned.

[gcgirl]

Doctors are there to SERVE. I wish they knew that and more people would treat them that way.

[georgia]

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[ScarletBegonias]

Originally Posted by gcgirl

Doctors are there to SERVE. I wish they knew that and more people would treat them that way.

you are totally correct. but many do not act in a serving way. my exp with hcp's has been that most have tried to bully me or scare me or lie to me to get me to do what they think is best. that is NOT serving someone in imo.

also, i take issue with doctors giving parenting advice and with parents asking them. they are not parenting experts! they have learned to identify and treat diseases/ailments etc.,. unless the childs/your behavior & habits are *specifically* related to the ailment, it is not their job to tell you how to care for a child/yourself on a daily basis.

[fwlady]

On my first consult, to get an U/S and figure out if I wanted back up care, I actually told the OB that I knew more than him, half jokingly, and I said, "I know my body and what it usually does." And, he agreed that I would know more. Even when I was with these same providers at #6 birth (UC transfer for mec before baby born), I told that OB the same thing. LOL He was all the happy to hand me over to his MW, since he mentioned her, and I said to not be offended, but he is a guy, and I would rather have the female attendant. No problem, and she was there. He didn't get too badly offended though, even told us the baby was not in distress and we could go home, but they would like us to stay.

The OB nurse said, "If you have fast labors, or you say the baby is coming, we believe you. You know your body better than we do." And, the MW said the same thing, that I know my body. I don't even think she ever had a vag birth. SO, when I say I know more, I really do. And, having my 8th, I should know more than many. LOL Although, I have STILL learned things this PG that I never knew before.

I think the difference is that instead of proving that they know more, they just humor me, because they have taken a "make the customer happy" approach that is VERY unlike most hospitals and OBs. Kymberli

[Storm Bride]

I think it's because lying is perceived as a big part of a politician's stock in trade. It's what they do. So, people see no reason not to question them.

Doctors are perceived as being experts. That's their whole stock in trade. They went to school and studied hard and they know this stuff, inside out and upside down. If they act like they know something, people just assume they learned it in school. I know many/most people I know just assume that doctors are experts in nutrition, for instance. Doctors give dietary advice, and they wouldn't do that if it weren't part of what they learned, right? Wrong...but not everyone realizes that. They have no idea how to tell when a doctor is dispensing their personal opinion, as opposed to something they actually know.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by filiadeluna

Whenever I tell people that I did extensive research when it came to my birth, as well as when it comes to things I may have to discuss with my child's pediatrician, they look at me like I have two - no, three - heads. The worst part is, most of the people I discuss these things with are intelligent, well-educated people. Maybe they just don't have a lot of common sense, or are just naive? I'm not sure what the deal is. Anyone else frustrated by this?

Yes. I'm frustrated. So much so that I've stopped pleading with them: "No really. I did my research! Please believe me!!!" All I get is, "Well, doctor so-and-so said..."

I've since given up on them and adopted a new and admittedly misleading tactic that I've posted both here and in the vax forum. If anybody questions my decisions, (after quietly reminding myself that it's truly none of their business), I matter-of-factly reply, "Well, the doctor said...."

"The doctor," of course, is Dr. Marsden Wagner, Dr. Christianne Northrup, Dr. Jay Gordon, Dr. Tenpenny.... These poor people never even knew that they were my physicians!

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I know many/most people I know just assume that doctors are experts in nutrition, for instance.

Yes! That drives me batty!! In reality, I've read that med school actually includes very little nutrition education.

So the Corn Grower's association has been running this advertising campaign to fight the back lash against high-fructose corn syrup. (BTW... I called this over a year ago that "Now HFCS FREE" was the next thing you'd see on food labels... after "low fat" then "low carb" "High fiber" and "trans-fat free" trends over the past decade.)

Anyway, one lady says, "My hairdresser says HFCS is bad."
Lady 2 & replies "You have a doctor do your hair?"

To convey that we should take nutrition advice only from physicians.

Turquesa- love your tactic! I actually do name Dr. Wagner sometimes though by-name & his big credentials when I debate something like safety of HB.

[dancindoula]

What makes it worse is that many people truly believe that the information HCPs are "experts" on is Deep And Mysterious Knowledge Imparted Only To The Initiated. Thus medical/health information can NEVER be accessed, much less understood, by the lowly un-initiated. You know, because no could EVER crack open a medical textbook and comprehend what it contained - heaven forbid anyone go to the Cochrane database and research medical statistics!

[SandraS]

Originally Posted by dancindoula

What makes it worse is that many people truly believe that the information HCPs are "experts" on is Deep And Mysterious Knowledge Imparted Only To The Initiated. Thus medical/health information can NEVER be accessed, much less understood, by the lowly un-initiated. You know, because no could EVER crack open a medical textbook and comprehend what it contained - heaven forbid anyone go to the Cochrane database and research medical statistics!

My mother firmly believes this. If I found information off the Internet, it cannot possibly be valid, don't be ridiculous. If it's online for us normal people to read, then it's not correct.

I wonder when she will accept that DOCTORS get their information from the internet too?

Ugh.

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by dancindoula

Thus medical/health information can NEVER be accessed, much less understood, by the lowly un-initiated.

Another excellent point. Actually - this is something HCPs themselves have perpetuated! I've heard stories of docs explicitly telling patients "Don't go look this up on the Internet."

Additionally, I remember in the book "Thinking Woman's Guide" - Goer tells a story of Penny Simkin being attacked by an anesthesiologist for passing out pamphlets on the risks of epidurals. Goer wrote that he didn't argue on the accuracy of any of the info... but rather said, "What qualifies YOU to write that pamphlet?"

She just looked at him and said, "I can read."

Goer then wrote, "Well, so can I." Awesome!

Ironically, physicians are NOT educated well in medical research - both conducting and evaluating the quality of studies. Dr. Marsden Wagner addresses this extensively in his book "Born in the USA."

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by dancindoula

What makes it worse is that many people truly believe that the information HCPs are "experts" on is Deep And Mysterious Knowledge Imparted Only To The Initiated. Thus medical/health information can NEVER be accessed, much less understood, by the lowly un-initiated. You know, because no could EVER crack open a medical textbook and comprehend what it contained - heaven forbid anyone go to the Cochrane database and research medical statistics!

I actually had a doctor dismiss some research I cited with, "I'd take anything you read on the Internet with a grain of salt."

"Including the Cochrane review?

Silence.

(Where did he think I was getting my information? Entertainment Weekly? )

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

I actually had a doctor dismiss some research I cited with, "I'd take anything you read on the Internet with a grain of salt."

"Including the Cochrane review?

Silence.

(Where did he think I was getting my information? Entertainment Weekly? )

No joke. When I was arguing about a VBA2C with my former OB (and why I didn't just get rid of him, I'll never know), he had that attitude...until I pulled the SOGC's (Canada's equivalent to ACOG) guidelines out of my purse. Obviously, since I'm not a doctor, I must be getting my information from dubious sources, right?