Help me understand "natural consequences"

[raleigh_mom]

So, sometimes I understand the idea. I guess if she won't eat her supper, she will be hungry until snack time. That sort of thing. But I have some situations where it doesn't seem to have any personal natural consequence for DD1 (3yo).

What about at bedtime when I've been reading to her, singing to her, etc. Then I DD2 (8mo) to sleep (we cosleep), and it's time to snuggle up with DD1. Instead of snuggling, she sometimes decides to start yelling and jumping out of bed to play loudly. We're talking late at night when she will bother neighbors and wake her sister who then starts crying. What is the natural consequence for her?

Or early in the morning when I tell her not to wake DH. He gets in really late from work and is home in the morning. I tell her we will get dressed and eat breakfast, then wake DH. Some mornings she will decide that while I am changing DD2's diaper and can't stop her, she can run in and jump on him and start yelling "Wake up Daddy!" This can be a real problem, depending on how late he got home from work. What would be a natural consequence?

Right now she gets time outs for these things, but I understand some people frown on that and feel there is a better way. Please explain. I have my hands full with a "high needs, spirited" 3yo, and an 8mo. I do lots of prevention, and overall we have a great, happy household, but I can't always stop and give the 3yo 100% if I'm in the middle of nursing, or changing a diaper, or baby is screaming, so what is another option to teach her?

[kama'aina mama]

The best I can think of is pushing the edge of natural but is a definetly a connected consequence. "Well, I was hoping to go to the park today but since you kept us all up late I am tired and DD2 needs a longer nap than usual so we will just have to stay home." If there is some activity that your husband usually does withe her in the AM that can be cancelled or shortened because he is too tired.

I dunno. Just spitballing here.

[cottonwood]

Whenever we have a similar situation around here the natural consequence is that mama (or whoever the behavior is affecting) gets grumpy or angry.

The delayed natural consequence I think is hard for some kids this age to really grasp.

[khrisday]

Sometimes there really aren't natural consequences. In fact, there are times when the "natural consequence" is a good thing and thus reinforces. Like if your dd wakes her dad up- then she gets to see dad, right? Of course, if he's grumpy- that may be more of a consequence :LOL

[DreamsInDigital]

I agree. There are times when there really are no consequences to her, and so she may not understand why she shouldn't do the things you've asked her not to. I think it would be a good idea to impose a few gentle consequences, or she may not get the message.

[Divina]

If she wakes up her dad too early, couldn't he impose some kind of consequence? Instead of you. Like, he hasn't had enough sleep, so he won't/can't respond to her the way she wants, like not playing or possibly carrying her out of the bedroom, shutting the door (Lock?) and going back to bed? Anyway, not interacting with her the way she wants. Jumping and yelling when other people need to sleep is a tough one, because you can't safely ignore her, but you don't want her to get a fun reaction out of you, either. My older kids were allowed to read quietly in bed if they weren't sleepy, but I wasn't cosleeping back then.

I like the idea that if she wakes people up, they will be too tired to do fun things with her, but she may still be too young for that to click if it's delayed much. If you are really, really boring in response to her behavior, that might help. (Deadpan expression, saying "I guess we can't have our nice bedtime cuddle, since you're too busy jumping", stuff like that). With our 2 yr old, once we turn out the light he'll usually settle down, even if he's not thrilled about it.

Every single one of my kids has occasionally come up with something that makes me wonder if someone out there has an inexpensive, kid-size straitjacket.
:

Divina

[TranscendentalMom]

Thanks for this thread! I find it hard to come up with natural consequences all the time. What is a natural consequence to hitting?

[ja mama]

I think natural consequences need to work hand in hand with logical consequences. Natural is what happns without you doing anything. Logical is you participating in the learning with a consequence that directly applies. ie: natural= bouncing on couch-falls off gets hurt logical= bouncing on couch- mom won't let you on the couch unless you sit

Sometimes natural doesn't work or isn't safe. What about running in the road (get hit by a car), touching a hot stove (burns)...
There needs to be mmore than natural consequences in your repertoir. Taking her to another room when she's not interacting well, works only if there's time where she has to practice acting appropriately. Can she come back when she's ready to be quiet, or does she have to stay for an arbitrary time set by you? If she wakes up the baby and immediately gets less of your attention (not even angry attention) it could be a start.
I don't know if this makes semse or helps. But I hope it does.

Hitting. You may be near your friend when you are ready to be gentle. Show Momma gentle.

[mamaduck]

For waking up Daddy -- I really think 3 is too young to resist the urge to wake up someone you love when you want to be with him. She probably just can't yet control that impulse. I know that it took my son until he was about six to learn to let one of us sleep late in the morning -- he just had such a hard time waiting. If I were you, I would try to prevent it by locking his door in the morning, and by setting up your daughter with an engaging activity whenever you need to turn your back on her for a moment, so that she is distracted from her interest in waking Daddy.

For jumping/shouting/wiggling excessively at bedtime... I generally tell my 3 year old that I want to stay with him until he is asleep, but that if he can't settle down and *try* to fall asleep, then I just can't stay. "Do you want mommy to rest with you? Then please settle down and lay still." He usually responds to that. Also, I usually tell him stories in the dark to keep his attention, and I gradually phase into singing songs to him when he starts to get drowsy. It helps him lie still to have something to listen to. Finally, if he just CANNOT settle down, then I let him get up for 30 minutes to play quietly or watch a gentle video, and then we try again.

Those are just some ideas. Good luck!

[Devaskyla]

My 2 1/2 year old knows not to wake up daddy unless I tell him it's ok. Not entirely sure how we got to this point, though.

I think it might be because we just kept the door closed for quite awhile so that he couldn't get him up. It helps dh wears ear plugs (it helps for not being woken up anyway, it's a pain in the butt for everything else). Now, when dh needs some extra sleep, ds and I get up and I close the door most of the way, but if ds shoves on it, it will open.

He still sometimes tries to go upstairs to get daddy before I say it's ok, but I just have to say, daddy still needs to sleep, you can go get him at x time. Usually when a show is over and he always gets really excited when he knows it's ok and goes charging up the stairs. If it's going to be another hour or so, I just tell him that he can't go get daddy yet, but we'll do x for a bit.

It's kind of cute, lately dh has been complaining because ds always got him up just in time for Dora the Exporer, which dh really dislikes. So, ds now doesn't go get dh until after it's over. :LOL