weight and starting solilds

[Amatullah0]

nak

ds is 2mo, hardly gaining weight with nursing alone, so hes getting a bit of formula with bm

the other day, ped mentioned how shes worried(hates formula) but since hes only 2mo, we cant start solids, until 4mo

i wanted to wean straight to solid(not pureed) foods. would that still be possible with a 4mo?

or, i think another option would be purees until he can feed himself, and let him feed himself "real food". is it?

[catchthewind]

Trying to supplement a baby that young for not gaining weight is a bit of a vicious cycle. Breastmilk is far denser as far as calories/nutrients than pretty much anything else you're going to feed him, and replacing BM with formula is not increasing the overall amount he eats. He will still eat the same amount, but now one of those feedings isn't as high in calories/nutrients. Then he continues to not gain weight and you will replace more feedings, and so on. I would cut out the formula completely. Do you cosleep? Is your doctor using the WHO breastfeeding charts when determining if he's gaining weight correctly or the old formula charts? If he's using the old formula charts, chances are there isn't even a problem at all and he's gaining weight completely normally for an exclusively breast-fed baby.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by Amatullah0

nak

ds is 2mo, hardly gaining weight with nursing alone, so hes getting a bit of formula with bm

that's hard, Mama. How has the weight gain been?

What are you doing to increase his milk transfer/your supply? When baby isn't gaining, those are usually the 1st things to look into.

There is a great 'low milk supply' sticky at the top of the breastfeeding challenges forum that may give you some ideas. Has baby been checked for a tongue-tie? Have you seen a Lactation Consultant?

Hang in there and keep nursing

[Amatullah0]

Originally Posted by catchthewind

Trying to supplement a baby that young for not gaining weight is a bit of a vicious cycle. Breastmilk is far denser as far as calories/nutrients than pretty much anything else you're going to feed him, and replacing BM with formula is not increasing the overall amount he eats. He will still eat the same amount, but now one of those feedings isn't as high in calories/nutrients. Then he continues to not gain weight and you will replace more feedings, and so on. I would cut out the formula completely. Do you cosleep? Is your doctor using the WHO breastfeeding charts when determining if he's gaining weight correctly or the old formula charts? If he's using the old formula charts, chances are there isn't even a problem at all and he's gaining weight completely normally for an exclusively breast-fed baby.

do you have a link to those charts?

[Amatullah0]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

that's hard, Mama. How has the weight gain been?

What are you doing to increase his milk transfer/your supply? When baby isn't gaining, those are usually the 1st things to look into.

There is a great 'low milk supply' sticky at the top of the breastfeeding challenges forum that may give you some ideas. Has baby been checked for a tongue-tie? Have you seen a Lactation Consultant?

Hang in there and keep nursing

*i* think his weight gain is probably fine with just bm. he was gaining about 4oz/wk, which i think is normal

he is very tall though...

it kills me that the formula is probably killing my supply

ped said even if he has tongue tie, theres nothing they can/will do "we dont cut it anymore"

he does, however have this cyst under his tongue that is probably causing a problem

i've seen different LCs a few times, and its frustrating, because it feels like they didn't/don't help any

i actually think my supply is, or was, fine. : i think the problems started when they wouldn't let me nurse him. he had tacipnia, pulled a lot of fluid from his lungs, and they wouldn't allow anything po until maybe 6 hours old when they offered a bottle cause "it is easier and would cause less stress" <-- :never letting that happen again!
i was pumping in the hospital, but never could get too much out(colostrum), they gave formula mixed with my bm, which probably made me feel defeated since, no matter what i did, he was getting formula too: i hate hospitals! <-- had to vent a bit, thats been bothering me, sorry...

i've tried pumping to build supply, and fenugreek seeds, and mothers milk tea, but not consistently enough to actually do anything. i'm home with ds by myself almost all day, i really don't have time for anything else! i'm so frustrated...

[PatioGardener]

Here is the WHO chart: http://www.who.int/childgrowth/stand...boys_p_0_6.pdf Babies usually gain 5-7 oz a week from when they regain their birthweigth until they turn 3 months or so, when weight gain slows.

How very frustrating for you to have your breastfeeding undermined by the health care providers! Go ahead and vent! I'd be really really angry if I were you.

Your ped is NOT correct - tongue-ties are clipped all the time. Have you asked for him to see an ENT about the cyst? There may be something they can do.

But for now, is there any way for you to see an LC? She could weigh baby and then weigh again after 24 hours and see how much he is gaining with just breastmilk. Or maybe she could help you to supplement at the breast (for an example, see the videos that Dr. Newman has here: www.drjacknewman.com).

If you want to see if you can just breastfeed, be sure to watch bay's diapers carefully. He should have 6 heavy wet pees in 24 hours.

The more you nurse the more milk you'll make. You don't even need to pump if you don't have time! Just nurse more.

[Amatullah0]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

Here is the WHO chart: http://www.who.int/childgrowth/stand...boys_p_0_6.pdf Babies usually gain 5-7 oz a week from when they regain their birthweigth until they turn 3 months or so, when weight gain slows.

How very frustrating for you to have your breastfeeding undermined by the health care providers! Go ahead and vent! I'd be really really angry if I were you.

Your ped is NOT correct - tongue-ties are clipped all the time. Have you asked for him to see an ENT about the cyst? There may be something they can do.

But for now, is there any way for you to see an LC? She could weigh baby and then weigh again after 24 hours and see how much he is gaining with just breastmilk. Or maybe she could help you to supplement at the breast (for an example, see the videos that Dr. Newman has here: www.drjacknewman.com).

If you want to see if you can just breastfeed, be sure to watch bay's diapers carefully. He should have 6 heavy wet pees in 24 hours.

The more you nurse the more milk you'll make. You don't even need to pump if you don't have time! Just nurse more.

thanks.

whats an ent?

argh, i keep getting doctors who use the phrase "nobody/we don't do that anymore" (my ob said "nobody does breech anymore" <--the reason i left her practice for a mw, even though ds wasn't breech)

the ped is the one who would clip the tongue tie, right? i do think he may have tongue tie, and, actually, he has some sort of lip problem as well, but she will not look into it, because either she doesn't think its doing harm, or believes there is nothing she can do.

the lip problem is, it seems his upper lip is too short. its like my little brother's lip, and he is unable to close his mouth comfortably. (ds can close his mouth, but i assume that will change once teeth come in)

as for the cyst, the ped doesn't think we *need* to do anything about it, though she admits that it could be causing a problem

took a look at that chart, pretty sure the ped is using the cdc chart, and on that chart, he was below the lowest line(i'm not sure if it started at 3rd or 5th percentile) i'm not sure of the difference between the cdc and who charts though...

hes a very active little one though, like, thrashes around in his sleep, kind of active.

i've been so conflicted between doctors advice and my own common sense/research/mdc advice. i just feel like giving up sometimes. argh!

[PatioGardener]

ENT = ear nose and throat doctor. A good pediatric dentist may help too. Check out the tongue-tie sticky in the breastfeeding challenges forum to get more info - you may even find a good doctor or dentist who clips them near you.

You can get 'lip ties' as well - that may also be an issue for your baby?

The CDC charts reflect the population - they show you where your baby fits compared to American (Mid-West, I think) mostly caucasian babies who were mostly formula fed.

The WHO charts show how babies should be growing - they were based on infant growth in countries around the world and babies were from Mamas who don't smoke, and were breastfed and then fed nutritious complementary foods. They more closely represent 'typical' or 'normal' infant growth.

For me, where baby sits on the chart is not important, but following the curve is important. (for example, a baby who is born at the 3rd percetile and stays there is growing perfectly!)

If baby is not following the curve, have you thought about supplementing at the breast? If you can give pumped milk or formula at the breast, baby will get the extra calories needed to grow, will continue to get your brestmilk (so you make more and more) and baby will continue to learn to breastfeed.

It sounds like you need to see someone who really knows about breastfeeding, Mama! Is there an LC or IBCLC in your area? Or La Leche League? If baby isn't transfering milk well it can be a vicous cycle - Mama's milk supply goes down, baby transfers less and needs more supplement, etc etc. Getting help fast is the key.

(ps. Feeding the baby is the most important thing - if baby needs more milk and breastmilk is not available, then that is exactly what formula is for.)

[Amatullah0]

thanks