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Formula--is there a lesser evil? - Page 3

post #41 of 57
And I was given the Pet milk formula as a baby because my mom couldn't nurse. I'm not saying it didn't provide me w/ adequate nutrition, but I do have many health problems that I can't help but wonder were influenced by that decision.

I didn't mean to start a debate, all I'm saying is that I wouldn't jump to homemade formula when clearly there are easier, safer solutions the OP can try first.

post #42 of 57
Most standard baby milks do not contain corn syrup solids. For the most part you will find these in "lactose free"/"gentlease" or soy formulas. Normal milk-based formula has lactose, which is normal milk sugar.

Most of the "scary sounding" ingredients in baby formula are the technical names for vitamins, or amino acids, or fatty acids/oils, all of which are nutritionally important.

You know how people often say that the WHO holds that formula is "fourth best"?
Well, the list is,
1. Milk directly from mom
2. Mom's milk by another feeding method
3. Pasteurized donor milk
4. Commercial infant formula

Note that unpasteurized donor milk and raw milk/liver concoctions are actually not on the list at all, because they are not considered to be safe infant foods.
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccohenou View Post
1. Milk directly from mom
2. Mom's milk by another feeding method
3. Pasteurized donor milk
4. Commercial infant formula
Do you mind citing the reference for pasteurized donor milk? The WHO's Global strategy for Infant and Young Child Feeding says "healthy wet-nurse or a human milk bank" (http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publication...9241562218.pdf page 12). I don't remember anything about pasteurization, but I haven't read their documents for a while. Thanks.
post #44 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by melon View Post
4 mo ds is drinking 7 oz every 2-3 hours out of a bottle when i'm gone!
that is a LOT of milk. DD never took more than 4-5 ounces at a time. my guess is your DH could cut down on the amount DS is getting. i don't mean starve him, but just...try other things to comfort him, and give smaller bottles. i would guess he should be drinking maybe 16 ounces a day while you are gone? wait, how many hours are you apart?

also, could DH bring the baby to you to nurse in the middle of your workday?
post #45 of 57
Of course the WHO says this, because the WHO is the 'World' Health Organization, and it has to account for the lowest common denominator- a country with no sanitation, rampant disease, bad water, no way to refrigerate, no education, and the like. In that case, homemade formula would definitely be dangerous.

Of course nobody wants to have to make their own formula. I would do anything to be able to nurse my baby. Anything. But after weeks of having to literally dig rocks out of my DD's bottom [sorry, TMI] and begging dozens of random women for their breastmilk only to be declined because my child wasn't local or "sick" enough per se, I needed to find another solution. Only when you have experienced this desperation will you understand why I and others take this risk. I would like to hear a testimonial from a mama who has used the WAP homemade formula and it caused harm. (By the way, I don't agree with a lot of the other WAP and raw milk stuff, so I'm not a blind 'follower.')

Also, most donor moms do not want their milk to be pasteurized and they will tell you so-they feel that much of the benefit is lost through pasteurization.

Back on topic: To the OP! The baby does seem to be drinking too much, maybe in an attempt to comfort nurse. My 6mo DD drinks 6oz 5 times a day and even that seems to be too much. I would see what happens if you have the baby take 1-2 oz every hour or so, more like a boob baby does. I don't know if you can reverse the overfeeding habit, but in the meantime maybe try the Breastflow bottles someone mentioned, various pumping strategies on Kellymom, and try some galactogogues. Hopefully the supplementation argument is a moot point for you!
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccohenou View Post
Most standard baby milks do not contain corn syrup solids. For the most part you will find these in "lactose free"/"gentlease" or soy formulas. Normal milk-based formula has lactose, which is normal milk sugar.

Most of the "scary sounding" ingredients in baby formula are the technical names for vitamins, or amino acids, or fatty acids/oils, all of which are nutritionally important.

You know how people often say that the WHO holds that formula is "fourth best"?
Well, the list is,
1. Milk directly from mom
2. Mom's milk by another feeding method
3. Pasteurized donor milk
4. Commercial infant formula

Note that unpasteurized donor milk and raw milk/liver concoctions are actually not on the list at all, because they are not considered to be safe infant foods.
This is true, but it's a little misleading. Really, the first three are all breastmilk. So when you think about it, formula is more like second best. Health wise, the difference between breastmilk from the tap, a bottle, or a donor is not *that* huge.

Further? If a mom is having supply issues, the first two are already not options. And if she can't get donor milk, that list helps our OP not at all.
post #47 of 57
Thread Starter 
again, thanks for all the help.
we are using Dr Browns bottles with standard level 1 nipples. should i look for preemie nipples, or do you think they will frustrate a 4 mo?
post #48 of 57
I agree with many previous posters. Your baby is eating way too much at one time and is very likely comfort sucking. I think the Dr. Brown level 1 nipples are fine. You could always try and preemie nipple and see what happens. There are great tips for bottle feeding the breastfed baby on kellymom.com. She talks about pulling the bottle out periodically to more closely mimic feeding from the breast. A bottle fed baby will often take whatever is in the bottle, especially at 4 months.

Please don't give up and supplement yet! The best thing you can do for your supply is to nurse. You have gotten some great suggestions on this thread. Good luck!
post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlea View Post
Donated milk.
Is it really that easy to get donated milk?
Isn't it expensive?
When I was having nursing issues in the beginning, I knew no one else with a nursing baby and I certainly couldn't picture anyone wanting to be hooked up to a pump for me.
post #50 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
And not everyone can afford donated milk either, while I'm on the subject.
At the most, donated milk is the cost of shipping. If you are lucky, you can find someone locally. Hence the word donated not sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draupadi View Post
Is it really that easy to get donated milk?
Isn't it expensive?
When I was having nursing issues in the beginning, I knew no one else with a nursing baby and I certainly couldn't picture anyone wanting to be hooked up to a pump for me.
www.milkshare.com its mostly WOHMs who pump more then their kid will eat. Or who built a stash while their babies were in the NICU just to discover their LO didn't like freezer milk (when you can get it from the tap who would?) You would be surprised the number of strangers that will hook up to a pump for you. Mama milk is that important to them. Like I donated a huge box because I had a massive oversupply the first 2 months. It hurt to be so full, I had to pump and with all the needy babies I couldn't keep it all to myself. I love sharing my milk! :

If anything I think mamas are a little afraid to ask the other BFing mamas they know for a small donation. Its "icky".
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriket View Post
At the most, donated milk is the cost of shipping. If you are lucky, you can find someone locally. Hence the word donated not sold.

www.milkshare.com its mostly WOHMs who pump more then their kid will eat. Or who built a stash while their babies were in the NICU just to discover their LO didn't like freezer milk (when you can get it from the tap who would?) You would be surprised the number of strangers that will hook up to a pump for you. Mama milk is that important to them. Like I donated a huge box because I had a massive oversupply the first 2 months. It hurt to be so full, I had to pump and with all the needy babies I couldn't keep it all to myself. I love sharing my milk! :

If anything I think mamas are a little afraid to ask the other BFing mamas they know for a small donation. Its "icky".
The cost of shipping is considerable. It has to be overnight shipped and packed with ice. Not everyone qualifies for every donor milk program. Not everyone can find a local donor. It's really an impractical thing for most people and it's unrealistic to expect all women who cannot breastfeed to automatically get donor milk. It's not easy to get, it just isn't. Certainly it is worth looking into, though.
post #52 of 57
If I needed to supplement, I would choose a store brand formula. The reason I would do that is so that I am not supporting the big names that provide "free samples" to moms and hospitals, send checks to new moms and advertise in magazines. There are organic and conventional store brand formulas and many are made by the same company. They are just as safe as name brand but at a lower price. The drawback is that they are usually only available in powder form, but powder form when prepared correctly is safe. The concern with powder formula lies more with preemies, babies with compromised immune systems and in incorrectly preparing formula. If you have access to a supply of clean water, can read a label, and mix the formula properly, then powder formula is considered safe. This is what I would do, not necessarily what others should/would do.

Good luck and I hope you fine something that works for you and your baby.
post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrum97 View Post
If I needed to supplement, I would choose a store brand formula. The reason I would do that is so that I am not supporting the big names that provide "free samples" to moms and hospitals, send checks to new moms and advertise in magazines. There are organic and conventional store brand formulas and many are made by the same company. They are just as safe as name brand but at a lower price. The drawback is that they are usually only available in powder form, but powder form when prepared correctly is safe. The concern with powder formula lies more with preemies, babies with compromised immune systems and in incorrectly preparing formula. If you have access to a supply of clean water, can read a label, and mix the formula properly, then powder formula is considered safe. This is what I would do, not necessarily what others should/would do.

Good luck and I hope you fine something that works for you and your baby.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but many generic products are actually the brand name stuff with a different label. A person who worked for a grocery store told me that.
post #54 of 57
Donor milk can be easy to come by, IF you know the right places to look. I donated my breast milk multiple times, and was always willing to share my medical lab reports so the other parents knew it was safe. Infact a found a family through my Dr.'s office and I told the nurse (friends of this family) that she had permission to give the family the all clear that my milk was good. I gave them close to 2000 oz. It was just stuck in my freezer.

Anyway, with that said, is the baby taking a pacifier? cause if not, maybe try to get the baby to use one a little. The baby might just need to suck a lot because 7oz seems like a TON for a 4 month old. But I am sure the baby wants to suck and sucking on a bottle is easier then a breast, so the kid is used to the breast and can just suck down that milk before they know they are full.
post #55 of 57
Donor milk would be my first choice. My second choice would be Babys Own-but that caused horrid constipation in my ds, along with most of the other formulas we tried. He switched to Similac Advance EarlyShield and had the problem go away. He was also fine on Similac Organic, but I only used that to ease the transition to formula (it has a lot of sugar, so its very sweet, like boobie milk! But then, it has a lot of sugar....). I'd be careful with stockpiling any formula before you have a chance to try them out too.

Also, as to how much he's eating: My eldest amazed the nurses at the hospital because he would down an 8 ounce bottle at 3 days old, with no problem. Some baby's just eat more at a time but less often-or maybe he's just stressed that mama isnt around, so he's turning to nursing-or in this case, sucking on the bottle. Sucking in general is soothing.
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
I'm not 100% sure on this, but many generic products are actually the brand name stuff with a different label. A person who worked for a grocery store told me that.
That is often the case, but I don't think it is in relation to formula. A lot (not all) store brands are made by a company called PBM based in Vermont. They also make a lot of store brand baby food, store brand pedia sure and other store brand "nutritional" products. Buying a store brand formula doesn't eliminate all the marketing, free samples, etc but if does reduce it a whole lot. It's not a perfect solution, but it what I could live with if necessary. Others may choose differently and as long as you find a solution that works for you and you are happy with, then go with it.
post #57 of 57
My two month old eats 4oz every two hours on a bottle. I know he doesn't eat that much when he bfs. But he will cry until by husband gives him more.
I usually can only get a couple ounces per pump session, so it really takes a lot for me two make the 4-5 bottles needed each day. I recently had a clogged milk duct and it became a real possibility that we may have to introduce formula. I asked our pediatrician and she said that her family uses Earths Best. I am looking into it to use in emergency situations. I read on other threads suggestions for herbal supplements that increase flow. You may want to look into that as an option. I too will do so. Good luck!
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