Help me avoid the "natural consequence"

[swd12422]

DS is 19 months and OBSESSED with our dog. Unfortunately, our dog is not as enamored with DS. He tolerates him, but is used to being alone and really doesn't respond well to a lot of attention, especially when he's lying down. DS loves to pounce on his bed, whether the dog is there or not, and lately has decided it's fun to hang on tight to the dog's tail and let the dog pull him around, not realizing that the dog is trying to get away from him.

Needless to say, I'm terrified that the dog is going to get angry and bite him one of these days. Every time I catch DS doing something to the dog, I tell him no, show him how to pet gently, and redirect him to something else. Unfortunately, he's not easily redirected, especially in the case of the dog. I separate them when I can, but it's really not fair to the dog, who spends most of his days (and all night) in our bedroom as it is. For the few hours he comes out to eat, play, and go outside, he should be able to do so in peace.

And then there are the times that I don't realize DS is close to the dog, and I'm too late -- the dog leaps up and snaps and walks away, or I find him trying to pull away from DS's grip. In these situations, I freak out and yell, which scares both of them, and still doesn't deter DS.

How can I make DS understand that it's not nice and even more important, not safe, to treat the dog this way? He thinks it's such a fun game, and no amount of saying "hurt" or "gentle" or "not safe" gets through to him.

[handzfull]

That's definitely a "natural consequence" you want to avoid. I would:

- Not allow them to be together unsupervised until your DS learns how to treat the dog, probably a rather long time, til he's over 2 at least

- When your DS mistreats the dog, immediately give him gentle but firm training on what not to do and what to do instead

- If the dog tolerates it, reward the dog with praise, and in doing so, you will be modeling to your DS the proper way to interact with the dog

- If the dog acts in any way aggressive, immediately (before dealing with your son) hold the dog's head by his/her "cheeks" (not hard or painfully, just firmly), look him/her in the eye and say "NO" very firmly and stare him/her down, so to speak, until the dog looks away first. When you do this, you are establishing your authority and dominance. It really makes an impression on them and it's not painful or anything, just very memorable for the dog.

- If it doesn't work, consider getting rid of the dog. It would be better off in a less stressful environment and less likely to develop aggressive habits which will likely get worse. You don't want the dog to bite anyone, not just your son.

We had to give our first dog away to a good home for that very reason. We had a 2yo and a newborn and he was just too high strung and would nip if he felt cornered or stressed out. He went to a good home with older children.

HTH!

[elisheva]

Small children are very stressful to some dogs. One of our dogs was so stressed not only did she snap at ds1, but she began only pooping in the house. In the end, we rehomed her with an older woman who loves her up every day. It took us a year to find a suitable home for the dog - it wouldn't be a bad idea to start looking just in case you decide she needs to live somewhere else. We tried repeated interventions - extra attention, more walks...you name it, we tried it. In the end it was kinder to let her go.

[goodheartedmama]

I would not consider rehoming the dog. Not at this point, anyway. He needs to learn how to treat the dog, and until he's capable of that, they should not be alone together. Continue to teach him how to be gentle, and he'll get it. A nip is a dog's natural reaction--they don't have words to protect themselves. OBviously you should not allow it on the dog's part, either, but it is natural, and I believe it's our job to teach our children to be respectful of animals.

[LynnS6]

You need to keep the two separate until your son is old enough to understand. Do you have a crate for your dog? If your dog is crate trained, I would put the crate in a spot where the dog can get away from your son, and encourage him to be there (you could leave the door open). Remember that dogs are den animals, so being in a smaller space is OK at times.

If your dog is not crate trained, I'd strongly consider doing it, or finding a room/place for your dog to be safe. Right now your dog is not safe and your son is not safe.

You might also consider working with an animal behaviorist on the best solution.

[Shera971]

I was in a similar situation with my son and our dog. Our dog is older and not a kid dog at all. After a lot of hard work, my son who is now 4 and our dog have a very good relationship. Here's what we did:

* never left the two of them alone together

* when ever my son was rough/inappropriate w/ the dog, I put the dog outside with the explanation that "when you are ready to play with T nicely, we can bring him back in. That seemed to work much better than redirection b/c there was an unpleasant consequence to DS' rough behaviour

* my son was never allowed in the dogs bed ever. When the dog went to bed it was his quiet time and my son was not allowed to touch him or even be close by

* b/c there were so many things my son COULDN'T do w/ the dog, I made sure to introduce a lot of fun things he COULD do like: help me brush him, play fetch (he got to throw the ball once I retrieved the it from the dog), play hide & seek, DS could choose the fun doggie treats at the store etc

hth

[VroomieMama]

Originally Posted by swd12422

DS is 19 months and OBSESSED with our dog. Unfortunately, our dog is not as enamored with DS. He tolerates him, but is used to being alone and really doesn't respond well to a lot of attention, especially when he's lying down. DS loves to pounce on his bed, whether the dog is there or not, and lately has decided it's fun to hang on tight to the dog's tail and let the dog pull him around, not realizing that the dog is trying to get away from him.

Needless to say, I'm terrified that the dog is going to get angry and bite him one of these days. Every time I catch DS doing something to the dog, I tell him no, show him how to pet gently, and redirect him to something else. Unfortunately, he's not easily redirected, especially in the case of the dog. I separate them when I can, but it's really not fair to the dog, who spends most of his days (and all night) in our bedroom as it is. For the few hours he comes out to eat, play, and go outside, he should be able to do so in peace.

And then there are the times that I don't realize DS is close to the dog, and I'm too late -- the dog leaps up and snaps and walks away, or I find him trying to pull away from DS's grip. In these situations, I freak out and yell, which scares both of them, and still doesn't deter DS.

How can I make DS understand that it's not nice and even more important, not safe, to treat the dog this way? He thinks it's such a fun game, and no amount of saying "hurt" or "gentle" or "not safe" gets through to him.

Ohh, I couldn't stop myself from laughing because your son is so cute and poor your dog! Obviously your son loves your dog so much but I can understand the annoyance your dog is feeling. My dd used to do the same thing with my dog and he bit her several times but nothing serious enough to bring her to ER. I tried probably everything to stop her from doing it but she wouldn't stop until she finally stopped on her own. I guess she probably realized that she was hurting him and stopped.

[swd12422]

Thanks for all the replies. I do know that even if the dog were to finally get angry enough to bite, it would only be a snip. But he's very sensitive and for him to be upset enough to bite at all is not acceptable, on many levels. There's no reason a dog should be so tormented. And yet, rehoming is NOT an option. He is a part of our family, has been so for 4 years, and will be until he dies. It's not negotiable. This isn't an extreme case, I have just never had to manage this type of situation and don't know what's best in terms of how to teach DS the right way to treat animals.

I do try to keep DS off the bed altogether, but that's a losing battle too. I'd be yelling NO all day long if I did that. The dog has several beds around the house so he can lay out of the way and still be with us. I don't think it's fair to keep him separated from us all day long. He does get up on our bed to "get away" when he needs to. Really, you'd think it would be much more manageable as it's only a matter of a few hours per day that this is an issue. But those few hours are the time when the dog is being fed, let out, or stretching his legs, and I'm cooking dinner. I NEVER leave the two alone together, but still, it's unavoidable that they end up together even right in front of me while I'm in the kitchen with them. I'd have to wear or carry DS all day, and neither of us can deal with that! I do pick him up while the dog is eating, and that helps. But in the two seconds I took today to clear the lunch dishes, he was on the tail as soon as he was out of the high chair. And the poor (stupid) dog was so busy mooching around for scraps that he didn't notice his tail being pulled til he tried to walk and couldn't, due to the 23-pound weight in the back.

We do have baby gates around the house, and I guess the only solution is to separate them as much as possible until DS learns the right way to handle the dog. I guess I was hoping to be able to teach him that now, instead of having to wait til he's older, as separating them really isn't teaching him anything and just making the dog that much more interesting to him.

[chirp]

Originally Posted by Shera971

I was in a similar situation with my son and our dog. Our dog is older and not a kid dog at all. After a lot of hard work, my son who is now 4 and our dog have a very good relationship. Here's what we did:

* never left the two of them alone together

* when ever my son was rough/inappropriate w/ the dog, I put the dog outside with the explanation that "when you are ready to play with T nicely, we can bring him back in. That seemed to work much better than redirection b/c there was an unpleasant consequence to DS' rough behaviour

* my son was never allowed in the dogs bed ever. When the dog went to bed it was his quiet time and my son was not allowed to touch him or even be close by

* b/c there were so many things my son COULDN'T do w/ the dog, I made sure to introduce a lot of fun things he COULD do like: help me brush him, play fetch (he got to throw the ball once I retrieved the it from the dog), play hide & seek, DS could choose the fun doggie treats at the store etc

hth

nice suggestions. i second finding doggie related activities that are okay for your darling baby to take part in.

[swd12422]

Sorry, I should have addressed this, too, b/c the suggestions are great. My dog doesn't "play" but we do try to let DS be involved the few times he does. The dog LOVES kids, just not DS b/c he's a little too young and rambunctious. I do separate them, and let DS know that the dog can't be w/ us b/c he wasn't nice, but it just doesn't get through. Same with not letting him on the bed, taking the tail out of his hands and showing him how to pet gently, not taking food out of his bowl, etc.

I know they'll get along once DS is older, but I am just at such a loss as to how to get the message through to him. (BTW, I guess I could have posted the same issue but with me emptying the dishwasher -- it's the same thing. I don't want him sticking his hand in there b/c he could lose a finger if he or I pushes the shelf back in while his hand is in there. But no matter how often I say "no" or "hurt" or "dangerous" he's obsessed...)

[Shera971]

You said that your dog doesn't play... does he like treats? How about setting up some fun training? Have your son hide a cookie in a room and ask the dog to "find it" (starting off very easy like holding the dog while it watches your son place the cookie and gradually working up to a sit stay in another room. Also make sure your DS returns to you before releasing the dog).

I don't know how big your dog is, but could you have your son take him on a pretend walk in the house? Put the leash on your dog and both you and your son hold the leash while walking around the living room or wherever. This way your son will be in a safe environment. Not only will your son feel involved with the dog (hopefully) but it sets the ground work of the dog starting to have to listen to your son.

I know that it seems like you're repeating yourself with your son and believe me I felt EXACTLY the same way when DS was that age. But it does get better.

[Quinalla]

You can start teaching your child now for sure, but he isn't going to have the impulse control to be safe alone with the dog until he is older. Can your dog jump over a gate? Could you gate off a big room and encourage him to go there to have a safe place to get away?

[NiteNicole]

I have an older dog and a kid (the dog was seven when she was born and had a really quiet life up to that point). I know it's a pain, but you do have to be with them anytime they're together, get between them when you see your child going for the dog, and keep your child off the dog beds and out of the dog food. Honestly, I just didn't find it to be all that hard. There were times when she'd get obsessed with one thing - like the water bowl or his bed - and I'd have to drag her out of it or stop her from getting into it over and over and OVER. It seemed like forever but usually it was just like, a week.

[swd12422]

I'm using the gates a little more now, and it helps, but I just hate having to keep the dog separate ALL DAY. I really like the idea of hiding treats, etc. to make it a game. I'll have to try that. The dog is 70+ pounds, so a "walk" is probably going to be a bit much! (Fun to watch for awhile, but probably not all that safe...)

The irony is that while the dog is eating, DS can (and does, before I know what's happening) put his hand in the food and pick some out. This morning, he took food right out of the dog's mouth and it doesn't faze the dog at all. And yet, if you look at him wrong while he's lying down, you get grumpiness!

It seems like the more I let DS pet the dog, the more he's doing it right, so maybe that will make the dog more tolerant once he knows he's not going to be pounced on. At least that's been the trend for the past day or so.... We'll see!