do you ever sometimes wonder....what difference will this all make?

[heartandhands]

Sometimes I really honestly just wonder....

I mean, I have done so many things to ensure a well adjusted, happy, "good" and healthy child.

We eat very healthfully (whole foods, no msg, no food colourings etc), we didnt vaccinate, I am still nursing at 21 months and we never ever did CIO. This attachment parenting approach is really hard work and to make things worse, I feel so alone. None of our friends really parent this way and even if some do some of these things, almost everyone does CIO. This is probably one of the most demanding parts for us, especially since DD only started sleeping through the night at 20 months : Before that, it was up every 3-4 hours ALL NIGHT.

I really dont care what people think bc i think/thought I was doing the superior child rearing, the better thing for my child.

However, now-DD is 21 months and is continuing with being a "spirited child" and she never listens and she hits and punches and seems to try to hurt the cat, us, other children. She whines and is fussy a lot now (which she usually hasnt been) and we have to have a meeting with the DCP next week bc of how "needy" DD is.

SO my question is: what difference is all this making? All my extra work and not doing CIO and doing BLW and everything...sometimes i just look at my friends' kids and think they seem better behaved than my DD and I just think, why why why???

I would like to have some reassurance that all of "this" is going to amount to something tangible. Of course, I wont change my parenting tomorrow just bc there is no concrete evidence that all of this creates better human beings. I would just like to know that I am not crazy for extolling the virtues of my ways of child rearing to anyone who challenges me.

I just ordered: how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk, how to become the parent you want to be, what's going on in there?, parenting through connection, no coercion etcetc..., and one other one. I have started leaving through the first one. It's sooooooo much work to train your brain to communicate the "proper way" with toddlers. It's def not my instant go-to parenting bc i was raised by yelling, screaming, emotional, mental and physical abusiveness. I really want to do the right thing. It's just soooooooo hard.

[Wild Lupine]

I hear you. I would never change my parenting style to the more mainstream practices, but I'd love to read some research about the long term effects of our practices.

I do know one woman who raised her child as you described, child-led weaning, gentle discipline, cosleeping, etc... He is 22 now and the most secure, kindest, creative person I know. Truly a wonderful human being.

[jewelsJZ]

Originally Posted by heartandhands

However, now-DD is 21 months and is continuing with being a "spirited child" and she never listens and she hits and punches and seems to try to hurt the cat, us, other children. She whines and is fussy a lot now (which she usually hasnt been) and we have to have a meeting with the DCP next week bc of how "needy" DD is.

SO my question is: what difference is all this making? All my extra work and not doing CIO and doing BLW and everything...sometimes i just look at my friends' kids and think they seem better behaved than my DD and I just think, why why why???.

This will get better! You are describing my oldest at that age. He is 5 now. Still spirited but much more listening, no more hurting others. Needy, a bit, yet, but much easier than when he was a baby and toddler. For me, the way I parent him makes a difference but it may take a long time to see the results, I may get frustrated, but eventually results are there. How much of this is due to my parenting methods and how much is due to normal developmental changes? Who knows. But I feel better about parenting him in gentle ways. I've tried doing what I see a lot of my friends do, and their kids are better behaved: time outs, or this rule and that rule, but that doesn't work for my kid.
It is so hard when your kid is the one not behaving and it seems like everyone elses kid is, it is so hard not to take that personally and ask what you might be doing wrong. I've BTDT.

[GuildJenn]

I guess I GD because I think it's right.

I also think that in the end the -whole- approach will also help to raise a moral and ethical human being whose needs have been adequately met and who will have been given the opportunity to develop self-discipline and so on and so forth.

But I don't really believe there is One True Way that will ensure a child turns out to be X well behaved at Y age.

Some kids have harder times at particular ages than others. Some families are under stresses at different times. And also, nothing works one hundred per cent.

Also, even though I don't parent with time outs, etc., I know really amazing mothers who do and I totally believe they love their kids. Like religious differences, I'm not sure I can totally agree with what they do but I really recognize that a) they are being good parents where they are at and b) it's not like I have all the answers and may be just as, or more, wrong. But right now I think I'm right. If that makes sense.

All that said, if you're miserable... something does need to change. First, it's awful to feel alone. Can you hook up with other AP parents in your area? Also, you've only had a month sleeping? It might be tiredness talking.

For the issues... I wouldn't myself recommend going all hardcore non-GD, but maybe this is your instinct kicking in that some boundaries are being crossed. From what you've described, I'm also guessing maybe your daughter needs more sensory play with you - hitting the sandbox together or playing play dough.

[meemee]

hmmm i think at 21 months its a little early for the how to talk book. but its a good book for you to read and watch out for.

being the mother of a spirited child let me tell you that spirit NEVER goes away, thank god. its what makes them special. its what makes it so hard and yet what brings me great joy later on.

and for a spirited child - with their emotional sensitivity i think they need GD more. not saying the others dont, but spirited chldren need so much more understanding from parents.

do you have raising your spirited child?

just carry on mama. you will see the difference in a few years.

so here's an example. my dd accused me of yelling too much. instead of denying it or being affronted i said well lets do a chart for me and see. and guess what. she discovered i yelled at her just one time in that month.

however it showed me how i need to watch myself. how sensitive she is to even that much of yelling.

here's the big thing about being 21 months old. repeat. repeat. repeat. it will take her at least 2 to 3 weeks to get it. all those behaviours will come and go in spurts. the last time my dd hit me was when she was a little over 5.

spirited children not only need GD but they need more. more understanding.

your dd will always stand out. my dd reminds some people of their own child and how frustrating it was. i see those 'kids' as adults now and i would be so honored if my dd turned out like them. they are outstanding in whatever they do.

[Sailor]

You know, not yet having a child (earth side), I wonder about this in an scientific sense. I'm constantly wondering whether nurture matters a whole lot in the face of nature. I guess, for me, it's the old nature versus nurture debate.

My dp is adopted, as is his brother. They're not related to one another. My dp and his brother are 2 years apart, raised by the same people. And they are TOTALLY different. His brother is seriously messed up - as a parent, as a person, as a husband. My dp is like the perfect man (seriously, lol). My dp's situation seems to me to be a good example of nature winning out.

I'm going to do gentle discipline simply because I was raised that way. So, it's what I know and what I feel is best. I'll say this - I was given a lot of freedom as a child, and it really helped me become the adult that I am. I have a high self esteem, confidence, and I am very secure in myself. I think this is from the fact that my mom always treated me with respect, never hurt me or belittled me, met my needs, and allowed me a lot of freedom to explore my world. I'm so grateful to her, and I hope I can be as patient as she was with me. I mean, I won't mince words, I was a brat. My mom must have had infinite wells of patience from which she drew, and I am SO thankful to her. We're very close now, the best of friends.

Still, the nature/nurture, does it all matter question is something I ponder in theory.

[Roxswood]

It matters. No child will have a perfect upbringing but I want mine to know that I always tried my best to treat them with respect and to show them every day just how much I love them.

I want them to grow up knowing that their Mum believes that even the tiniest weakest person should be treated with kindness and respect for their individual needs.

I have one spirited DD and she is more intense than the other children, I have one none spirited DD and she is so easy in comparison but they've been parented the same way. They were so different from birth, but my spirited DD grows more confident and relaxed as she grows.

21 months is so little, its totally normal for her to be hitting/biting/throwing stuff. Just think, she's only had a few months where she's been capable of these behaviours, thats just not long enough to learn about their effects or how better to express emotion.

[LynnS6]

It's waaaay too late and I need to go to bed, so I'll try to make this short. From someone whose kids are 8 and 5, it matters. It matters a lot.

My absolute least favorite parenting time was the year between 1 and 2. I'll take the 'terrible' twos over the 1s any day! Yes, my kids were cute and hugable, but they were HARD WORK.

When my kids are rested and well fed, they're great kids. They're helpful, kind and imaginative. We were at the grocery store this evening having a grand time. The kids were pretending that the shopping cart was a bus, and were driving it down the different 'streets' (aka aisles) with different stops, e.g., 'milk street', 'egg lane'. I'm sure the other shoppers thought we were nuts, but hey it was fun!

They didn't beg or whine for a thing. They helped put stuff in the cart. They helped load the car. They didn't complain one bit when I had to go back in the store and return the 4 boxes of cereal that I had thought were 99 cents but turned out to be $4.39 (we can't afford $17 of cereal).

Our 5 year old (dd) is quite spirited. She tries my patience daily. Sometimes hourly. She's really persistent -both negatively and positively. And it's HARD some days. But I see the pay offs slowly coming.

The problem with this kind of thing is that the payoffs don't come tomorrow, they come years down the road. I see all the hard work my sister and BIL put in with their kids and it was definitely worth it. They're college age now and great kids. At 2, you would have wondered. At 5 you may still have had doubts. But now, it's very clear that they've raised moral, caring, good people.

[Devaya]

It's lovely to hear encouraging stories about the effects of GD in the long run. I too have wondered about this, but like the OP, I guess I'd carry on doing GD b/c I feel it's right, and I can't imagine doing anything else now. I second the recommendation for 'Raising your spirited child', and also 'Raising our children, raising ourselves' - really helped me to understand the needs of children and how to provide for them respectfully - really powerful stuff, and very validating for this path.

I agree that 21 months is young, and i know how hard it is when those around you who don't GD appear to have better behaved children. I just think, it's partly a matter of temperament (My son being 'spirited') and partly I think these children are already a bit 'squashed' in their initiative and freedom, so they appear adapted but really, who knows what they feel like inside, and how it will pan out in future. I agree that no parenting approach can ever guarantee good 'behaviour' or even well-adjusted children, but sometimes we have to let go of the results and just do what we feel is right- I think the reward is in the process too. And to the OP, yes, I also struggle sometimes to talk 'the right way' to a toddler - at the moment I'm trying to just think 'would I say this to a friend'? Hard, but keeps me being more respectful.

[treehugginhippie]

subbing

[aiea]

Another example of GD in the long run...

I met a homeschooling family when I was in jr high. I was mainstream, they were not. I could not figure out what the heck was different about them, except that I longed for that *something*.

Looking back, I can see that they were secure in themselves, I wasn't. They were honest and forthright, while I only knew how to play games, use sarcasm and guilt. I could only use what tools I'd been given... and I have spent my adult life untangling that and then learning what I want to teach my kids.

I think in the short run it's very easy to compare kids (like I did only a week ago with my DD and her visiting cousin) and think... Why are we doing this? Both DD and her cousin act similarly, at least for now. I think it's an investment. We'll reap rewards later.

[54321]

Hi there-

new to forum..what is CIO and BLW-

That being said (or asked) I was here several years ago for a bit and gentle discpline, redirecting etc have been our style.

The 2s were HARD for me. My DD was (and is) in that "spirited" category.

Hang in there- the 2s (in my opinion) involve many things that are frustrating. I, too, shook my head when other little ones who I knew were raised differently were compliant and quiet and my little one was loud and screamed for a period and hit and bit.

AHHHHH! was how I thought and I thought I was failing.

I love the last post where the poster shares the internal...WOW. My DD is 6 now. There are things I want to work on, but I never would take back the striving to parent this way-

Support to you!!

Lisa

[Roxswood]

CIO is cry it out and BLW is baby led weaning

[transformed]

Sometimes I think that its all a hobby for the parents(Moms more so than dads) more than actually making a huge difference in the outcome of the child.

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by heartandhands

Sometimes I really honestly just wonder....

SO my question is: what difference is all this making? All my extra work and not doing CIO and doing BLW and everything...sometimes i just look at my friends' kids and think they seem better behaved than my DD and I just think, why why why???

First, they are probably just different kids, and second, children who are unsure of their parent's love will do more to please. It seems sort of counter intuitive, I guess, but the secure ones are the ones who act out. They are also the ones who learn how to deal with all of the negative emotions that come along with learning independence, and can actually achieve independence in the long run.

Mine is spirited too, and we are only at 28 months, but it is already getting lots better. We still have a long way to go, but we've noticed a huge difference just in the last few months.

[newcastlemama]

I do these things (gentle discipline ect) because they seem like the right thing to do..not necessarily looking for an outcome. For example, I don't do CIO because I think that is a wrong way to treat a person. I have been encouraged that CIO is the only way since dd is 18 months and she just started sleeping a few days ago after being a frequent night nurser. (I night weaned her by cuddling/walking around with her instead of nursing)She slept through the night without CIO so it can be done! She is very "clingy" too but she will eventually become more independent in her own time.

I do have a vision of rasing great people, but I can only control my behavior towards them..I am not in total control of who they become if that makes sense!

My ds is 5 and I also recommend the Raising Your Spirited Child. When he was younger it was harder. Now that we communicate better and I have some tools things are much easier.

[heartandhands]

thank you everyone, for the positive feedback and for sharing thoughts and ideas. I did actually order the "raising your spirited child" and am going to start reading it tonight. i got sidetracked with the "what's going on in there" book. soooooooo interesting! however, not all that helpful for what we are going through at the moment.

I am reassured that DD's behaviour is normal and I am encouraged and reaffirmed in my parenting approach. thanks

[choli]

Originally Posted by transformed

Sometimes I think that its all a hobby for the parents(Moms more so than dads) more than actually making a huge difference in the outcome of the child.

I sometimes think that too. Most of the young adult children of my friends seem to have turned out fine, no matter what style of parenting was used on them. There are a few who do seem to have some serious problems, but again, evenly distributed among the parenting styles. Just as the ones who had McDs regularly seem to be just as healthy as the ones obsessively monitored for the "health" of their diet.

I don't really go for all of this labelling anyway. I prefer to think of myself as an instinctual parent rather than AP, and I don't think that my was is superior to anyone else's way. It's just my way.

[transformed]

true - I think in my case its more of a "grin and Bear it" situation.

[Devaya]

Originally Posted by choli

I sometimes think that too. Most of the young adult children of my friends seem to have turned out fine, no matter what style of parenting was used on them. There are a few who do seem to have some serious problems, but again, evenly distributed among the parenting styles. Just as the ones who had McDs regularly seem to be just as healthy as the ones obsessively monitored for the "health" of their diet.

I don't really go for all of this labelling anyway. I prefer to think of myself as an instinctual parent rather than AP, and I don't think that my was is superior to anyone else's way. It's just my way.

I agree about the labelling stuff - something to beware of , I think.

But I don't think just because people seem fine on the outside, that they necessarily really are, you know? Most of my friends seem very well-adjusted, nice, 'together', people, confident etc - but they have done things like end up in destructive relationships, or just simply struggle with certain parts of themselves that they feel were never accepted by their parents. There's no way of having a 'perfect' upbringing, but I think it DOES make a difference if you feel accepted and loved as you are - i.e. unconditionally - and that your outward behaviour of being 'ok' can just be a facade, something you've developed because people like it and it's seen as normal, not really who you are. I don't know if that makes any sense!