My head is in the sand - confession/rant

[D'sMama]

I'm paralyzed by the thought of vaccines. I've been lurking on the Vax boards here for awhile, went to a lecture, checked out several links, read some vax inserts, read the Sears Vaccine Book, etc. But I'm overwhelmed by the data and the conflicting information and the politics and social pressure and my mother who remembers polio and acts appalled that I don't think it's important now that NO ONE in most countries gets it, my sister who researches everything else (and IS a researcher, for crying out loud) but just merrily took her DD in for her "shots" like it was nothing, and my DH who loves to listen to doctors and hates to challenge the status quo. Then there's my ped who has a passive-aggressive way about her and claims to respect my hesitancy and desire to delay but still raves about how important vaccines are and then turns to DH attempting to triangulate between us : and then says how it's soooo much better to do them as babies because it's so awful (for her) to vax older kids whose parents waited since then they really dread coming to the doctor's office .

I'm overwhelmed. And scared. Scared to vax, scared to not vax. But I don't want to make decisions out of fear. I also don't want to keep my head in the sand forever because I'm messing with my kid's life here.

DS is 7 months. He's had Hib at 3 months, Prevnar at 4 months, DTaP at 5 months, and Hib again at 6 months. That's it so far. At the very least, I wanted to space them out, do one at a time, and watch for reactions. And I only wanted to do the ones where I was remotely worried about the diseases, although he's breastfed and won't ever be in daycare and only around other babies/kids for a couple hours a week, so honestly, he's low risk and I'm not at all worried about any of the diseases. FWIW, the only reaction he had was a red lump and 10 days of green diarrhea immediately after the DTaP that may or may not have had anything to do with it.

Now I'm starting to get icky feelings. I just have this creepy-crawly feeling about vaccinations now - maybe it's because I'm generally very hands-off, leave-it-to-nature with everything else (i.e. no circ, no prenatal tests, no ultrasounds, homebirth, no eye gunk, etc. it was pulling teeth for me to do the GBS swab). Mandated vaccines grate on me, philosophically. My instinct tells me to not do them. I feel like vaccinations can be good at certain times and situations (like eradicating polio), but now it's gotten so out of hand politically that I feel coerced into getting them by the government, which REALLY bothers me. I live in NY state and we have no philosophical exemption here. I would have to claim religious exemption, and I'm not even sure how to do that since I have no religion. And the whole exemption thing pisses me off too - why should I have to get anyone else's permission to choose whether or not to inject my child? And why does it have to be all or nothing? If I finagle a religious exemption, then that's it. DS and my future children will have to have NO vaccines (correct me if I'm wrong), which also makes me feel stuck, in case I ever want to get him one. But for crying out loud - why should my kid have to get a frickin Hep B and chicken pox vaccine to go to kindergarten?! I mean, chicken pox, really? NY requires EVERYTHING except Rotavirus.

So I don't know what to do. On the one hand, I may end up homeschooling. I'm very interested in it, but DH is highly skeptical and I'd still like the option of school in case DS wants to go to school. What happens if I don't give him any more vaccines? Would he have to get them all at once before starting school? What happens if/when he applies for college? I remember having to send my vax records for college, and finding it odd that they required the shots to have happened at certain ages.

I just find this whole thing so stressful, and I am SO incredibly impressed with you mamas who do years of research and really study this stuff.

Any advice, commiserating, suggestions, etc. would be more than welcome. Thanks, mamas.

[Tiffany_in_ga]

No advice, just a "me too". I've gone over and over and over the info until my eyes hurt. I'm terrified either way. My baby is 2.5 months and no vaxes so far...I was seriously considering DTaP, but after talking it over with DH we've set it aside. PC and Hib I feel can wait awhile, so I'm not stressing about those just yet. And the rest that she's due for were no brainers for me. But I feel you, I really do. I read reports of kids having severe cases of pertussis and it FREAKS me out. Then I read reports of severe DTaP reactions and it FREAKS me out. Ugh.

[emma1325]

I can totally relate to your feelings on getting "permission" to not inject pharma products into your child. It's total and utter BS.

As for your concern about your child needing all the shots before school, I wanted to mention this. If you wait until your child is older to do any more, there will be less shots to do. It's not like you will have to catch up on the exact number of shots that he has missed. It will have been reduced to a smaller number of vaccines...which you could spread out by several months if you started within a year or two of starting school. And, if you wait until *right* before school to even start the shots, the school will let you in if you are *in the process* of complying with the shot schedule, as far as I understand. If someone knows differently about NY, please correct me!

As far as filing religious exemption and not being able to do any shots if you want to in the future, I personally would file the exemption and worry about the other part later. The first thing to do is protect your right to follow your instincts, which right now it seems you don't want to do vaccines. If you reach a point later in which you want to do one or more shots, you can probably figure out a way to get the shots without compromising your religious exemption. There's a lot of discussion on that issue here on MDC, as I'm sure you've noticed. It may be tricky in NY, but I'm sure there's some kind of sneaky way to get the shots you want w/o losing the exemption. lol And, if you file exemption, and then decide to do more shots, but happen to lose your exemption, you will be no worse off than you are now...if that makes any sense. It's late...lol.

Good luck on making your decision!

[Emmeline II]

School is school; he can use an exemption for college as well. If he later went to school and you wanted to vaccinate you may be able to get away with a letter from your Dr. that says he will be getting vaccines on a particular schedule due to health concerns. Or perhaps you could take him out of state so he is not on the NY vax registry.

Not vaccinating is the default position. You should need to be convinced TO vaccinate; not the other way around. What are the compelling reasons to inject these drugs into your child?

Vaccines-The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY
YOUTUBE: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[Emmeline II]

Your religious beliefs can change, so you can exempt a previously vaxed child. You could also pretend your child is not vaxed to make life easier.


Some states, like NY(contact Gary Krasner for help -- On the NYS form they request that your letter:

-explains why are you are requesting the exemption
-describes the religious principles that guide your objection to vaxes
-indicates whether you are opposed to all vaxes, and if not, why you are opposed to some vaxes but not others

As long as your letter covered those 3 points then they shouldn't ask for any "supporting evidence".)


and NJ allow the state to question the sincerity of your beliefs; the following is VERY important.



-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.

-Also, you DO NOT have to be a member of a religion doctrinally opposed to vaccination. You can be Wiccan, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, church of the flip flops, and still claim a religious exemption do to your personal religious beliefs against the practice of vaccination. Dr. Mercola does a good job of explaining this in my Religious Exemptions link below (you may have to register to read it).

-One more thing, you do not want to include specific biblical verses as your interpretation could be challenged. You need to describe your personal religious beliefs.


-Require that all questions regarding your exemption be in writing and give answers in writing. Do not give verbal responses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religious Exemptions

The Wexler Decision

To find out what exemptions are offered by your state (for school and such) check here:
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/sta...uirements.aspx
http://www.novaccine.com/law-exemptions/


All states except West Virginia and Mississippi offer religious and/or philosophical exemptions, and the supreme court ruled that you do not have to belong to a non-vaxing religion or have clergy sign your religious exemption. Exemptions can be submitted in lieu of vaccination records (I would do it this way).

State mandatory vaccination laws have their roots in the 1905 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Jacobsen v Massachusetts. A Swedish Lutheran pastor, Reverend Henning Jacobsen and his son objected to a law requiring revaccination with smallpox vaccine because they had suffered severe reactions to the first vaccination. The nine Supreme Court justices at the turn of the century denied Jacobsen and his lawyers the right to present scientific evidence for harm caused by the smallpox vaccine, preferring to believe the lawyers representing public health officials who convinced them that doctors could predict ahead of time who would be injured by vaccination.

100wds.



A US Federal Court ruling (binding on NY only) that determined that you do not have to belong to a particular religion to use a religious exemption is:
Sherr v. Northport-East Northport Union Free Sch. Dist., 672 F. Supp. 81, 89-90 (E.D. N.Y. 1987)
http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/consent.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/...es_chptr13.htm

Sample Religious Exemption Letter(change the state law reference):

Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, PUBLIC HEALTH LAW, ARTICLE 21. CONTROL OF ACUTE COMMUNICABLE DISEASES,TITLE VI. POLIOMYELITIS AND OTHER DISEASES, NY CLS Pub Health § 2164 (2002), to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, ALL injections, prophylaxis, & testing due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.

The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

[KoalaMommy]

I was getting those feelings when I was getting ready to start vaccinating my DD1 at 4 months. I had developed a plan with my supportive doctor, but I was feeling icky about it. So I sat down with my DH and I just asked him to read some of the information I had been reading. I let him know how much this issue was eating at me, and so he was willing to try and understand.

He did, and we came up with a plan to vax starting at age 2, and that I would just nurse as long as I could to protect the kids.

Remarkably, as time went on, and we got horrible pressure from his parents (his mother accused me of murdering her grandchildren even though my kids have been the picture of health), my DH got more supportive. He gets outraged by aggressive vax campaigns. And though we agreed to mostly vax the kids starting at age 2, I've become very lax about getting those shots, neither had had one in about a year when they got their last.

Open communication can help. Forming a plan in your mind can help too. Most of all, if you get a gut-wrenching feeling that you don't want to do this to your baby, you shouldn't. I believe we have those feelings for a reason. And I think that most people just don't think about the situation when it comes to vaxes because they're pressured not to.

I would look at finding a supportive doc as well. Sometimes family doctors are more supportive than pediatricians. We briefly went to a practice where they accepted non-vax kids but weren't supportive, and I had a horrible time there, so since then, I search out only supportive doctors and find the conversation either never comes up, or is generally supportive, or at least non-argumentative.

You need someone on your side in this situation!

[Scattershoot]

Remarkably, as time went on, and we got horrible pressure from his parents (his mother accused me of murdering her grandchildren even though my kids have been the picture of health)

This is one of my favorite parts of the vaccine belief system. A non-vaxed child can literally never get sick and somehow that child is a danger to babies, the elderly, dogs, cats, pencils and the future of all existance on this planet, but a vaxed child who has asthma, tonsils and adenoids removed, skin problems, digestive problems, a fairly constant runny nose, attention problems and allergies galore is the picture of health and no concern at all.

An unvaxed child could live to be 97 years old and at the time of death someone will say, "See I told you that not being vaxed would eventually cause that person to die." At the same time, this person who made this comment had vaxed friends and relatives die before the age of 70 of cancer, diabetes complications, heart disease, some strange autoimmune condition, etc, and never once think that all the nastiness received throughout life in the vaccinations had anything to do with any health problems at all.

[sapphire_chan]

I *was* vaxed and had problems with my college because I hadn't had them in the right order. (Something like two MMR shots before age 1 or something stupid.) I told the office I'd call the doctor's office again to find out what was going on then walked back in and put down a made-up date.

[Marnica]

Listen to your gut