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Peanut Allergies and Peanut-Free Schools - Page 5

post #81 of 119
Thread Starter 
P.S. Thanks Piglet68 for just locking the thread temporarily instead of removing it! I'm with Clarity in that I appreciate that .
post #82 of 119
I also agree that nobody here has said they wouldn't comply with the peanut-free policy, so I fail to see how that is "paying lip service." I did say that I would continue cooking with peanut oil in my own home for food we consume there. I do not send anything that has been cooked in the oil to school with dd, and I do wash my hands.

Complying with my dd's school's policy is not "an easy step." It is a very time consuming step. I must shop armed with the school's list of acceptable foods and I must read every stupid label of everything, even if it is something I've bought before, because the school's instructions say that manufacturers change ingredients and processing methods, which is probably true.

It is also a step that costs me money, as many of the brands that the school recommends cost more than the brands of things I normally buy. It doesn't cost a huge amount and I can afford it, but I'm sure there are others in the school for whom it is an issue.

Quite frankly, I worry about litigation. Suppose, despite my spending extra hours in the grocery store, I manage to send in peanut contaminants. I have a very definite feeling that if it were traced to me, I would have a lawsuit on my hands.
post #83 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by aussiemum

Anothermama, if a child ran out into a street & his mum was right there, would you let him get hit by a car because it's the mum's responsibility to look out for him? That's a rhetorical question, btw.....

Some folks do not have the option to homeschool. Some folks don't want to homeschool. They have a right to have their child safe in a public school, IMO.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do anything...but really...put yourself in the situation.......I've seen stuff like this on these boards even.
A mom stands right next to you and does something like that.....lets her kid run into a street with trafic or leaves a small toddler in a grocery cart and walks away. In REALITY you'd really question what to do....I've seen many moms come on boards like this and say things like "I felt like I should do something, but I didn't want to butt in cause his mom was standing right there" or something like that.

I *do* feel a sense of responsibility towards others. I cannot STAND being in a restaurant or public place where someone is letting a baby CIO because I just ITCH to pick that baby up. BUT...not my child, not my parenting choice if that parent is right there and able to take care of their child themselves.

As with this....sure I feel a sense of responsibility...as I've said, I'd probably bend over backwards if it was a friend of my DD's or something. However, FORCING responsibility for your child onto another is wrong, even if they are good caring people. Thats all I mean.

And, to be honest...aren't rich. I'm not "privaleged" like some people in this thread have implied. But you know what? If my kid had something that COULD KILL HIM like this? Well, it would be a consideration...a LARGE consideration of mine...that maybe I should sacrafice more for this child...maybe I needed to either send him to private school or whatnot. Or I'd probably fight like the dickens to get him in a charter school with teeny classes or get him a private tutor from the public school.
post #84 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by oceanbaby
Whatever. I don't know how much clearer I can state that I would do whatever I possibly could to make sure my child did not bring any peanut products in their school. Lip service is saying you will do something and then not doing it.

The parents of peanut allergic children themselves have said they feel inconvenienced by having to take precautions. But I'm somehow selfish and inconsiderate because I might also feel inconvenienced while taking the same precautions? Talk about not listening to another's position.
ocean...
FWIW, I hear ya loud and clear. I hear exactly what you are saying and I think you've really really made some wonderful points.
post #85 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by pumpkinhead
anothermama,

Do we not cater to minorities everyday in our lives? Do store and schools not have wheelchair access ramps? Do our payphones not have volume controls for the hearing impaired? Do our elevators not have brail beside the number keys? Most schools have to install elevators and ramps if there is just one child who requires them. Perhaps all of these things do not inconvenience us per se, but they do inconvenience us in that they utilize funds from our taxpayer dollars. They are also cases of entire institutions catering to minorities.

Please know, I am not trying to annoy you here. Just trying to maintain an intelligent debate.


One difference: life threatening. And since when did allergies become a disability? (Seriously...many moms here are comparing...I wasn't aware I become disabled every spring...).

The school putting in a one time fix...an access ramp...doesn't really mean a thing to me and it isn't putting ANY responsibility on anyone. It solves a problem. Little Joey can't get into his class? BOOM! Ramp in, problem solved.

AND.....(I know this cause I came from one) in schools where they can't for whatever reason, the schools are allowed to make reasonable adjustments, such as has been mentioned, givng the kid a tutor in another accessible room.

AND......what I started with...if Little Joey doesn't get into his class that day, it's not gonna kill him.

We're talking life threatening. Just as schools with severely Bee allerigic children do not cut recess, why should schools with severely nut allergic children start cutting things? It's not something that can be fixed at the school level anyhow and in creating a rule to try to alleviate the parents responsibility, you automatically make EVERYONE in that community shoulder the responsibility, if they want to or not. And the problem is still there. It's not like doing this will make the allergy go away. It will still be there AND NOW the parents can SUE if they want to. Yucky.
post #86 of 119
Coming to this late

Okay, first, of course I would comply with a "peanut free zone". I do think that asking parents to not pack lunches w/peanut products isn't a hardship. However, there are alot of things processed in plants that process peanuts, and if the allergic child is so sensitive that they can't be exposed to those foods as well, then I think there needs to be another solution; as I don't think parents, grandparents, caregivers, kids, etc. are going to go the extra mile 100% off the time, like EFmom does. Not because they don't care, but because of human error. So, in that case, I don't think a regular public school setting, even peanut free, is safe for a child that allergic. I think the child should get a home tutor (provided by the public school); or a private room and one on one teacher at the school; as that will be a much better guarantee that the child isn't going to be exposed to peanut residue.

My .02


Kristi
post #87 of 119
I've looked at about a dozen school handbook in the last 3 weeks. Many of them forbid peanut-containing product, but none went so far as "may contain trace amounts of peanuts" product. So I would say that level is quite a bit farther than most schools are, unless it's for in-class snacks and party foods that the child would be closer to or be allowed to consume. In our preschool, the allergic child's mom packs separate snacks, and does all-class snack more often, but no in school food can overtly nut-containing. The theory is that "trace amounts" are only a major concern if the child is touching or eating them since it's a minute quantity. Combined of course with table and hand washing.

Some label reading is just to catch the obvious -like snickers bars have nuts. people forget. But to the extent of listings brands, etc. Most school policy I've looked at (mostly private and two public elementary) are nowhere near that far. One preschool did remind people that the Nature Valley oats and honey granola bars have nuts, but another flavor is ok or something like that that's easy to miss if you don't read labels.
post #88 of 119
When an allergy is life threatening, it is very well a disability. This isn't just stuffy noses, runny eyes, sinus headaches- this is hospitalization or death, within a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone is saying peanut free is solving the problem, nor is it giving parents peace of mind because they know that any day there could be an innocent mistake.

Yes, it is putting some responsiblities on others, but if you don't want to change your lifestyle and accept the responsiblity to accomodate the needs of the highly allergic student, pull your own child out of school and homeschool- that's your right. Putting out a letter to keep peanuts out of school isn't accomodating a 'whim' of the child and parent, it is helping reduce the chance of death.

Putting your child in a carseat isn't going to guarantee they will survive a crash, but it will greatly increase their chances. Just like removing peanuts won't guarantee an allergic reation won't happen, but it will greatly reduce the chances.
post #89 of 119
Quote:
One difference: life threatening. And since when did allergies become a disability?
Wow. That's not even up for discussion. A peanut allergy that severe (which is a little different than hay fever, I might add) is clearly listed by the ADA as a disability.

This is what I don't understand. There seems to be a group within this discussion that thinks peanut allergy children should be homeschooled, tutored, private schooled, whatever...I'm just wondering, how do you feel about allowing other children with disablilitie into the classroom? Do you feel they should be homeschooled as well?

The second thing I don't understand is if you don't feel the allergy is a disability, why should the child be homeschooled? Obviously they can still function at the level of all the other children. They are still learning, playing and interacting the same. I don't understand this reasoning for homeschooling. Plenty of children with peanut allergies go to public school--and are fine, as long as the school complies with certain things....What's such a big deal about that?

Yes, of course everyone agrees that if a school went peanut free, that they would comply with it. I don't think that that's what people on the other fence are getting so upset about. I thinkl what's happening here is that there is a deeper dynamic at play here about children with disablilites---and where they belong. Why should someone who is a little different have to stay home, or go to private school??? That's just not fair.

I'd like you to think about this. Our children learn their prejudices from us. If they hear and see you undercutting someone's disability (like saying it doesn't exist), or saying that a child with an allergy should be homeschooled, what would your child think?
How would they interact with a disabled person next time one came around?

I believe that having schools change their policies to make it safer for allergic children benefits all. It allows the peanut alergic child to socialize in a school setting with his/her peers, and it teaches all the other children a huge lesson, in giving, compassion, and *acceptance*. I have to say, I'm a little surprised at the tone this thread has taken, especially at Mothering. Disabled people are still one of the most underpriveleged people in our country. And yes, thinking their disability is not a disability is a form of prejudice. Just something to think about.

Glad this thread is back
post #90 of 119
Just want to clarify; I only think a child should be taught privately if they have so severe of an allergy that even products containing trace peanut residue (like peanuts are processed in the same plant but not actually in the product) will kill them. And I feel this way for the child's safety, not for convience of other children.


Kristi
post #91 of 119
Thread Starter 
grisandole,

You've just described a huge percentage of those who are peanut allergic. This thing about this allergy is that those who have it react with moderate to severe anaphylaxsis upon even minute exposure. These children do just fine, for the most part, in peanut free classrooms/zones.

No one can prevent accidents! NO ONE! But accidents happen to all of us regardless of the most careful planning. I don't think children should be isolated from their peers just becaause an accident *could* happen. If this were so, we'd never let any of our children do anything ever! It's like saying : I'm not going to let little jenny go to the play ground every because the possibility that she might fall off the monkey bars is too great.
post #92 of 119
I think it's a pretty big risk to be in a public school setting if a child is that allergic. Really. Because that's an awful lot of trust to put into so many people......What if, despite a mamas best efforts, her kid snuck some peanut butter on the way to school, and she didn't know; and didn't wash his hands.......then what?

I'm just saying that the kids should have other options, for their safety. I wouldn't send my kid to public school if they were that allergic.

And you can't have it both ways, you can's say "Everything must change for my child, it's safety, a life or death situation" and then say "well, nothings 100%, my kid shouldn't be excluded" ????

I just see potentially dying from a whiff of something produced in a facility that also processes peanuts, as a very serious allergy. And why gamble with that childs life by expsoing them to hundereds of people who may not have been careful enough?

About the "right" to an education, sure everyone has that right. But I don't see why having a teacher come to the house, where it's safe and the parent can monitor the situation, is a bad thing???

Kristi
post #93 of 119
A tutor for the child would be wonderful, in a perfect world. But what if the parent can't stay home, or what if the child doesn't want to be homeschooled?? I see your reasoning in this, and I even agree with you a little. If that is what works for a family, then fine. But its not fair for everyone.
post #94 of 119
Well, a teacher isn't the same as homeschool. And just because the child doesn't want it, doesn't mean they should go to a potentially deadly environment.

As for working; presumably, if the parent is working, they are paying for child care, so why can't they continue to pay for child care once the child is of school age? Like once the teacher leaves, the child care provider comes over? And the teacher would be paid by the school district, so no extra money needed there.

I homeschooled and worked; I had an excellent nanny who did some of the hs stuff with ds1, and then when I got home I did some with him, too. It can be done.


Kristi
post #95 of 119
That would be a great solution, if that's what the family wanted.

Just to add, I was "homeschooled", or whatever you wanted to call it by a district teacher. She only visited about once a week, for about three hours. That left a lot of time home alone for me. (I was in highschool)

I also, think that it might be hard for a lower income family to afford a full time nanny. That's what you'd need, because I don't think a child care center would accept a school age child full time. And a nanny is ALOT more pricey than a child care center -and maybe not even subsidized.

I'm starting to get tired of arguing...I feel this conversation is going nowhere. See ya all,
post #96 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by dreadmama
I don't understand why it is better for a private school to ban peanuts over a public school? And there would be the same inconsistancies with a private school as with public schools (parents bringing or sending products with peanuts, etc.).
This is a no brainer for me!


I pm-ed you my answer to this, but for the sake of answering questions in the thread, I will reiterate here.

Both my kid's schools are tiny, and intensely community oriented. The one she went to for the first 6 years was completely parent run. We did *everything* So my prejudice is, and I didn't realize it till you pointed it out, that private schools were going to be smaller, and more understanding, and the parents there were going to be slightly more careful because they *know* you.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. The schools my kids went to/are currently attending are pretty unique, and I WOULD feel safe, having explained face to face with intensely AP type parents of all 6 kids in her class.

Sorry. I let my prejudice for small school co-ops show there. That's why it was a no brainer for me. I guess if you choose a huge, normal private school there wouldn't be any difference.

And I truly do not wish to argue with you, upset you, or imply that you are a bad parent, but I couldn't do it.

Edited to add: The parents of the allergic child in my dd's class sent home PAGES of lists of things that couldn't go into the classroom. And I do mean PAGES. I was overwhelmed when I got the thing and found half of my persnickety ten year old's diet on there.

Of course we use the guide, who wouldn't? But I have to tell you, it makes me *really* nervous. If he could really pop his clogs cause my kid's eating a granola bar that might have peanut dust in it cause the other granola bars made in the same facility have peanut dust in them.....that's WAY too much responsibility for me to have to assume.

I'm not callous. I'm not a horrible person. I'm scared to death for your (generic you) kid.

Use the car analogy. I would be the mother watching YOU to make sure YOU are watching the child., and I'm also the one who puts herself between your kid and the road without saying a word. I do it, but man......

Ok, I'm shutting up now. Blast me if you have to.
post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by shelbean91
When an allergy is life threatening, it is very well a disability. This isn't just stuffy noses, runny eyes, sinus headaches- this is hospitalization or death, within a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone is saying peanut free is solving the problem, nor is it giving parents peace of mind because they know that any day there could be an innocent mistake.

Yes, it is putting some responsiblities on others, but if you don't want to change your lifestyle and accept the responsiblity to accomodate the needs of the highly allergic student, pull your own child out of school and homeschool- that's your right. Putting out a letter to keep peanuts out of school isn't accomodating a 'whim' of the child and parent, it is helping reduce the chance of death.

Putting your child in a carseat isn't going to guarantee they will survive a crash, but it will greatly increase their chances. Just like removing peanuts won't guarantee an allergic reation won't happen, but it will greatly reduce the chances.
I don't understand WHY its a disability....there are lots of other allergies than can cause hospitilization. It's catering to a really small minority. Period. It's forcing responsibility and NOT NOT NOT solving an issue. Period.

Putting my child in a carseat is my choice. I'm not asking the Department of Transportation to provide me a carseat for my child. I do it, I pay for it. My responsibility.
post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by mamamaya


This is what I don't understand. There seems to be a group within this discussion that thinks peanut allergy children should be homeschooled, tutored, private schooled, whatever...I'm just wondering, how do you feel about allowing other children with disablilitie into the classroom? Do you feel they should be homeschooled as well?

The second thing I don't understand is if you don't feel the allergy is a disability, why should the child be homeschooled?

I don't think that that's what people on the other fence are
getting so upset about. I thinkl what's happening here is that there is a deeper dynamic at play here about children with disablilites---and where they belong. Why should someone who is a little different have to stay home, or go to private school???



Glad this thread is back


Ew ew ew ew ew.
Yuck yuck yuck!!!!!!!!! Coming from the perspective being a minority AND having a disability...ew.......I'm really really offended that you tried to play this card. I have a very very yucky feeling about this....

So...back up your statements..........where in any part of this thread does anyone say "These kids should be homeschooled.". I can't find it. I know *I* said that even if I couldn't afford it, which I can't, it would make me think about doing it for MY kid.

I don't care where anyone goes to school. I don't see anyone, in fact, saying otherwise.

Ugh. Thats all I'm going to say because I'm very very very upset that someone tried to throw around the discrimination card.
post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by pumpkinhead
grisandole,

You've just described a huge percentage of those who are peanut allergic. This thing about this allergy is that those who have it react with moderate to severe anaphylaxsis upon even minute exposure. These children do just fine, for the most part, in peanut free classrooms/zones.

No one can prevent accidents! NO ONE! But accidents happen to all of us regardless of the most careful planning. I don't think children should be isolated from their peers just becaause an accident *could* happen. If this were so, we'd never let any of our children do anything ever! It's like saying : I'm not going to let little jenny go to the play ground every because the possibility that she might fall off the monkey bars is too great.

Your SOOO right! And making a RULE about it in public schools is ALSO like saying "We can't let the kids play on the monkey bars...they might get hurt" or "We can't let them play outside...they'll get struck by lightning". Just as parents have to weight the risks for their families, they have to do it when picking schools and sending their kids to school. And if you have a peanut allergic child, you have to weigh that risk in sending your child to school...........but it's not fair to force that descion on others.
post #100 of 119
A child at my brother's school died from a allergic peanut reaction a few years ago. Apparently, a child who ate lunch before him had a peanut butter sandwich, and the leftover residue caused his allergic reaction. At the time, the school did not have a peanut free policy...they have since switched to being peanut free. I think that most of the families are more than happy to deal with the minor inconvenience to protect other potentially allergic children at the school.

At my daughter's kindergarden, there is also a policy to protect the allergic children. Snacks and birthday treats must be free of peanuts, dairy, and egg (which several children are allergic to). Homemade birthday treats are not allowed. Personally, I really do not mind this policy at all...the teachers provide a list of acceptable snacks, and include many more whole foods (fruits, veggies, etc). In fact, I like that all the children are able to participate and nobody feels left out. It creates a feeling of community in the classroom.
Christy
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