Need some encouragement, please

[mynameisMom]

I am falling apart and I could use some hugs and encouragement, please. I have felt my milk supply has been slowly decreasing lately and just now we packed up the entire family to go to a relative's house and the baby was crying so hard and so long because he was hungry that the older kids couldn't stand being shut in the car with him any longer and we turned around and came home when we were halfway there. I nursed him when we got home and he was frustrated and fussy pulling off all the time and eventually spit up most of what little I gave him. When he fell asleep at last I tried to pump and got about a quarter ounce total. DH is giving him a bottle of formula right now and I am just up here crying and so sad. I started on fenugreek and I am drinking a ton of water and I know stressing doesn't help but I feel so low right now, like I am letting him and everybody else down. I had to call my relatives and explain (without all the details) that we just weren't going to make it and I felt so incompetent. Plus the older kids are mad at the baby now which doesn't help.

I have a question too about the pump, I saw in the brochure that came with it (Medela PIS Advanced) about the proper fit of the shields ... is your nipple really supposed to fill up the tube part of the shield? The standard ones with it are 24mm and big around as a penny. I thought I had big nipples but no way are they that big. Maybe I should get smaller shields and the pump would work better.

[Happily Blessed]

How old is your babe? Yes, the shields make quite a bit of difference on what you output. But also not being stressed, too, that effects the output. So, get you some nice oatmeal - either cereal style or cookies, fenugreek, blessed thistle (?) I think, goat's rue works great in combination, a good calcium and lots of water.

It sounds like a very stressful situation. Are you able to do a time when its just you and babe in bed, relaxed, and letting them nurse as needed? That helps to bring back the supply. If all else fails its okay to supplement with formula if necessary. Don't beat yourself up about it.

God bless you and you are doing great, Momma!

Hang in there!!

[mynameisMom]

thank you for the reply, I feel like somebody cares! My baby is almost 10 weeks, I would swear he is teething already and that's part of the problem, he has started crying a lot more and doesn't want to nurse. Less nursing, less milk, less milk, more hunger, more hunger, more crying ... I feel like I am losing it.

I just read the Amazon reviews for the smaller breast shields and it sounds like, if that is the problem, the fit really makes a difference. I will order some, hopefully pumping will be more productive and get me out of this rut.

[baileyandmikey]

(((HUGS))) Stress will affect your supply. Try to relax, and just keep nursing. If you can, spend an entire day in bed with the baby and nurse all day Do not give up!

[birdie22]

If you suspect teething, it very well could be the case. Mama is often the first to know, and it can start really early. DS1 got a side tooth at 2 mos. If it was me, I would try either homeopathic teething tablets (such as Hylands) or even a dose of Tylenol, considering the severity of the situation. If it helps him latch more comfortably, it will be worth it.

It's tough to go out with a baby, especially if the older sibs are not understanding about the inconvenience. I remember quite a few times with ds1 at that age, when we either canceled plans, turned down invitations, or left early because he just wasn't having it. At least four times, we actually had to ask a waitress to make our food "to go" after ordering, because it was clear we were disrupting the restaurant. It happens, and some babies are more demanding than others.

Regarding your other question, I used an Avent pump, and no way did my nipples fill up the tubes. JME, tho. I'm no expert on pumping.

[HappyHappyMommy]

Hang in there!

Dear My name is Mom,

First: .

Originally Posted by mynameisMom

I am falling apart and I could use some hugs and encouragement, please. I have felt my milk supply has been slowly decreasing lately and just now we packed up the entire family to go to a relative's house and the baby was crying so hard and so long because he was hungry that the older kids couldn't stand being shut in the car with him any longer and we turned around and came home when we were halfway there. I nursed him when we got home and he was frustrated and fussy pulling off all the time and eventually spit up most of what little I gave him. When he fell asleep at last I tried to pump and got about a quarter ounce total. DH is giving him a bottle of formula right now and I am just up here crying and so sad. I started on fenugreek and I am drinking a ton of water and I know stressing doesn't help but I feel so low right now, like I am letting him and everybody else down. I had to call my relatives and explain (without all the details) that we just weren't going to make it and I felt so incompetent. Plus the older kids are mad at the baby now which doesn't help.

I have a question too about the pump, I saw in the brochure that came with it (Medela PIS Advanced) about the proper fit of the shields ... is your nipple really supposed to fill up the tube part of the shield? The standard ones with it are 24mm and big around as a penny. I thought I had big nipples but no way are they that big. Maybe I should get smaller shields and the pump would work better.

I remember having to change plans many times because of my baby's schedule and how hard that was...especially explaining it to others! Please know that you are giving your baby such a wonderful gift by letting him be on his schedule and taking things at his pace at this age.

In terms of the fussiness, it sounds like it could be teething (which can happen at 10 weeks or earlier in some cases). It might also be a growth spurt. My baby was always extra fussy during her growth spurts. If that's the case, hopefully as the growth spurt passes, so will the fussiness.

Regarding pumping, I'm an exclusive pumper (due to my baby's medical issues) and can offer a few tips on that. First, stress always affects my supply when pumping. For me, I find it easiest to pump if I'm distracted. Do you have a band to allow you to pump hands-free? If so, I'd try reading a magazine, talking on the phone, watching TV, websurfing, playing a game with your other kids, or whatever would be relaxing to you while you pump. Second, having the right size shields make a very big difference. At one point, a LC recommended I get larger shields. As soon as I used the larger shield (which were way too big), my pumping output went down. I wasn't sure how to measure to figure out the right size, so I just got a few sizes and experimented until I found the right fit. Third, I have the Medela PIS Advanced and while it's ok, I find I don't get great output with it. If you're going to be pumping a lot, I'd recommend renting a hospital grade pump and seeing how that works. (I have a Medela Lactina, but know many people who have used the Ameda hospital grade pumps too.) For me, with the hospital grade pump, the amount is almost double in about 60% of the time. And it's more comfortable.

HTH! Hang in there!

PS I totally agree with Happily Blessed. If all else fails its okay to supplement with formula if necessary. Don't beat yourself up about it. Having your baby eat is the priority! :-)

[averlee]

Mama, I'm sorry for your struggles and troubles. Sometimes I have heard of keeping the baby in a sling, face against your bare breast, like all day or for a lot of hours...so they can nurse a nip here & there, and something about the hormones?
Anyway, here is one thing: You can be grateful you live in a place, and you have the circumstances, that you can run out and get some good safe formula, you have good clean water, your baby will thrive and you will be the very best mother you can!
As big a breastfeeding supporter I am, the truth is, it does not make you a better mother or a better person.
Nurse as much as you possibly can, mama. Hugs to you, the best to all your family.

[TXmommy2be]

I just wanted to offer a big HUG! I've been there and know very well how you are feeling. ((((HUGS!!!)))) Be sure to take care of YOU and try not to stress so much.

[zensven42]

First of all big hugs, this sounds very hard on you all.

But now I am wondering why are you pumping? Pumps are not as efficient, do not empty the breasts all the way, and most importantly, do not stimulate the milk supply as well as the child actually nursing on the breast. The child nursing directly on the breast will increase the supply much more so my advice is for you to nurse as much as possible without using the pump. Just nurse, nurse, nurse. Do not pump or bottlefeed unless you absolutely have to.

I had 1st hand experience with this with my second child, when I had to pump to go back to work. It was so much harder keeping my supply up. I got to the point where I woke up 2x a night to pump as well as nursing my little one.

If you have to pump for some reason, I would try to limit how much you have to do so, by arranging work hours so you can run home or to the daycare(or wherever) and nurse instead of pumping.

And of course there are other methods which can sometimes help supply such as eating oatmeal every morning. I'm sure others can fill you in on this.

As far as feeling sad about all this, try not to be too hard on yourself. You sound as if you are trying very hard to do right. You are stressed, and understandably so. You need to take a moment to stop worrying about your relatives and focus on you and the babe. It is hard for the milk to letdown and flow when you are stressed.

Even your children need to understand that babies need lots of care, and that THEY needed more attention when they were babies, and that THEY also had issues that needed problem solving. Maybe you could get the children involved in the problem solving so they can truly understand that you have needs too. You could suggest that they make some oatmeal cookies, to help with milk supply, or that they bring you water everytime you nurse, or think of ways to help you relax. Explain that this helps with the milk. If you are not calm, then it just makes the situation worse.

Give yourself a big hug, take some deep breaths, and just take it one day at a time. Most of all, nurse, nurse, nurse.

[mynameisMom]

Thank you so much. I am always so touched by this board and all the mamas like you taking their own time to reach out to a stranger who needs some hugs and advice.

I especially appreciate the understanding about missed events due to the baby's mood or schedule. I don't think there is anyone in my life who understands that right now, I feel like they are looking at me like I am incompetent because I can't do something simple like get myself up to a family barbeque. My mom in particular completely does not understand, she keeps saying 'don't let the baby control your life' and does NOT understand how hard it can be to be in a closed up car with a crying little one. I guess my brother and I were easy babies, lucky her.

I'm only pumping so often because he's nursing so little, he will actually start crying sometimes when I even start to put him to the breast. I didn't want to lose my milk supply so I started pumping, and he does take an expressed bottle pretty readily. Now I'm worried I've messed things all up. He does nurse well at night, when he's sleepy.

DH is staying home today to help me, bless his heart. Today's plan, a lot of skin to skin, a lot of oatmeal, and try to find a handsfree band and smaller shields and get on top of my life and this issue. I'm still pretty weepy but it's a new day.

[alegna]

You need to get rid of the bottles. That's a huge part of the problem. If you MUST supplement, do so in another manner- cup feeding, syringe feeding, sns etc ( www.kellymom.com has lots of options listed)

good luck!

-Angela

[Youngfrankenstein]

I think a repeat "babymoon" is in order. It sounds like that's what you're doing today! With dh home, get in bed, or on the couch with the lo and just pretend he was born that day. Nurse him as much as he will allow. It would be great if you could keep it up. I know with older kids and an entire household of responsiblity it will not be easy but I believe it will be worth it. I don't think it will take forever!

Get in a warm bath with baby, mine would always get relax and nurse in the tub.

[~LadyBug~]

Originally Posted by alegna

You need to get rid of the bottles. That's a huge part of the problem. If you MUST supplement, do so in another manner- cup feeding, syringe feeding, sns etc ( www.kellymom.com has lots of options listed)

good luck!

-Angela

This exactly! Kellymom.com is a GREAT place and helped me out a lot! Wishing you luck!

[Llyra]

I have to agree with Angela. At the first sign of breast refusal, I would lose the bottles entirely. Lose the pacifier, too, if you're using one.

Baby may be developing a nipple preference. The action baby uses to suck from a bottle is very different anatomically from the suckling baby does at the breast, and there are lots of babies who have difficulty going back and forth, find the bottle easier, and start to refuse the breast and hold out for the bottle. As baby suckles less and less at the breast, less milk is made, so you feel like you need to give more bottles. Baby is not so hungry when it's time to nurse, because of taking so much from a bottle, so baby becomes less interested in nursing, which reduces supply. Plus, the time baby does spend at the breast is less effective because baby is not suckling properly. So you lose even more of your supply. The only solution to it is to stop giving bottles. Just stop entirely, and spend a few days doing nothing much other than coaxing baby back to the breast.

Even the finest pump cannot maintain supply as optimally as a baby nursing directly can. And full-time pumping requires an enormous commitment of time and energy.

If baby is refusing the breast entirely, you'll want to watch out for dehydration or weight loss, of course, while you're working with baby on the breastfeeding. If either occurs, you find ways to get milk into baby without offering sucking-- from an eye dropper or medicine dropper, for instance, just enough to keep baby's growth and hydration at acceptable levels. The urge to suckle is so strong that babies will almost always return to efficient, effective breastfeeding fairly quickly.

Good luck. It can be hard, but it's totally worth it!

[zensven42]

Just wanted to comment on what your mom said about not "letting the baby control your life." I think that is such a horrible insensitive thing to say, but seems to be the norm in this country nowadays. Seems people are being pushed to think that adults always come first and children should be cared for at the parents convenience. When it comes down to it, you ARE in control of your life. If you wanted to, you could just not care for your children. You could have let your baby scream all the way to the relatives house. But, you CHOSE to attend to your babies needs and go home instead. You CHOOSE to be the kind of mother who will take the time to care for her children when they need it on their schedule.
This doesn't mean that you will necessarily drop everything, every moment for your children. There can be a joyful balance where all needs are met, with some compromise from all sides. As far as small babies go however, there is little room for them to compromise. The next time your mom says something like that, you can be sure to remind her that you are your own person, in control of your own life, who chooses to have a baby who is well taken care of with it's needs met. You can also let her know that it is more stressful for you when she says things like that, and maybe she could just pitch in to help, instead of trying to control you herself by telling you to neglect your child in any fashion, just for your own convenience.

I wish you the best of luck. Just remember you are a strong, caring mom and we all love you!

[wombatclay]

Big hugs...

Kellymom is an amazing resource, and if you have a local LLL group please try to make one of their meetings or call the local LLL leader... it's free, they have a lot of experience, and maybe having a chance to meet other breastfeeding and BTDT mamas will help too! Also, snuggle your little one as much as possible... try lots of skin to skin contact (dd2 had some hard times nursing at first but the nekkid nursing sessions always went better). The idea of a nursing vacation is brilliant... set aside 1-2 days where you focus as much of your time and energy on your babe as possible (maybe your mom or partner could watch the older kiddos, giving them a break from the baby too?). Stay in bed, stay as nekkid as possible, take a warm bath with the babe, try a foot massage for you and a body massage for the babe... anything to bond and snuggle and breastfeed in a relaxing manner.

Have your cycles returned? Mine always come back really quickly (even tandem nursing only kept them away a few months!) and hormonal changes from menstruation can certainly affect milk supply. I found that fenugreek and oatmeal every single day combined with staying hydrated helped, but just "knowing why" my supply was dropping helped with the stress too... and that helped with nursing/pumping. If you're worried though, perhaps ask for a referal to an LC or breastfeeding knowledgable care provider just to make sure you're in tip top shape? A quick check for thyroid levels or anemia or anything that might be pulling you down and affecting your supply.

Though I agree with pp that the stress combined with possible nipple confusion/bottle preference is probably the biggest part of the situation.

Hang in there, stay strong, and keep reaching out! You're giving your little one an amazing gift and the two of you are going to get through this rough patch.

[penstamon]

I didn't read all the previous posts so I apologize if I am repeating anyone.

Staying hydrated is key! Also making sure you are eating enough and getting as much sleep/rest as you can. Its too easy to forget to take care of yourself and of course this will affect your supply, as do stress hormones.

I recently tried Nursing Woman's Tea- Yogi brand- and one cup made me leak milk all day long. I kept letting down and gushing milk even when ds had just nursed and was asleep. Also, Traditional Medicinals makes a similar tea-Mother's Milk I think? Both have tummy soothing herbs too in case. Oatmeal cookies had a similar effect but not as drastic as the tea.

I can relate to people not understanding that a new baby has to affect your life and your plans. Most of my friends don't have kids and couldn't understand why we couldn't pop over for a potluck at 3d pp. Even at a month old we have to structure all outings around ds's comfort and nursing. You are just being good parents and try to let it roll off your back if people don't understand. Your kids will be there someday too!

Hang in there mama and don't beat yourself up over some formula! You are doing what's best at the moment.

[asoulunbound]

:::
I am so glad to have found mdc. There's so much helpful support and information tucked into the forums here. Just wanted to send some positive thoughts your way. relaxing is not always easy. I have only one dc so i can't really offer much advice on that.
You're a great mom for seeking advice and not giving up.

[AirMiami]

Definitely loose the bottles. DD started showing an aversion to the breast at 6 weeks, even though she rarely had bottles anyway, so I cut out all bottles and just focused on our breastfeeding relationship. I think I spent about a week without a shirt on, taking a nursing vacation in our bed. Every time she cried, I nursed her no matter what. I tried to reintroduce bottles at 3 months, but now she can't figure out how to latch onto them. She has reverse nipple confusion LOL!

[kayleesmom]

Just wanted to send you a huge hug!