UC Support Thread II - Page 7

[majazama]

That's so great! ~~*~~ I wish you and your baby an awesome baby moon.

[alexisyael]

Hi everyone!

We're ttc our first (and possibly only) right now and I am leaning towards UC (started throwing hints to my dh, but while he is down with homebirth, I'm not sure he'll be cool with freebirth). Anyway I had a question for ya'll:

I notice most of the stories of UC i read are of 2nd time (or more) moms. Even Samuel Rune's momma did it assisted first time around (and yes, the first thing I thought when I read her first birth story was: "why did she call the midwives?")

So, are there any mamas here who have free birthed their first child? Any mamas who really thought they should have free birthed their first? Or do you need guidance the first time around (I cringe just saying that... I really honestly believe I am the expert of my own body/birth. But maybe it is possible that it would be helpful for me to have someone else around who could reassure me that I am doing it right?)

BTW, I live in Ontario, which is a very medicalized midwifery system. My friend from BC who's pregnant and now lives here was shocked by it... she and I are both _Spiritual Midwifery_ fans. But the midwife she finally found that she loves happens to be the sister of one of my very good friends from CA, who has told her sis she would love to be my midwife. So, that could be a good thing, possibly.

Sorry this was so long, and thanks so much, in advance!

[citizenfong]

alexisyael,

I doubt you'll find anyone here who will tell you not to go for a UC on your first birth. I think that the main reason that most people you read about already have a child or more before they decide on a UC is because most of us had to get burned by the system before we started looking for a better way. Correct me if I'm wrong, other mamas!

I think there is no reason for you not to UC with your first as long as you are healthy and educated...which is what I would suggest to someone planning a UC for their 5th! You might, however, have to withstand a bit more negativity from the mainstream. It's very ingrained in our society that a first-time mom knows NOTHING. It's much more acceptable to do "wacky" things if you've already had one, speaking generally, of course. :LOL

[majazama]

Hi there alexisyael--- I'm like a broken record around here.... I wish I had done an UC with my first child. I was labouring fine "on my own" with my parter nearby. I was in a kid pool, and enjoying the benifits of that. The contractions were intense, but NOTHING that I couldn't handle. By the time the midwife got there and checked me, I was 8 cm, and quite close. She thought that I should get out of the pool and lay down of the friggen couch! That's what really bothered me. I gave birth lying back, when I really wanted to stand or squat. When I "asked" her if I could get up to birth, she said the baby would come too fast. When you are in that position, you don't feel like argueing and you regret it later. The baby was born, I got some tears, and she put an oxygen mask on my newborn baby's face! She was fine! And that was one of the things that I TOLD her that I had a problem with in the prenatal appointments.

Unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE, without ANY DOUBT that the person you want at YOUR babies birth will not interfere unneccessarily, go for it. I do admit that the woman presence was a bit reassuring. This time around I'm going to have my mom here with me, who better? When I was in labour last time, I was crying momomomomom:LOL I wanted my mommy!

[cottonwood]

"Or do you need guidance the first time around (I cringe just saying that... I really honestly believe I am the expert of my own body/birth. But maybe it is possible that it would be helpful for me to have someone else around who could reassure me that I am doing it right?)"

I have never needed a midwife to help me give birth. The two times that I had midwives attend me ("just to be safe"), everything they did or suggested was *wrong* for me, and everything I instinctively felt I should be doing was right. I absolutely believe that women do not need to be told how to give birth, and that allowing someone to do so is only to invite trouble.

However, I've noticed that with first-time moms who are planning UCs, there is a tendency for them to be surprised and overwhelmed by what their bodies are doing in labor, so that they start second-guessing their instincts, and end up unnecessarily transferring to a hospital. That is when a midwife *can* come in handy -- she can tell you, "no, everything is fine, this is the way birth is supposed to be." That of course has to be balanced against the risk that she will unnecessarily transfer you herself, and more likely, that her actions (and presence itself) will sabotage the natural process in some way.

[indigolilybear]

Alexisyael--

I would second what BV said. I think if you do the preparation psychologically (you'd be amazed at how much gunk gets in there! :LOL) that why not give it a try?

However, I do also think that most moms including myself were not prepared for how intense labor can be (not necessarily painful, but intense...) and having someone there say "yes, it's fine..." can be helpful. I do know a couple moms who ended up delivering at the hospital for this reason, after planning a freebirth. It's really hard to say. I would never *discourage* anyone who felt truly drawn to freebirth not to do it. I think one thing I'd say is that if you become pregnant, to seriously do some inner work w/yourself, partner, and babe. You may get a better sense as to whether this is right for you. Every birth, baby, relationship is different KWIM?


Either way, though, I think preparing for a freebirth can do nothing but help. Day by day, even before conception, taking on that responsibility and mentality can only empower you. ANd then should you decide to do it assisted, you still have a better sense for that power, KWIM? My own problem w/my assisted homebirth is I abdicated all responsibility and trust in myself when the MW's entered the scene.....totally my own fault. ANd I was angry and blamed them for a long time.....IMO, entering a birth/pregnancy with a deep sense of ownership and empowerment can only help. And then you know you are ALWAYS responsible for your birth/baby....even if others are there. You could ask them to leave mid-birth, etc. --whatever you needed.

I'd also recommend if you haven't already checked it out, Jeannine Parvati Baker's site www.freestone.org It has lots of stuff on these types of issues. She's ill at the moment so I don't know about getting articles, etc from her but she explores these types of issues a lot.

Blessings mama.

[alexisyael]

Thanks everone for responding! Your responses really give me a lot to ponder and ruminate on

indigolilybear -- I adore JPB! It was actually reading her book (and seeing some UC birthstories here) that moved me to consider free birth. I plan to keep reading as much as possible and doing that inner work, too, no matter what I choose.

In terms of birth's intensity; yeah, I would have to agree with everyone -- I am not entirely sure how I will react until I am there. I know that even being book smart (and very philosophic about natural birth), there's nothing like the real thing. So, yeah, BlueViolet, I think that's exactly what I was thinking of, in terms of having a mw around. And doing the preparation is really important to me -- I started it probably ten years ago! There's always more to do, though

Probably a ton more, as I'm a c-section baby, and my sister was, and her daughter is, and my mom was a forceps baby... that kind of family mojo can turn on you, psychologically! But I am me, not them, and I'm not going to let myself get stuck in stirups!

I'm definitely gonna stick around here and learn some more from all you wise mamas, if you don't mind

[cottonwood]

We are happy to have you here, Alexis.

I'm a c-section baby myself -- and my grandmother's birth experience was apparently so horrible that she refused to have any more children. But they didn't ever talk about it (and I didn't think to ask before I had children) so I never really felt connected to that part of my ancestral history. After I gave birth I became more interested in birth issues and found out more details of their stories, and the more I learned the more it became obvious to me that the reason they experienced difficulties was not because they or their bodies were inherently flawed!

[alexisyael]

My mom was an incredibly strong dancer who walked to the hospital (more than a mile) in early labor with me. Then she climbed up and down stairs for awhile more. And they let her push "longer than normal" (considering my heart rates, and her being a first mom -- they told her anyone else would have been Ced within an hour), since they all thought she could do it. All without pain killers right up til the rushed her into the OR (then she got a general).

Here's the kicker: they made her be in stirups! Argh! I strongly believe that if she'd been allowed to labor in the position of her choice, I'd have been born vaginally.

My mom's birth I know a lot less about: forceps, some sort of ether (?) gas or something. She has a scar on her forhead where the forceps crushed her skull (UGH!)

My (half) sis's birth was strange. I'm not sure what the heck went on with that, since I didn't get there until right before she was wheeled into the OR (had to fly up from Southern CA to Northern CA). Baby never descended, she was in "excrutiating pain" and she never dilated past 3-4. A lot of it was pschological fear (not just of birth but of being a mother) and also a lot of anger (at our mom, at her then bf, now h). She was not in good shape, either -- had eaten a ton of sugar and crap food at the end and not done much walking or anything. Again, it was odd, cause she also danced up until the 6th month of her pregnancy (we're both belly dancers). I think there was a lot of fighting/ drama that went on that I didn't know about (and I knew about some of it. Her bf may have cheated, for example. )

Sorry to hijack the thread, it's just I don't normally get a chance to talk about all this history @ people who are so birth-positive! (Plus, I just like to write, since I'm a writer, that's what I do )

[cottonwood]

Naw -- talking about crappy birth experiences is all part of it. I imagine many of us have similar histories in our families, and that it has affected the choices we've made.

I'm surprised they allowed your mom to walk around at all once she got to the hospital! My mom was confined to bed from the moment she got there until 19 hours later, when they were concerned about her lack of progress, then they did an x-ray and determined me to be breech. Anyway, she said the whole labor was horrific because she had these shooting pains down her legs and wanted to move around desperately but wasn't allowed to. And in those days, you followed doctors orders no matter what...

Whenever someone uses the word "never" to describe events in their labor, I always wonder about what time limitations they had on them, and what interventions they had. Your sister's story is sooo common. Either the mother is induced, so that the body is not ready to go into labor, or her water is broken so she is put on a clock, or it's just a failure to be patient. I like to tell people who "never" dilated past 3-4 that I didn't dilate at all until I was 50 hours into labor, and it would have probably been longer had it not been for stupidly augmenting the labor with castor oil. Measuring dilation should never be done, unless the baby is in distress and there is some question as to whether it would be faster to do vaginal or cesarean. Otherwise it's just an excuse to get women to accept interventions, and get them on that friggin' assembly line and outta there.

[alexisyael]

Oh, I agree with you!

In my sis' case, her water broke and she went immediately to the hospital (she was two hours away, and also I think she felt safer at that point at the hospital -- family strife going on can do that to a person.) They probably didn't even call, just went it.

I was actually surprised (after talking to her doc after) that they "let" her labor as long as they did (@15 hours in the hospital) b/c he had already determined (during her last prenatal) that she would be c-sectioned. Of course, he never told her that. So, no matter what her progress was, I think he had a time in mind for the operation, and that was that.

She also really wanted an epidural, but can't have one, due to her back being very messed up (a car accident that wasn't her fault. She got a settlement, but never healed properly. That was a few years before she was pregnant.) I think that also contributed to a lot of her pain, in fact. Like I said, I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure, but she has to be really careful about it, even now, and is in pain a lot Still, I think that the psychological factors were really not working in her favor, given the crappy situation she was in with her family and bf. We relate very differently to our family.)

BTW, she was seeing midwives in the beginning, but for some reason switched to a doc/ hospital 2 hours away. I can't remember exactly why (it wasn't $ b/c she didn't pay for the birth at all. It was state paid. But she went out of county, which I don't think they normally do. Anyway, I think the midwives determined her to be too "high risk" or something (?). I try to avoid the drama in my family, so I never pay as much attention as I should.

In my mom's case, they actually "made" her walk up and down stairs, as there was a lot of worry about an x-ray she'd had that showed me being too large, but they let her have a "trial of labor" anyway, since she was so athletic and they thought she might be able to do it. For a doc in the 70s, I guess that was pretty progressive.

Ya know, I never did ask her how long her stages were, except I know she pushed @ 2 hours...

I do know that her main memory is being wheeled into surgery and cursing out my dad (who had been taken to the waiting room). She has a sailor's mouth (like me) and apparently it was really creative swearing at that point, which she is proud of.

[LavenderMae]

Originally posted by citizenfong
alexisyael,

I doubt you'll find anyone here who will tell you not to go for a UC on your first birth. I think that the main reason that most people you read about already have a child or more before they decide on a UC is because most of us had to get burned by the system before we started looking for a better way. Correct me if I'm wrong, other mamas!

My daughter was an unplanned UC and for some stupid reason I had to have my son in a freaking hospital (although I did want a home birth my insurance wouldn't pay for one) to realize I had it right the first time and what a precious gift my daughters birth was! I can say that having my son with an OB and in the hospital was a thousand times more painful and scary that my unplanned UC. Never again. I intend on having a planned UC the next time around. I just need to fully convince my husband it's the best way. He wants me to have a mid-wife attend but I really think that would just complicate things.

[amyamanda]

Somehow I missed checking this thread for a few weeks, but I'm back. I will be 31 weeks tomorrow and I'm feeling healthy and happy about our UC plans.

There were some questions a few pages back that I wanted to throw my 2c in about:

What are you doing to keep in shape/keep yourself strong and ready for birth?

Well, um, does parenting 3 kids under school age 24 hours a day count? Just trying to stay active. I carry my DD a lot and am as active as my body seems to want me to be. I am 30 weeks and conscious of positions I am putting my body in, so as to encourage “Optimal Foetal Positioning” (if you haven’t read the book, it is a must-read...available through the Midwifery Today website). I can’t believe how many people, health care professionals included, think that a baby in utero is in a satisfactory position for birth simply by being head-down. Mine is not head-down yet, but there is plenty of time, and I’m glad I can be conscious of giving the baby every opportunity for an optimal position rather than just a head-down position.

Another thing I’m doing is trying to listen to my “birthy” music (Enya) often so it’s what runs around in my head, and listening to one of the Hypnobabies tapes that I happen to like a lot (Painless Childbirth). I keep a Walkman by my bed with those little “ear buds” and when I wake up at night and can’t sleep I pop one in my top ear and the music or hypnosis usually relaxes me to sleep, so that I sleep better and wake better rested.

In my second and third pregnancies I did prenatal fitness with a wonderful woman who had a studio near me. But we moved and I confess I am not much for self-motivated exercise, especially not with kids hanging off me with every attempt.

I’m also getting chiropractic care as needed, as well as a few massages.

For those of you doing your own prenatal care, do you check your urine? why or why not? Do you check the baby's heartrate, will you during labor?

Nope, although I might if I had a couple of strips handy. I don’t think they are incredibly helpful and I don’t think that the color line on a test strip alone will tell me what is going on as well as my intuition will. The only reason I would (and probably will) at this point is that I had pre-eclampsia with baby #1 (but not #2 or #3) and DH is having a hard time getting my blood pressure reading. I would like some quick reassurance that I’m not headed down that path, or if I seem to be, I can be more aware of preventive measures.

We borrowed a fetoscope but haven’t used it at all and ended up giving it back to the friend who lent it. To me, a moving/kicking baby is alive, and that is enough for me. It takes so ridiculously long to find the heartbeat (my friend tried and it was funny – the baby kept moving and I had to refrain from saying “you know, I am sure the baby has a heartbeat, can we leave it at that?” But she really wanted to try, so I let her.) If the baby seriously doesn’t move for a few days I’d probably borrow it back just to see. I don’t plan on checking during labor unless my gut tells me otherwise. Does anyone know when you can hear the heartbeat with a regular stethoscope?

What are you reading, watching for preparation?

Nothing really, although I did recently review “Optimal Foetal Positioning.” Some stuff online, and I have a couple of midwifey books I’ve skimmed. I read so much during my previous pregnancies, I’m kind of burnt out on it, and I haven’t felt the need to read much. I did just get a copy of “Expecting Trouble: the Myth of Prenatal Care in America” and I’m going to take a look at it soon.

What do you tell people when they ask about where/who you are birthing with?

Well, usually they want to know if I’m birthing at home, to which I say yes. If they ask who is my midwife, I tell them “X” who was my midwife for my DD and whom I have a great relationship with (she actually said “Use me! I don’t mind if you tell people I’m your midwife!”) If they know that "X" is 2 hours away and that I have had fast labors, I pre-empt their next question by saying that we are not expecting that anyone will make it in time, but are prepared to handle things ourselves. Beyond that, if someone presses, I point out that I've done this three times before, DH has EMT training, the hospital is only 20 minutes away, and we are confident of our ability to know when to transfer if needed. If they ask me straight out if we are planning to have a doctor or midwife (people are so nosey!), then depending on the person, I might surprise myself and outright say "neither."

Totally depends on who is asking, though. Ironically enough, I feel the need to guard our plans more from family and close friends than well-meaning strangers.

If you do tear, how do you handle this? Do you heal on your own, use that sticky glue stuff (derma bond I think) or do you see a professional for assistance?

I have not torn in previous births. If I do this time, how I handle it will depend on how bad it is. Maybe just let it heal, or we have some non-medical-grade superglue we could use, or I could call my midwife friend for help with that if I needed it.

also-can you determine your placenta's position without an u/s?

I know my midwife can tell by listening with the fetoscope (apparently the placenta sounds different). I have always been able to guess by where I feel less movement overall. Like the placenta is a pillow in between the baby’s kicks and me. I am pretty sure it’s left anterior this time (was last time as well). I imagine that if the placenta is too near the cervix, it will make itself known by bleeding.

Hope everyone else is doing well. I can't believe how fast this is coming up for me...

[yoga]

blueviolet, thanks for the tip on how to see the pics.

[yoga]

Laura Shanley had all her babies UC, even her first. Maybe she'll pop in here and give her opinion, Alexis. You could go to her websites, as well. And, I'd recommend reading her book. I found it very uplifting.

Personally, I never had a UC before this pregnancy (my fourth) b/c I had no idea what to do after the birth. Birth itself I knew I could handle alone, but what to do after the baby comes out and there's all that blood, etc.? (I had grown up being taught how horrible birth was, etc.)

So, that's why I never UCed. I wish there was more information out there to easily find. I read a lot during my first pregnancy, but after a while, it all seemed to be the same recycled, fear-mongering information. You really have to know what to look for and where to look to find more choices.

[myjo]

How many of you decided on a UC during your birth (ie. had hired a midwife, but decided against calling her)?

I'm pg with my 3rd baby. I know I could do this by myself, but I'm seeing a midwife for my dh's sake. He's rather nervous. I'm almost hoping that this birth will go quickly and I can sort of fudge and not call the midwife until it's too late. (She has an hr. drive to get here).

The only thing I worry a bit about is that things might get a little hairy after the birth dealing with the placenta, mess, afterpains, etc. Also, I tore both times with my births. I'm going to try mightily this time not to again, but who knows. What have been your experiances with all the after birth stuff? Because that's when I really appreciate my midwife, she cleans up, stitches me up, takes care of the placenta, makes healing teas, gives me homeopathic remedies for after pains, etc. I'm not sure I want to give that up. Maybe I'll call her after the birth and tell her it happened too fast, but that we want her there to check me and the baby.

Anyway, I'm just testing the waters here. I've been tossing this around in the back of my mind ever since I found out I was preggo, but something keeps stopping me from making an issue out of it with dh. Maybe I'll gain more confidence as I read more.

[alexisyael]

That's a good point, I'd forgotten that even her first was UC. I do love her site. Haven't read her book, but I will for sure be ordering it!

I had one friend say to me, "who's gonna clean up if you give birth at home?" Well, duh, my husband! Or my mom or somebody (a midwife/ doula if I have one. Or a friend).

But actually, I don't see what all there will be to clean up -- it isn't like I am gonna suddenly have an Alien pop out of my stomach or something! Sure there's blood. But I've had sex while on my period -- and that can get pretty messy, too I guess I'm not afraid of a mess. (Especially since towels or sheets can easily get washed!) Plus, I'm feeling drawn to waterbirth.

Especially since the worst thing to clean up (imo) is vomit, and while I may vomit during birth, I expect someone else will clean it up for me!

[cottonwood]

"The only thing I worry a bit about is that things might get a little hairy after the birth dealing with the placenta, mess, afterpains, etc. Also, I tore both times with my births. I'm going to try mightily this time not to again, but who knows. What have been your experiances with all the after birth stuff? Because that's when I really appreciate my midwife, she cleans up, stitches me up, takes care of the placenta, makes healing teas, gives me homeopathic remedies for after pains, etc. I'm not sure I want to give that up. Maybe I'll call her after the birth and tell her it happened too fast, but that we want her there to check me and the baby."

I know that all births are different, but personally I've never felt the time immediately after the birth was that big a deal. The placenta went right into a bowl I was squatting over. We had several towels with fluid and blood on them, but we just threw those in the washer! It's not that much different than dealing with semen or menstrual blood -- it's just a part of life, and you just do it. Like you wash the dishes, or wipe a baby's poopy butt, or dig in the dirt while gardening. Mess happens, that's life.

The afterpains, I don't know what the midwife could have done for those besides suggest painkillers. I didn't want to take any drugs, so I just suffered through them, and I didn't need a midwife to help me do that.

As for stitching, I figure that if I tear badly (which I am *not* expecting from a spontaneous, instinctive birth) I'll just have a midwife come stitch me up.

It sounds like what you really are desiring is someone to take care of you. Treat you special. You might consider who else could fill that role (mother, friend, postpartum doula), or maybe the midwife really is the best person. If you've paid her for the birth, you're certainly entitled to call her for postpartum care. Or maybe you can work out a deal with her, so that she knows you are planning a UC and would just like that after-care. Lots of different ways you could approach this.

[Spark]

Myjo -- Afterpains -- I'm taking an herbal blend called "Femigen." It really helps. I need to go read through the ingredients again to tell you what herbs are in there. But, it's not like MW would be able to prevent them anyway. I was wishing that HypnoBirthing would have included a painfree "afterpains" CD in their program. My afterpains hurt worse than my contractions. But, the Femigen really helped. They were intense the first 24 hours, but subsided really nicely after that.

Just wanted to pop in and say "HI" from your UC mascot. Funny, I think I did end up with a UC mascot birth. Next time, if there is a next time in my reproductive life I won't label myself a mascot. I'll just be full fledged.

Oh, here is my long birth story, if interested. There are some pregnancy pictures there, too.
http://homepage.mac.com/jakces/iblog...841/index.html

[myjo]

Spark, what a beautiful story! Sounds quite a lot like my last birth, accept I took an entourage with me on my walk. Alone would have been nice! My labors tend to stall too when people start arriving at my house.