Is it hard to admit you aren't a Christian? - Page 4

[phatchristy]

Originally Posted by suebee79

Heh, heh, heh. I"ve frequently thought I should hang a sign on my front door that reads:
"We do not want your newspaper, electric company, steaks or religion. If you are not peddling any of the above, then please, feel free to knock."

You've had people come to your door trying to sell steaks?

[Cavy]

No it's not hard for me to say I'm a Humanist.
Helps that I live in an overwhelmingly secular country (Britain).

The fact that Tony Blair considered himself a Christian was actually a political liability for him; religion is private here and many (maybe most) people are highly suspicious of anybody who claims to consult a supernatural power in making decision in their lives.

However, I would feel very awkward in some parts of the USA, mentioning my lack of faith. I don't want to debate or offend, and worst of all -- I don't want anybody to see it as their mission to convert me!

I have several relatives who discovered religion and then became very obnoxious in their evangelising. I've had other friends/family who were privately very religious, that is cool; they are tolerant of my mindset and so can I be about their views.

[Cavy]

Marimara,
I just saw your query about politely telling people that you don't go to church.
I say "I don't do religion". Which really flummoxes some religious people and makes others laugh. I guess my attitude is unimaginable if religion is a big part of your identity.

But to me it's like drinking coffee; I don't drink coffee, either.
I don't care if YOU drink coffee, but having tasted it, I don't like it. Me not drinking coffee is not a judgement on your choices. You can love coffee all you like. Hopefully my tone of voice conveys that.

Would that go down badly or just taken as incomprehensible where you live?

[mary3mama]

Originally Posted by Cavy

[B]
But to me it's like drinking coffee; I don't drink coffee, either.
I don't care if YOU drink coffee, but having tasted it, I don't like it.

I love this analogy. (And it doesn't at all hurt that I don't drink coffee anymore )

[marimara]

Originally Posted by Cavy

Marimara,
I just saw your query about politely telling people that you don't go to church.
I say "I don't do religion". Which really flummoxes some religious people and makes others laugh. I guess my attitude is unimaginable if religion is a big part of your identity.

But to me it's like drinking coffee; I don't drink coffee, either.
I don't care if YOU drink coffee, but having tasted it, I don't like it. Me not drinking coffee is not a judgement on your choices. You can love coffee all you like. Hopefully my tone of voice conveys that.

Would that go down badly or just taken as incomprehensible where you live?

There's a very good chance it would go down badly. I imagine most people would really just look at me like I was crazy then proceed to inch me out the door of their organization (playgroup, classes, etc.). They like to be friendly to your face and then secretly ostracize and segregate you in subtle ways. Mostly I don't feel comfortable with any group around here knowing that I'm not a Christian, it's very sick down here, very sick....Deep South, small town, conservative Christians, good old boy network...I am usually ok within interpersonal relationships, they can know what and who I am, but when it comes to a group that I'm trying to get involved in, it can get hairy. As a SAHM, I am trying to get involved in social activities and "church" is such a huge part of social identity down here.

[mary3mama]

Originally Posted by marimara

"church" is such a huge part of social identity down here.

Yes, it is. We lived in Tennessee for about 6 years and saw this first hand. Our first child was born there, but we moved back to Indiana before he turned 2...so our casting out for social opportunities was limited. I imagine it is really, really hard once a child is a bit older to do so.

I wish I had some advice for you. Given the constraints you've described, it's hard to see any other alternatives than either lying and faking it or being truthful and being ostracized. Neither are very good, of course.

[pixiekisses]

Uh, no, not at all. I actually hardly understand the question.
I'm a proud atheist, and I'll announce it to anyone and everyone.
Bring on the religious discussions.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by Cavy

But to me it's like drinking coffee; I don't drink coffee, either.
I don't care if YOU drink coffee, but having tasted it, I don't like it. Me not drinking coffee is not a judgement on your choices. You can love coffee all you like. Hopefully my tone of voice conveys that.

Hold on, some things are sacred. Coffee is one of them. You clearly have not tasted the right type of coffee, or not had REAL coffee, or learned how to make good coffee.

Perhaps you had a bad childhood association with coffee (it burned you as a child, or it was forced on you). Or perhaps it was kept from you and you never got a real taste for it, without knowing how incredibly central coffee is to the core human experience.

You don't have to experience coffee in a coffee shop or with other people, though that is an attractive part of the experience, of course. I know some people who only drank coffee for the social experience, and then they learned how much it touched them internally.

But if that is not attractive to you, you can keep your coffee experience independent of others. You can brew at home, one cup at a time.

Just try a taste, perhaps with a lot of syrup or flavorings. Something not very strong, with whipped cream or chocolate. I am sure you will like it. You don't have to drink shots of espresso!

[pixiekisses]

Originally Posted by siobhang

Hold on, some things are sacred. Coffee is one of them. You clearly have not tasted the right type of coffee, or not had REAL coffee, or learned how to make good coffee.

Perhaps you had a bad childhood association with coffee (it burned you as a child, or it was forced on you). Or perhaps it was kept from you and you never got a real taste for it, without knowing how incredibly central coffee is to the core human experience.

You don't have to experience coffee in a coffee shop or with other people, though that is an attractive part of the experience, of course. I know some people who only drank coffee for the social experience, and then they learned how much it touched them internally.

But if that is not attractive to you, you can keep your coffee experience independent of others. You can brew at home, one cup at a time.

Just try a taste, perhaps with a lot of syrup or flavorings. Something not very strong, with whipped cream or chocolate. I am sure you will like it. You don't have to drink shots of espresso!

Heehee, brilliant post!

[SeekingSerenity]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

I am going to have to steal your idea. I thought I was safe from the door to door people living on a block with 3 churches, 2 rectories, and a priest (very small block, too). But they've already come around three times this month. Last time they tried to guilt my dh into coming to Jesus so he can be with our toddler "forever" when they were out walking and then piled on some literature. My dh thought it was funny, but I don't.

I am going to revise the sign I have in my window... it reads NO SOLICITING and adds, Do Not Ring Doorbell - Baby Sleeping!! Most people ignore it, but the mail-lady apologized profusely for missing it and ringing the bell to deliver a package one day. The back-up mail-guy could care less. The magazine solicitors tend to back off, but the religious types seem to be challenged by the idea of no soliciting - because in their minds, they're not selling anything!

A group came up to DH when he was changing the spark plugs in our truck last weekend, and tried to start a conversation. He held up his hand, and said, "I'm not interested. I'm an atheist. I do not believe in your God... in fact, I do not believe that there IS a God." Then he went back to the truck... he said the guy was shocked, mouth open and everything! Said he'd add our family to their prayer list and scurried away. Only then did DH bust out laughing... he is not an atheist, he's more of an agnostic with distinct pagan tendencies. He won't let me talk to the missionaries.

Originally Posted by phatchristy

You've had people come to your door trying to sell steaks?

I have. I've also had them coming up to me in convenience store parking lots, at parks, even where I used to work. They carry ice chests around in their pickups (or the trunks of cars) with deep-frozen steaks. People buy em, too... not me, thanks.

Originally Posted by marimara

...it's very sick down here, very sick....Deep South, small town, conservative Christians, good old boy network... and "church" is such a huge part of social identity down here.

Small-town Oklahoma is a lot the same way, and even Texas has big-time issues with the "good-ol' boy" mentality.

One thing I've said is that I am in the process of defining my spirituality and I have not yet chosen the church I will be attending. Although this might just increase the number of invitations you get, and you may be expected to attend everyone's congregation in order to "find" your way. It's a little worse where you are, I think. I ended up being a Christian for 8 years while in Oklahoma because what else could I do? That's like the definition of hypocritical, though, and now I rock the boat whenever I go back to visit my parents. The people who used to be so nice to me stay away when I am there. Which is sad... and very un-Christian, indeed.

[FondestBianca]

Originally Posted by siobhang

Hold on, some things are sacred. Coffee is one of them. You clearly have not tasted the right type of coffee, or not had REAL coffee, or learned how to make good coffee.

Perhaps you had a bad childhood association with coffee (it burned you as a child, or it was forced on you). Or perhaps it was kept from you and you never got a real taste for it, without knowing how incredibly central coffee is to the core human experience.

You don't have to experience coffee in a coffee shop or with other people, though that is an attractive part of the experience, of course. I know some people who only drank coffee for the social experience, and then they learned how much it touched them internally.

But if that is not attractive to you, you can keep your coffee experience independent of others. You can brew at home, one cup at a time.

Just try a taste, perhaps with a lot of syrup or flavorings. Something not very strong, with whipped cream or chocolate. I am sure you will like it. You don't have to drink shots of espresso!

the funny part is that someone has actually used the above approach to try to convince me coffee actually does taste good. Every time I tell her the same thing. Coffee is nasty... all of it. Even the heavily flavored junk still tastes like rotten dirt. Putting sugar in rotten dirt just gives you sweetened, rotten dirt. I don't care how fancy, expensive, exotic, it is... still makes me want to scrape the top 3 layers of skin off of all of the tissue in my mouth.

Same goes for religon. No matter how you package it... it's still tastes like rotten dirt to me. Others seem to like it, feel like they need it, can't imagine life without it, love it, and incorporate it into as many parts of their lives as possible. I avoid churches like I do the scoop-it-yourself coffee bean isle at the grocery store. Both make me uncomfortable in the belly!

Now, on the same note, I'm all for someone explaining their favorite flavor of coffee TO me (not AT me) or describing just how it is brewed. I appreciate that people have passions and interests... just don't ask more than once if I want to taste it (or rather than asking, assume that if I WANT to join in, I'll ask myself).... and don't come to my house for the sole purpose of trying to get me to taste it.

And I do typically talk to the various missionaries that come to my front door. The little mormon boy duos are my favorite. They are much more personable and willing to get off topic than the others are IME. Plus it's sort of fun to tease them .... I know, I know, evil. Anyway, if I want to scare any of them away I can always just mention the time I saw Jesus standing on the shoulder of the interstate.

Oddly I have a much more difficult time sharing my views or detailing my expereinces with friends and family members than I do with complete strangers. Perhaps because I have to live with the opinions of people I know while strangers only disapprove once, then they're gone forever.

[purplepaperclip]

Originally Posted by siobhang

Hold on, some things are sacred. Coffee is one of them. You clearly have not tasted the right type of coffee, or not had REAL coffee, or learned how to make good coffee.

Perhaps you had a bad childhood association with coffee (it burned you as a child, or it was forced on you). Or perhaps it was kept from you and you never got a real taste for it, without knowing how incredibly central coffee is to the core human experience.

You don't have to experience coffee in a coffee shop or with other people, though that is an attractive part of the experience, of course. I know some people who only drank coffee for the social experience, and then they learned how much it touched them internally.

But if that is not attractive to you, you can keep your coffee experience independent of others. You can brew at home, one cup at a time.

Just try a taste, perhaps with a lot of syrup or flavorings. Something not very strong, with whipped cream or chocolate. I am sure you will like it. You don't have to drink shots of espresso!

laughup

[purplepaperclip]

Originally Posted by phatchristy

You've had people come to your door trying to sell steaks?

Oh yes. In both Florida and Texas. We were naive in Florida and said "What the hell? We'll give them a try". What a waste of money. We learned our lesson for sure on that one. NEVER buy steaks from a guy in a Ford Ranger with a cooler in the back. Yeah, yeah, I know. Seems like a no-brainer, that one. Yankee fools that we were.

[Cavy]

Marimara,
I suppose what I would do in your situ is to always be quite vague then, about religious beliefs. Deflect, change the subject, etc. Eventually someone will pin you down about your actual beliefs, and you will have to come clean.

But hopefully by then they will know you well enough that they will get a little revelation that people can be decent worthwhile friends and members of society without needing religious guidance. This may be something that they need to learn!

[SeekingSerenity]

Originally Posted by Cavy

But hopefully by then they will know you well enough that they will get a little revelation that people can be decent worthwhile friends and members of society without needing religious guidance. This may be something that they need to learn!

Deep in the heart of small-town Georgia? Not likely that they WILL learn. Not impossible, but not likely either. It would be excellent for Marimara to come back later with a success story though...