? about immunocompromised needed vaxes

[bluedotsmom]

OK, how was that for a vague title?!? :-) I couldn't find my exact question asked, but please feel free to point me to another thread if needed.

I do not vax my children anymore (started with dd1, less with dd2, none with ds,) but wonder about something I've always heard.

I have heard that those with immune issues should be vaccinated. I have an immune system disorder that has not been fully defined yet, it is probably rheumatoid arthritis. Right now I'm in a 'flare' and have a low white blood count. I will be pushed to get the flu vax. I know that I am quite vulnerable to illness right now, but...

My non-scientific understanding of vaxes is that they produce an immune response to the disease. OK, how can someone with a compromised immune system produce a response to a vaccine that would give them immunity to the disease? It would seem to me that an immune-compromised person would be the worst candidate for a vax.

I would like to hear all opinions/facts/theories. I appreciate everyone's time!

[Asiago]

Hmm, this is something I never understood either.

In veterinary medicine it is common knowledge that only healthy animals should be vaccinated. In fact it is often stated on the vaccine manufacturers instructions. In other other words, were a veterinarian to go against the manufactuers instructions and vaccinate an animal with a chronic health condition, he would be not be following manufacturers instructions.

ETA,
I found this on a pediatric a DTaP vax package insert. It visibly warns against administering to individuals with altered immunocompetence.

WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS
5.1 LatexAllergy
5.2 Management ofAcute Allergic Reactions
5.3 Adverse Reactions Following Prior Pertussis Vaccination
5.4 Guillain-Barré Syndrome and Brachial Neuritis
5.5 Infants and Children with a History ofPrevious Seizures
5.6 Limitations ofVaccine Effectiveness
5.7 Altered Immunocompetence

https://www.vaccineshoppe.com/image....pe=product_pdf

[time4another]

I have RA.

I will not be getting the flu vaccine, because of the reasons you just stated.

I am worried about all the live virus flu vaccinations though. I am on a biologic DMARD-I can not take it if I get sick, and I may get sicker because of it (immune suppressant). It is the only med that has worked for me thus far.

Check out this blog http://sneezingpiggies.blogspot.com/

GL with your RA DX...its a hard thing to have with three little ones.

Heather

[ZoeyZoo]

Myself and one of my pets have auto immune issues. We actually deal with over reaacting immune systems. I don't understand this line of thinking either. The vaxes have been linked to causing more auto immune issues so I don't see the point of provoking more issues/more severe issues if you're already dealing with auto immune problems.

[bluedotsmom]

Thank you all for sharing! For some reason this year, I've been having occasional panic about whether or not I should get a flu shot, but I am reassured in not doing it.

It never did make sense to do vaxes if one's immune system isn't working right.

time4another, thank you for the blog! Can't wait to peruse it!

Immune disorders suck...flu season sucks...Thanks again!

[emma1325]

RA is in my family. After my daughter reacted badly to her shots as an infant, I researched and learned that RA and other auto-immune system diseases are thought to be caused by vaccines according to some experts.

Hep B vaccine, I believe, is one directly linked to auto-immune disorders in France...many people are even suing over the issue.

My thoughts on what someone with an auto-immune system disease should concentrate on is building the immune system. Vaccines do not build up the immune system; they assault it. (IMO.)

[ema-adama]

The bits and pieces that I have read seem to indicate that there is no safety concerns for vaxing immune compromised people, ie you are not more likely than a person with a healthy imune system to have what the medical community define as an adverse event. However, that touches on the issue of vaccine safety and the huge gaps in any scientific evidence of their long term safety. And as PP have pointed out, there is concern that vaccines actually assault the immune system, Concerns the medical establishments are not taking at all seriously.

As to the efficacy. Immune compromised individuals do not seem to respond to vaccines in the same way that people with healthy immune systems do. Which leads doctors to recommend the vaccine as it might work and isn't harmful. According to their information.

As with all vaccines, I would recommend reading up on each vaccine to see what studies have been done on immune compromised individuals. The assumption that vaccines in general offer the best protection for immune compromised people is just that, an assumption.

[2boyzmama]

This is exactly the situation we're in with my younger son. He has a primary immune deficiency, chronic t-cell deficit, apparent b-cell dysfunction. He's very susceptible to not only acquiring illness, but also of having severe effects from illness. So while most people consider Chicken Pox to be a nuisance, he truly could get very sick from it, same with flu, measles, etc etc etc. He's the kind of kid that vaccines for "minor" illnesses were designed for, honestly.

BUT, he's also the least likely to mount an appropriate immune response from the vaccines!!! He likely will need numerous doses. AND, he has a genetic syndrome that leaves him more susceptible to acquiring auto-immune diseases, so he's also more likely to have a reaction to a vaccine.

How's THAT for conundrum??? He needs them more than most kids, but they won't work as well, and are likely to cause a reaction.

We don't vax him.

[Asiago]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

And as PP have pointed out, there is concern that vaccines actually assault the immune system, Concerns the medical establishments are not taking at all seriously.

Aha, yet another really good point.

Back to veterinary medicine for a minute. The AVMA, American Veterinary Medical Association, clearly states that Vaccination is a potent medical procedure with both risks and benefits. So why on earth is the same statement not commonly applied in human medicine(!?)

Even the following statement seems so much more advanced than human vaccination medical practices:

Despite significant advances in our knowledge of antigens and antigen presentation, gaps still remain in our understanding of the immune system's acute and chronic reaction to multiple vaccinations. The body of knowledge surrounding the genetic variability within individual breeds or species and the resulting idiopathic responses to vaccination (including vaccine-associated adverse reactions), is increasing but remains too inconclusive to make specific recommendations appropriate for all patients

http://www.avma.org/issues/vaccination/vaccination.asp

[bluedotsmom]

Thank you all for more thoughtful posts!

The Hep B vax/immune disorder link is very interesting. I got the Hep B vax about 20 yrs ago, somewhere around this is when I had my first episode of low WBC and borderline positive RA factor. hhhmmmm...need to do more reading.

And perhaps, we need to use our vet for our PCP!!! :-)

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by bluedotsmom

Thank you all for more thoughtful posts!

The Hep B vax/immune disorder link is very interesting. I got the Hep B vax about 20 yrs ago, somewhere around this is when I had my first episode of low WBC and borderline positive RA factor. hhhmmmm...need to do more reading.

And perhaps, we need to use our vet for our PCP!!! :-)

RA is a tabled vaccine injury (for the MMR at least).