How come we're not rich?? (vent/whine)

[laohaire]

I'm usually ok with this but every now and then I get frustrated.

We make $40k a year, a good solid income, well above the national average I am quite sure (I think national average is in the $20,000's?).

And sometimes it strikes me how we don't spend what "everybody else" does. Here's a partial list. Note: just because something is on the list doesn't mean I want to buy it, it's a list of things that I think typcial households spend on that we don't.

- Cable TV
- Netflix (we have a TV but only borrow movies FREE from the library.. so our TV costs are limited to the electricity it runs on... the TV itself is a 15" that his mother got him as a teenager so we didn't even buy it)
- Cell phones
- Landline phone (we have an incoming VOIP line only, $8/month... for outgoing we use my work phone which is installed in my house)
- Eating out (our big "fling" is if we find enough change under the car seat to buy one large french fries to share, maybe once every other month)
- 2 cars (we have 1, and only pay insurance for 1 driver, and put less than 10k miles a year on it, so we don't pay nearly what most people do in gas)
- Haircuts (DH buzzes his own, and my mom cuts mine every other year, and we trim DD's bangs)
- Clothes (mom and MIL buy all of DD's clothes, literally... DH and I just wear the same old year after year plus mom and MIL's Christmas gifts... I'm serious, the pair of shoes I'm wearing right now I bought in 1999 and my shorts are from HIGH SCHOOL... yeah, I'm not a pretty picture )
- Snacks (except for the aforementioned bimonthly french fry binge, we have none)
- Drinks (all water)
- Cigarettes (ick, but just saying, many people spend on these)
- Vacations (it's been years, and when we did it years ago was just 2 overnights at an inn within 5 hours driving distance and we packed most of our food to eat)
- Entertainment (we went to the movies once this year - because we got 2 free passes - we don't drink, bowl, or anything. We rely strictly on FREE entertainment like visiting the farm and the nearby lake)
- Blow money (we don't buy books, DVDs, CDs, nuthin'. We borrow these kinds of things from the library. Certainly no lattes).

Anyway I'm sure I'm being boring but the point is... these are all I think pretty common items in your typcial budget, we don't have them, and yet barely make ends meet. Paying off our student loan after our 8k car loan will take us 4-5 years assuming we have ideal months every month and income increases exactly with costs.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[mnnice]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I'm usually ok with this but every now and then I get frustrated.

We make $40k a year, a good solid income, well above the national average I am quite sure (I think national average is in the $20,000's?).

I looked up the median household income and for 2007 the figure was right around $50,000.

[crazycandigirl]

The average income is right around 50,000 a year.

I often get those feeling of frustration as well. It does not seem fair that we have to pay such close attention to money, go without so much, and do not seem to get the perks that others get. I guess it is human nature to have feelings of entitlement. Not a bad thing, just a normal human emotion that we all have.

BUT, I do realize that even as I go without the food, entertainment, vacation, material things that we can not afford, that many other people can not afford them even as they spend the money. They rely on credit (though economy is changing in that regard) and spend money that they do not really have. We do not buy something if we do not have the money. Simple as that. I may whine about it, but I still don't buy it.

I just wanted to say that I know where you are coming from.

[annethcz]

Your income is below average. Depending on your family size, an income at that level might make you eligible for assistance with utilties. A family of 4 with an income of $40,793 or less qualifies for reduced price school lunches. An income of $20,000/year that you thought was average would actually be below the poverty line for a family of 4 (the poverty line for a family of 3 is $18k).

That said, while the incomes of MDC posters do vary, I think they trend towards middle to upper-middle class. When polls have been done in the past, the median household income of people who responds has been well above the median household income in the US of $50,233 http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/...th/012528.html

[swd12422]

Originally Posted by crazycandigirl

... many other people can not afford them even as they spend the money. They rely on credit (though economy is changing in that regard) and spend money that they do not really have. We do not buy something if we do not have the money. Simple as that. ...

And this is why you ARE "rich" in that you don't have the debt that the majority of the world has. You can't compare your lifestyle to anyone else's, b/c you can never know the whole story. We live in a nice house, and I get funny looks from people when I refuse to pay $4 for a coffee out. Well, how do you think we can afford our nice house? It's not big, it's not fancy, but I'd rather live in it and skip the expensive coffee/cigarette/lunch out habits than live in a little dump and be able to go out every day.

I remember when I was still single and rented an apartment... I was out with a friend of a friend, and he asked me how old my car was. I told him (it was old, cheap, and paid for), and he said, "So you don't have a car payment." I said nope, I paid cash for it used (gave my sister blue book value for it). He said, "And you rent, so you don't have a mortgage.... What's your minimum payment on your credit card?" I said I didn't know, b/c I pay it off every month. He was dumbfounded. He said, "You don't have ANY debt? No loans?" Nope. He shook my hand and said, "Congratulations. You're the wealthiest person I know!" And you know what? It was true. Even if you have a house, car, and student loan payment, you're doing pretty dang well if you can pay them all monthly and not worry too much. You don't have to live in a mansion to be rich.

[Norasmomma]

I was just reading depending on the area the median income around the country varies from 30-60,000. So you are slightly under the middle.

I know that the county I live in the median income for a family of 4 is 32,000. I live in a poor county most of the people are ranchers/farmers, work for the gov or are in construction trades. It really varies depending on where you live.

[Drummer's Wife]

I just looked up the average income for my county and it said $72,000... And I live in in a relatively LCOL area compared to where we used to live.

I think that's what makes a difference. An average income goes far if you don't pay a ton for housing.

eta: the same link I was looking at (based off the 2000 census) stated $61 K for US average. I'm not so sure it's accurate for 2009, though.

[KayleeZoo]

DW, is that Bernalillo or Sandoval? Wow, that's higher than I would have thought for either one.

OP, I think it's fantastic that you make things work on $40K. Not having a lot of debt gives you so much more freedom, and that's awesome for you and your family

[laohaire]

Thanks guys, I DO feel better!

Though I am still not as well off as some of you implied.. we do have a lot of debt and I guess that's really the bottom line of why we're not rich. We have no cc debt, but we have 25k student loans, 8k car loan, and 106k mortgage. It's a lot of debt and I'm not seeing my way out anytime soon unfortunately. I can't wait to be free, but when I figure it out it's going to take sooooooo long to get there.

I live in western Massachusetts, it's probably right at the median for COL. Boston area of course is high COL but I live in the boonies and there are hardly any jobs out here even in good times.

[Drummer's Wife]

KZ, I'm in Sandoval. It is higher than i would have thought, too. Here's the link. Not sure how reliable it is, just what popped up when I googled...

[mamatoakd]

It's all relative. Even if you were above the national median and had all the things you listed, there would probably be something else to want. The vacation could be to somewhere nicer, the clothes could be from a fancier store, the phone could have lots of gadgets and services attached, etc.

I sometimes need to remove myself from friends that live large. It's easy to compare and feel sorry for myself when the reality is, we're happy with the way we live.

[KayleeZoo]

DW, isn't this weird? http://www.muninetguide.com/states/n...lbuquerque.php

The graphs say Sandoval is $62,022 and ABQ is $44,113. That's different than when you click on RR as a city.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by KayleeZoo

DW, isn't this weird? http://www.muninetguide.com/states/n...lbuquerque.php

The graphs say Sandoval is $62,022 and ABQ is $44,113. That's different than when you click on RR as a city.

yeah, odd! The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's not accurate. Maybe for certain neighborhoods, like Corrales, the avg income is higher.

[Belia]

OP- Heaven knows I'm not the greatest money manager, but it sounds to me like you are doing an amazing job of making your dollars stretch!!! Holy cow!! Splitting an order of fries once a month?? Two nights at a motel where you brought your own food?? I obviously don't know your entire situation, but I can't imagine where else you could cut even if you wanted to.

But that's not your point.... it's so frustrating when you do everything "right," yet it still doesn't seem to be enough to get ahead. In the meantime, Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt are prancing around on beaches and eating cakes shaped like machine guns. : Just don't seem right.

DH and I will be tightening up our budget in the next few months... I will come back to this post for inspiration when we get there. I think you sound amazing.

[crunchy_mama]

I would agree with others the big thing is a lot of people do all those things w/ a bunch of debt. We live on about that much but we have less than half that much debt so a lot of those luxuries we do have(our only debt is a mortgage of 60k that we owe maybe 30k on)- ie we do have cheap netflix- eat out occasionally- I buy clothes sometimes at yardsales or goodwill etc.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

I would agree with others the big thing is a lot of people do all those things w/ a bunch of debt. We live on about that much but we have less than half that much debt so a lot of those luxuries we do have(our only debt is a mortgage of 60k that we owe maybe 30k on)- ie we do have cheap netflix- eat out occasionally- I buy clothes sometimes at yardsales or goodwill etc.

Yeah, but see, they were trying to make me feel better!

[Ruthla]

My guess is that the people who you see spending money on all this stuff that you don't fall into one of two categories:

1) They're heavily in debt and/or don't have any savings- basically, they can't really afford these things even though they're paying for them.

2) They're making more money than you are. Perhaps both parents are working and they have $70,000 a year rather than $40,000, leaving plenty of extra for incidentals like take-out meals, cable TV, a 2nd car, etc.

[samandhenrysmom]

I found this link:
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Produc...03/R07T050.htm
My family could not survive in the community we live in on $40,000. I think you are doing great that you are not using credit cards and you are living w/in your means!

[liam's mom]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

KZ, I'm in Sandoval. It is higher than i would have thought, too. Here's the link. Not sure how reliable it is, just what popped up when I googled...

I'm in Santa Fe, and that site said the avg. was about $72.5K, which I could believe.

And, I do think the avg. US income is somewhere around 60K.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Though I am still not as well off as some of you implied.. we do have a lot of debt and I guess that's really the bottom line of why we're not rich. We have no cc debt, but we have 25k student loans, 8k car loan, and 106k mortgage.

We make way less than you but we finished college 10 and 15 years ago, me with $12 k debt which is paid off now, and him free and clear. Bought our car cash. No mortgage, we're investing in retirement.

You have a decent car and a house, that sounds rich to me!!! Oh, and what kinds of food do you buy? Organic is like eating out once a day. (ETA, even if you make it all yourself.)