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CDC wants US circ program - Page 4

post #61 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMommyNiceNice View Post
This is awful! I hope everyone took the poll at the todayshow.com. Bomb the board and let them know what people really think. Idiots!

I already voted, so it wouldn't let me go right to the page, but it's on the upper right hand side right under the pic of the baby.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/
Here's the direct link:
http://www.newsvine.com/_question/20...et-circumcised

Currently at 36% in favor of RIC, 60% opposed.
post #62 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narn View Post

Did anyone ever do a study on HIV transmission amonge circumcised FEMALES? If that showed a decrease in HIV would the CDC be pushing for cicumcision of a American FEMALES? I'd love to see that outcry.
That study was done also (comparing women who had previously undergone FGM with intact women). The FGM group had lover HIV infection rates, though also different cultural/economic background. Fortunately, there is no pro-FGM lobby in the USA at this time.
post #63 of 112
post #64 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy View Post
That study was done also (comparing women who had previously undergone FGM with intact women). The FGM group had lover HIV infection rates, though also different cultural/economic background. Fortunately, there is no pro-FGM lobby in the USA at this time.
I've heard this before- does anyone have a link to this info? I would LOVE to post it around...

-Angela
post #65 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I've heard this before- does anyone have a link to this info? I would LOVE to post it around...

-Angela
http://www.ias-2005.org/planner/Abstracts.aspx?AID=3138
post #66 of 112
here is an article that pokes holes in the Africa study:

http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html

If only we could get people to bother reading it.
post #67 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbutts View Post
here is an article that pokes holes in the Africa study:

http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html

If only we could get people to bother reading it.
I just posted this on Facebook. A lot of people I know are pregnant right now, including at least two with boys. Hopefully this will make a difference.
post #68 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by annethcz View Post
Here's the direct link:
http://www.newsvine.com/_question/20...et-circumcised

Currently at 36% in favor of RIC, 60% opposed.
I voted.
post #69 of 112
OK, here is the abstract book for the conference:
http://www.2009nhpc.org/doc/2009_NHPC_Abstract_Book.pdf

On page 140 is the one you have been referring to: DR09 - Introducing Male Circumcision for HIV Prevention in Non-Circumcising Communities in the U.S.

Looks like they are going to be specifically targeting African-Americans and Hispanics

Also of interest page 221
Presentation Title: Elective Male Circumcision for the Prevention of HIV

and page 13
Presentation Title: Physicians’ Knowledge of and Attitudes Toward Male Circumcision as a Means to Reduce HIV Acquisition

I think the big mistake they are making is that it makes no sense to circumcise infants as they do not have sex, but should instead just educate sexually active male adults that if they want to have repeated unprotected sex with partners of which they are not sure of their HIV status, circumcision can delay how long it takes for them to contract HIV
post #70 of 112
I'm happily surprised by the poll percentage rates against circ! Did MDC just blow it up or what?! Or better thought: is the US really changing?
post #71 of 112
NPR was talking about the studies in Africa this morning. Actually everyone- the hosts and guests felt that the study couldn't really be translated to the US. We have the highest rate of circumcision of industrialized countries and also the highest rate of HIV.

The host really went after the idea that these studies mean every newborn boy should be circumcized. The one guest said that parents should present the pros and cons and he said- "what, to the baby?".
post #72 of 112
The study that I would like to see is "HIV and STD transmission in Newborn Males". THAT ONE might get some attention, no?

CDC is a UAV.
post #73 of 112
I vomited when I heard yesterday, literaly. I am so mad and sad and pissed and every bad emotion there is!
I am going to post the video in the link here on my facebook who wants to join me, people have to see what they are doing, more than likely they are not! WHO WANTS TO JOIN ME!?
post #74 of 112
I'm ready for a bumper sticker. Usually, I keep opions to myself (IRL lol), but I really want an anti circ sticker. Where can I get one?
post #75 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambom View Post
NPR was talking about the studies in Africa this morning. Actually everyone- the hosts and guests felt that the study couldn't really be translated to the US. We have the highest rate of circumcision of industrialized countries and also the highest rate of HIV.

The host really went after the idea that these studies mean every newborn boy should be circumcized. The one guest said that parents should present the pros and cons and he said- "what, to the baby?".
What show was that? I'd like to listen to the archive.
post #76 of 112
It's rather obvious they don't approach this from a logical, scientific or ethical standpoint...and we have pretty clear evidence how in Europe we have really low rates of HIV with an intact culture. And here in the US, where the majority of men are already circ'd we have much higher rates.

Yes, the CDC and those making up this policy are all made up of circumcised men....I'm sure they wouldn't admit to any bias.

Mass cultural psychosis--that is what this whole phenomenon is. And, for those of us who have the ability to take a step back, to use logic and reason are pretty darn &*(^&* mad about what is going on. Now, with the tides turning the last 15 years or so, people are questioning and they medical community now making that mad dash to do something to increase the plummiting circumcision rates to ensure not only their steady source of income among other things...

It seems pretty flippin obvious that we shouldn't have a right to chop normal parts off of our children's genitals. How can people not see that?

What is with the double standard. Why? Don't my baby boys deserve protection as much as my baby girls?

(speaking as a mother of 2 boys and 2 girls all of this stuff freaks me out...what does it mean for future generations?)

Just when I thought people in this country were seeing the lunacy!

And, you know, they don't want to do a true study on circumcision death/complication rates in infants. Because if they did one they would likely find out it was like that study they did in Britain all those years ago, after which virtually circumcision stopped, because they discovered how risky it was.

Head beating against the wall...

how many baby boys/men are going to be suffering because of this?

They really need to have some non-biased pediatricians/MDs address these issues in the media.
post #77 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambom View Post
NPR was talking about the studies in Africa this morning. Actually everyone- the hosts and guests felt that the study couldn't really be translated to the US. We have the highest rate of circumcision of industrialized countries and also the highest rate of HIV.

The host really went after the idea that these studies mean every newborn boy should be circumcized. The one guest said that parents should present the pros and cons and he said- "what, to the baby?".
Yes...educated people GET THIS!
post #78 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyGG View Post
If it is so effective at preventing HIV transmission why are we not recommending that the 40% of the US population of ADULT males who are uncircumcised go get the procedure? (You know the people who are actually having sex)"
Quote:
Originally Posted by zensven42
I think the big mistake they are making is that it makes no sense to circumcise infants as they do not have sex, but should instead just educate sexually active male adults that if they want to have repeated unprotected sex with partners of which they are not sure of their HIV status, circumcision can delay how long it takes for them to contract HIV
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiara7
The study that I would like to see is "HIV and STD transmission in Newborn Males". THAT ONE might get some attention, no?
ITA with these points raised by PPs. I see this as the same rationale CDC uses with the recommendation to give newborns - at only a few days old - a vaccination for hepatitis. Where, like this, the target population for the vaccination is promiscuous, illicit drug-using adults.

In both cases, the risk of CDC's "prevention" strategy (RIC) is borne by many many babies that grow up *not* to engage in the risky behavior that would make the "prevention" necessary in the first place. (And that generously assumes that circ actually would prevent some HIV transmissions, which I am not sure has actually been established). It's like punishing the many for the "sins" of the few. It isn't logical.
post #79 of 112
This was recently on the Today show... they were saying that the AAP was planing on changing their position on circ too.
post #80 of 112
http://www.healthnews.com/family-hea...-hiv-3469.html

You know, it's amazing that these researchers can't see their bias :...they go out to prove one thing (circ decreases HIV for women for example) and then start a study, then stop the study--not because they find more women being infected by the circumcised partners (which was the case) but because their research not only didn't support their position but refuted it...

Circumcision in men appears to increase HIV transmission from men to women. I dont' think a lot of us women here are surprised about that. Because we know that the foreskin insures that a woman's natural lubrication stays in, and also ensures comfortable and less abrasive intercourse. Circumcision, allowed the natural lubrication to wick out, and decreased sensitivity often leads to men requiring rougher intercourse in order to climax.

The overwhelming majority of women I've talked to IRL and here on MDC agree with those...and scientifically the machanics are correct. If you look at animal studies where circumcision were performed on the males you see those same sort of issues with coitus. I took an animal physiology course in college and they had 'the purpose of the foreskin' on there (of course though I'm sure most of the men in the class wanted to just not consider themselves as having 'animal physiology' though it was indeed applicable to humans.

It's just so plain obvious what the plan here is.... That is what bugs the *&(^ out of me. It defies logic, and just when I think for once the majority of the population is starting to question this routine genital alteration of boys this kind of stuff happens. Grrr....

And, of course in irony in this article the picture up there is a bunch of condoms. Which of course is the only proven way to prevent HIV transmission.

What are we telling our future generations of men here?

As a parent, logic tells me that I teach my children about safer sex practices. It is about education.

You don't chop off nerve dense tissue from their private parts because you think they might not wear condoms. You teach them to wear condoms, and you give the education to make the right decisions.

This is not sub saharan Africa either...if you look at the Australian PDF which has their stance, it is quite reasonable. The main mode of transmission is receptive anal intercourse--I believe that is the same here in the US. The heterosexual trasmission from a woman to a man is rather low as it is--and I think people forget that and start making blanket statements. I've already heard the US media here using the blanket statement "circumcision reduces the rate of HIV 60%" while in reality they have no clue what their saying and what it implies is completley different than what is accurate. That was one study in AFRICA which only studied heterosexual female to male transmission. That is not a common way for HIV to be transmitted in this country at all. So, no way in heck it would reduce HIV by 60% ...it's such a joke that the media is representing it this way because here we are, with the majority of US men circumcised and we've got the highest HIV rates in the developed world.

::

I'm trying to not get upset, but it's really difficult not to. Because when you're not biased, and you read the facts and a scientist it's pretty darn obvious this should not be applied to newborn babies in this country!
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