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I have > 2 weeks of food journals for DS completed...now what?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I have over two weeks of food journals (almost) completed (I'm going back and writing out the ingredients for every processed food or recipe). So now what? How do I approach figuring out what is causing his night disturbances?

I'd also love to post them for someone more experienced to go through, but they're long and detailed (with behavior/sleep disturbances highlighted) and I don't think they'd format very well as a post here. Can I attach a file or something?
post #2 of 12
I think people scan them in and post them elsewhere and then post a link, but I don't know where.

Is his sleep disturbance every night or is there a pattern?
How old is he?
Is he nursing still or only on solids? (as in, are you writing what you're eating, what he's eating, or both?)
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
I think people scan them in and post them elsewhere and then post a link, but I don't know where.

Is his sleep disturbance every night or is there a pattern?
How old is he?
Is he nursing still or only on solids? (as in, are you writing what you're eating, what he's eating, or both?)
No, not every night. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

He just turned four.

He hasn't nursed for over six months, so I'm only concerned with what he's eating.
post #4 of 12
Figure out a way to post it. I love doing detective work!
post #5 of 12
Google docs are an easy place to post files (and others can add/edit/comment if you invite them to).
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Wow, thanks MelW -- I had no idea such a thing existed.

Here's the link. Pretty please? :

(The stuff in yellow is behavioral things I've noticed along with night disturbances -- though the behavorial things were short-lived and occured around his fourth birthday, so they may have just been developmental.)
post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mama View Post
Wow, thanks MelW -- I had no idea such a thing existed.

Here's the link. Pretty please? :

(The stuff in yellow is behavioral things I've noticed along with night disturbances -- though the behavorial things were short-lived and occured around his fourth birthday, so they may have just been developmental.)
How do you get into the link? Do we have to get a password or something? It just gets me to the main google page.

Never mind. I figured it out. I don't have a printer here though, so I'm going to have to write it all out somehow. Are there any foods that you KNOW are a problem (so that we can figure out food families)?

When you say "upper lip red noted" then does it go away before you note it again? How long does it stay red?
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
How do you get into the link? Do we have to get a password or something? It just gets me to the main google page.

Never mind. I figured it out. I don't have a printer here though, so I'm going to have to write it all out somehow. Are there any foods that you KNOW are a problem (so that we can figure out food families)?

When you say "upper lip red noted" then does it go away before you note it again? How long does it stay red?
I don't know of any for sure that are a problem, but it seems like the few times he had apples right before bed in the few weeks of keeping a journal he had a bad night that night.

His lip stays red until the next day.
post #9 of 12
1) I want some liver sausage!! Where did you find that? What brand? Do you like it?!

2) Are the night time upsets going to bed, or after sleeping soundly for a while? I know if I stayed up late and ds would awaken without me there, he'd be out of sorts. Is he getting up to void in the middle of the night? A full bladder would get ds writhing around and restless too. Holding off on a lot of liquids after about 6pm helps with sleeping more soundly here.

3) Salicylates jumped out at me.

4) I'm wondering about more calories and more frequent fats which could help with leveling blood sugar, especially for energetic little people. Maybe adding some more butter, coconut oil, avocado.


Pat
post #10 of 12
When I first looked it over, I thought it was going to be dates from the Larabars, but then he had a larabar another time and was fine (no aggressive behavior).

You use stuff with a lot of ingredients!! is there a possibility you could rotate foods to make it easier to figure out? or not use so many processed foods?

The deli meat is problematic.Even if the ingredients are okay, there's still such a problem with x-contamination (as I'm finding out).

Also, you use things with "vinegar" where it doesn't specify the kind (and if you've got a wheat problem vs. just gluten then you could have an issue with that). Caramel color can be dairy or corn, so if there's a dairy problem, then that could be an issue. I haven't even looked at the red lip issue, but I'm getting there...

What kind of salami do you use? I thought most of it has lactic acid starter in it (which can be grown on dairy).

Are you using gluten-free oatmeal? Alot of gluten free people have a problem with oatmeal whether it's gluten-free or not.

Why are you gluten free and dairy free if you don't know they're a problem? Just because they're the top 2? I'd probably also take out the corn and soy if that's the case, and then you'll be more likely to figure out the other stuff.

I wonder about salicylates as well.

What makes it difficult is that you have night waking, hitting/aggressive behavior, upper lip red, and thrashing/freakout nights, and they may all have different triggers. With DD2, I eliminated one thing at a time (ala Doris Rapp, in "Is This Your Child?" until I got to baseline (absolutely no symptoms) then added things back in one at a time to figure out which food was causing which trigger (though I took out more than she did in her elimination, and added things back in much more slowly).
post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
3) Salicylates jumped out at me.
Pat
Yup, same here.

I will say, he actually seems to have pretty decent sals tolerance, but on Aug 9, the day of all the behavioral stuff, he had TONS of sals. So he seems to do a moderate amount OK, but not a huge load. I'd try a week of pulling high sals fruits (berries, cherries, apples, any dried fruit/bars/leathers, any fruit flavors) and high sals nuts (almonds in particular are sky high), and see what happens. If that shows improvement, you can start trying to find the size of his sals bucket. If it doesn't, pull some more high sals foods (any prepared meats, vinegars, foods with lots of spices - sage, thyme, cinnamon...).

If it is sals, it will help to write down quantities of food he eats (e.g. 2 sips of smoothie or 2 cups). One thing I notice is often he has high sals condiments for dinner on the bad nights (ketchup, vinegary dressing, etc). It would really be useful to know whether he eats a little ketchup or a lot .
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much, guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
When you say "upper lip red noted" then does it go away before you note it again? How long does it stay red?
His lip stays red until the end of the day or so. Maybe a few hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
1) I want some liver sausage!! Where did you find that? What brand? Do you like it?!
My mom buys it every week when we go there for lunch, and then she sends the rest of it home with us. I think it's Usinger's brand -- they're based in Milwaukee (near us). I've called and they assured me there's no dairy, gluten or eggs. It's delish!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
2) Are the night time upsets going to bed, or after sleeping soundly for a while? I know if I stayed up late and ds would awaken without me there, he'd be out of sorts. Is he getting up to void in the middle of the night? A full bladder would get ds writhing around and restless too. Holding off on a lot of liquids after about 6pm helps with sleeping more soundly here.
The nighttime disturbances are after he's been sleeping soundly a while, usually a few hours after he falls asleep (but occasionally later). He's still wearing diapers, but he's been dry all night for over a year, I think. So he could be upset from having a full bladder. He has a water bottle he sips from whenever he wants, including before bed, while he's falling asleep and sometimes in the middle of the night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
3) Salicylates jumped out at me.
I have the Failsafe book on order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
4) I'm wondering about more calories and more frequent fats which could help with leveling blood sugar, especially for energetic little people. Maybe adding some more butter, coconut oil, avocado.
Really? More calories and fats? He eats a lot of coconut milk yogurt. I'll have to go back and look through the journal for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
You use stuff with a lot of ingredients!! is there a possibility you could rotate foods to make it easier to figure out? or not use so many processed foods?
I honestly had no idea we were eating foods with so many ingredients until I had to write it all out! I mean, it's the yogurt, the condiments, etc. I cook almost all our meals from scratch...or thought I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
The deli meat is problematic.Even if the ingredients are okay, there's still such a problem with x-contamination (as I'm finding out).
Yeah, I don't do deli meat unless it's Applegate Farms, but my mom does, and we go there for lunch once a week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
Also, you use things with "vinegar" where it doesn't specify the kind (and if you've got a wheat problem vs. just gluten then you could have an issue with that). Caramel color can be dairy or corn, so if there's a dairy problem, then that could be an issue. I haven't even looked at the red lip issue, but I'm getting there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
What kind of salami do you use? I thought most of it has lactic acid starter in it (which can be grown on dairy).
I didn't know that -- my mom buys the salami at her deli.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
Are you using gluten-free oatmeal? Alot of gluten free people have a problem with oatmeal whether it's gluten-free or not.
Yes, we are using gluten-free oatmeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
Why are you gluten free and dairy free if you don't know they're a problem? Just because they're the top 2? I'd probably also take out the corn and soy if that's the case, and then you'll be more likely to figure out the other stuff.
We're gluten- and dairy-free because both EnteroLab and IgG testing indicated those things were a problem. We're egg-free because of IgG testing, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
What makes it difficult is that you have night waking, hitting/aggressive behavior, upper lip red, and thrashing/freakout nights, and they may all have different triggers. With DD2, I eliminated one thing at a time (ala Doris Rapp, in "Is This Your Child?" until I got to baseline (absolutely no symptoms) then added things back in one at a time to figure out which food was causing which trigger (though I took out more than she did in her elimination, and added things back in much more slowly).
I think I'm more concerned with the nighttime disturbances, because the aggressive behavior seems to have abated. It was a short-term thing about half a week or so around his birthday -- I'm thinking now that it was developmental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
I will say, he actually seems to have pretty decent sals tolerance, but on Aug 9, the day of all the behavioral stuff, he had TONS of sals. So he seems to do a moderate amount OK, but not a huge load. I'd try a week of pulling high sals fruits (berries, cherries, apples, any dried fruit/bars/leathers, any fruit flavors) and high sals nuts (almonds in particular are sky high), and see what happens. If that shows improvement, you can start trying to find the size of his sals bucket. If it doesn't, pull some more high sals foods (any prepared meats, vinegars, foods with lots of spices - sage, thyme, cinnamon...).

If it is sals, it will help to write down quantities of food he eats (e.g. 2 sips of smoothie or 2 cups). One thing I notice is often he has high sals condiments for dinner on the bad nights (ketchup, vinegary dressing, etc). It would really be useful to know whether he eats a little ketchup or a lot .
When we have brats or burgers he uses a fair amount of ketchup, but it's hard to tell for sure because we squirt it on his plate, he mops it around, and then we squirt more.

How long do the sals last in his system? For instance, if he has fruit leathers mid-day but a good night, does that mean anything? Or could it be just certain kinds of sals foods? Or is it, like you said, that he reaches a limit for the day?
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