I need help.

[ticklemegreen]

I work as a nanny for an 8 year old. I have been with his family for over a year and a half and he does NOT listen to me. He YELLS at me, literally screams at me. When I tell him that he needs to listen to me he says "no, you need to listen to me" or "I don't HAVE to listen to you" Now, for the most part all of the behavioral problems happen during homework.

I've tried my own version of GD, but he doesn't respond to it. I'm pretty sure his parents yell to get him to listen, so I think that's why he didn't respond to the GD.

I've done time-outs, after his time-out I would go through a list of questions like "why did you have to go to time-out", "what can you do next time to avoid this" etc. I've watched lost of kids and always used TO's and always asked questions, never had a problem before, but he gives me such a hard time! "Oh, come on. This is stupid" etc.

Another way his parents discipline is with exercise (which I find really strange) so we tried that after many month of TO failing. So he'd do something bad and I would tell him he needs to give me 10 push ups. I HATE doing that though. I don't think it's an appropriate way to inforce discipline. Once again I would ask him my normal questions and he would flip out on me. But I want to make sure he knows why he is getting in trouble (so he can fix it)

So with the new school year, I knew I needed a new plan. So, I decided we would do a monetary system. His parents love the idea, because it also helps him learn the value of money. My idea was that he would start off each week with $5 and every time he did something good (bring in the trash, play with his little brother) he would get another $1. If he was misbehaving (yelling, not listening) he would lose $1. And at the end of the week he could either buy something or save it and add it to the next week. He was thrilled. Couldn't wait to start.

So today we started and it was a disaster! He acted like his usual self during home work, not listening, singing and drumming instead of doing his hw. So I took away a dollar, he then started to SCREAM at me, so I took away another dollar. He.lost.it. I had to send him to his room so we could both calm down. He returned and his behavior didn't change at all. I tried to be honest with him and tell him that when he behaves like this it hurts my feelings, that I don't like to be yelled at. He was so rude and disrespectful. Now, I don't yell. It takes a lot to get me to the point where I will raise my voice. But after months and months of his behavior I lost it. I ended up screaming at him and telling him I didn't want to be his nanny not my best moment.

I just dont know what to do. I've told his parents numerous times about his bad behavior and they don't address it. They say they will, but don't. I really think a lot of his bad behavior stems from the fact he would rather be doing his homework with him mom, not me. I also watch his little brother, who is wonderful. Very smart and well behaved. I use and have used gd with the little one since I started and it works great with him!

[eirual]

Sounds like the kid's had a life full of being lead-around by carrots. Drop the punishments and the rewards (ever read Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting? If not, you should!). I find kids that get their back up that huge and have that much anger really want only one thing- their parents' unconditional love and just some freaking attention. Real quality time where societal pressures aren't applied.

Go in the next day being honest. Appologize for the way things went and what you said. Be genuine and remember why you love him- if you don't remember why his parents do- if they don't, then gawd, he needs your compasion more than ever!). Be his buddy, be non-judgmental, and be willing to help him work through his anger. Find things that genuinely interest him. Ask him if he'd like more time with his parents, and brainstorm ways that you can make that happen (offering to make dinner so they can have an hour focused on him?)

Here I am assuming I'm on the right page. If he's truly been loved unconditionally, then maybe he needs some more structure, but by the tactics you mentionned in your post, I doubt that's the case and he's probably sick of being ignored as a person and being judged solely on output.

Good luck:

[BellinghamCrunchie]

This was the first day of the dollar system, right? And he hadn't even earned one dollar yet, and had already begun getting himself in a hole. He hasn't had a chance to "buy" anything yet, so he doesn't know what the reward part is going to be like. Right now, its just one more negative consequence and no positive ones.

It sounds like most of the problems occur during homework.

It also sounds like there hasn't been much positive consequences (rewards, etc) for doing things right but a lot of negative consequences (punishments, time-outs, etc) have been used.

Its going to take a lot of work to turn this around. More than one day.

I think you should look very closely at the homework. See if you can break it into smaller parts, where he does one small thing (e.g. one page) then gets a dollar (or token), so that the rewards are more frequent. Also let him spend all the tokens immediately after finishing the homework. Give him the choice of not doing a part of the homework... it just means he earns one less dollar (or token or sticker or whatever you choose to use) and has less to spend at the end. He might realize, when he's done, that he doesn't have quite enough to buy that cool thing that he wants and now wants to go back and finish the part he didn't do.

See if it can be done at a different time of the day, or in a different place.

See if you can break it up so that he does five minutes before dinner, and ten minutes after, then watches a TV show or whatever, then does ten minutes more. Or something so that its not quite so formidable.

During homework time, ignore screaming and talking back (homework is already heavily charged for him for some reason - no need to add additional stress into the mix) and respond warmly and positively to appropriate statements and cooperation. At the end, hug him for getting through it, acknowledge how hard it was for him, find something positive about the whole thing even though his behavior at times was extremely trying.

Look at the homework itself. Is it too hard? Too boring? Too much? Is there a way to make it more fun? Will the teacher accept the same work in a different format? Is there a computer game that targets the same activities?

I'll bet if you can find a way to connect and survive the homework, and have fun and build trust and attachment, the behaviors that occur outside of homework time will begin to resolve, as well. The homework is providing you with a great opportunity to find a meaningful way to connect with this child.

[ticklemegreen]

Thanks for the replies. I'm finding both very helpful.

Something I forgot to mention was that I have done rewards before. If he had a really good week or what not we would get a special treat, like ice cream or even go see a movie, just the two of us. Only directly after his reward his bad behavior would start again. :

Also, his little brother is 6 years younger than he is. I feel like there is a lot of jealousy, that was never addressed. I try and plan activities with just the older one and usually he really enjoys them and behaves, but I can only give him so much 1 on 1. Sometimes the Grandmother will watch the little one, so that I can do something with the older one, but most of the time we have to leave the younger one at daycare.

I will definitely try to continue the reward system, my dh also suggested that I don't take away any coins, only give him coins for good behavior.

[foehnjye]

I agree that you should read the Unconditional Parenting book by Alfie Kohn to get a better understanding of how rewards and punishments can be so detrimental to a child. Also, how much homework does he have? Is it more than 30 minutes a day? Is there a way to work with the teacher to see if he can get some of the homework done during class time so he's not feeling overburdened with homework once he gets home? Is he able to come home and play and just decompress for a while before starting in on the task?

Alfie Kohn also has another great book, The Homework Myth, that you might want to check out too. Good luck!

[ticklemegreen]

His homework shouldn't take more than 30 minutes, but he makes it take longer. He has the same hw schedule every week. One monday he'll take 15 mins to get it all done, the next could take an hour and a half. It's not that it's too hard or too much. He'll sit a the table and drum or sing. He'll sharpen his perfectly sharp pensil 3 or 4 times. He'll say he's hungry after eating a meals worth of food. etc.

He does usually get 15 mins to play before hw. Sometimes, he'll say he wants to skip it and just get his hw done though. I think he have more time to have a snack and play when he gets home, but his Dad wanted him to just immediately start hw and his Mom talked the Dad into 15 mins.

I will look into the books, thank you.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

My DS hates homework. Last year when we had an afterschool nanny I asked her to try to get things done but too let it go if she couldn't get cooperation without everyone getting frustrated. I always felt it was my responsiblity to work through the hard stuff, not the nanny's. Whatever you do, I think you need to make sure you have parental buyin (which it sounds like you did). Any chance of having a meeting where you ALL agree to implement one plan throughout both their time with him and yours? That would probably help.

I wouldn't think it was the nanny's place to try to change a teacher's homework assignments or expectations. If I were a parent I would be pretty angry if my nanny did that, so I would definitely ask them before approaching the school. But then again, I probably would handle this entire situation differently, so I'm probably not the best judge of what might work here.

Someone gave me a book called the "Homework Solution" or something similar. It basically advocated a pretty strict homework routine. Set timer for X minutes, add time for all time wasted during that time, but not requiring work beyond that amount of time. Didn't really sit well with me, but might be worth exploring.

The biggest thing that helped my DS finally get into the homework routine was to keep him company and to eliminate all of the jealously resulting from little sister doing something fun while he was stuck doing homework. So we finally said that 4-5 PM was "homework time" and that there would be no TV or loud play, from anyone, during that time. I would sit and read or meal plan or whatever while DS did his homework, and DD would generally play on the computer or with something in her room. DS did much better in the dining room than alone is his room as well.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by ticklemegreen

He does usually get 15 mins to play before hw. Sometimes, he'll say he wants to skip it and just get his hw done though. I think he have more time to have a snack and play when he gets home, but his Dad wanted him to just immediately start hw and his Mom talked the Dad into 15 mins.

Hm... you might ask for permission to experiment with a completely different schedule for a couple of weeks and see if that helps. There are some advantages to doing homework right away but it doesn't work for everyone. Since the dad isn't the one who has to fight with this every day, he might not understand that there might be a better approach. But that puts you in a really difficult place of executing his dad's dictates without any real tools for doing so. Tough on you, and him!

[PikkuMyy]

I agree with everything BellinghamCrunchie said and here's some more.

Keep in mind that I'm a behavioral therapist for kids with developmental disabilities and behavior issues.

1. As others have said, this is a long history of punishment-driven relationships with adults in his life.

2. Everything is so negative already, and most of the responses to his inappropriate behavior are more negative. It's a downward spiral. The way it's set up now is setting him up to fail, and I don't blame him for how he's responding.

3. Should you choose a reward system, please create it carefully and systematically, follow BC's advice, and as your husband said, NEVER take back what he's earned. Otherwise you are just teaching him that it doesn't matter if he has good times/days, the bad ones will just make it be like they were all bad.

4. 15 minutes to play before homework? No wonder he's not ready to do it. Kids need more than 15 minutes to unwind before they do more work after a full day of homework. I'd say he needs at least 45-90 minutes, with physical activity, a snack, and some relaxing time before he's suppposed to start his work. He just spent at least 6 hours at school already doing work.