would you adopt dog with sep anxiety?

[Shenjall]

(another title says it all post, lol)


We saw a dog we really liked. She's 2.5 years, lab mix, very docile, sweet natured. (at least what we got from our brief meeting with her and her write up) She was missing some hair on her nose and the side of her body, when we asked about her we were told the vet figures she may have some sep anxiety. (she was boarded with her sister and then the owners never came back)

So, is this just a stupid mess to get myself into? Should I keep looking? The only reference I have for this behaviour is a close friend who's dog has a severe case of it. So much so its putting a major strain on their family. So, obviously she's telling me to run far away, but her opinion is biased as you can imagine. (she has tried everything she can, consulted many trainers, vets, etc, over the 12 years she's had her)

So, basically, can anyone give me some of their experiences with dealing with SA in dogs?
TIA

[MissMommyNiceNice]

I think a lot of rescue dogs have seperation anxiety. I know mine does. He was approx 3 mos old (they think) when we got him, maybe 5 at the most. Anyway, he was obviously from a house (he knew a couple commands & never peed in the house but once) and was only in the kennel for about a week (his holding period - we picked him the first day he was on the floor).

It's worse when we leave the house, barking uncontrollably. We've been working on it. I don't think it's that bad. There are worse things a rescue dog can have (aggressive comes first to mind). A good class can help take care of things. We haven't gone to one personally, but friends with older rescue dogs have and it worked wonders. With us, we're home almost all the time, so it's easy to work with him. If you are both working or the dog will be alone for long hours, it's more of a consideration.

[Shenjall]

I'm a sahm, and will be doing in home babysitting come fall. So, I'm pretty much home all the time. So, I think that would be a good thing for her, but would that make it worse if we were to go out?

I guess I'm also wondering if SA is the worst thing you can find in a dog? (besides aggression) Is it something that usually gets worse and uncontrollable?

[phatchristy]

Personally, with a busy family life and a lot of responsibility, I would not adopt a dog with pre-existing issues.

[phatchristy]

...oh, and welcome back to the pets section! I don't think I've seen you post here in a while!

[Ola_]

One of our dogs has separation anxiety, though at this point it is pretty well managed. A lot depends on the severity of it - you could end up with a destroyed house and an injured dog at worst. Some SA dogs benefit from having another dog around, ours definitely does, while others cannot live without their people and sometimes even a specific person.

While training classes are a great idea for any newly adopted dog, they are not a solution to SA. Typically it takes a bit of time to desensitize and find what will work for the individual dog. In the meantime it makes leaving the house cumbersome at best. For example, what we found worked best for our SA dog is sufficient exercise before we leave the house (a walk at least 30 min long, time in the backyard does not count). He does best on a set routine, though this was more important at the beginning and is more flexible now. As I mentioned having our other dog there helps a lot. We crated him at first but he actually does amazingly better left loose (though this was a huge leap of faith due to the destructiveness we saw before).

Since you are home most of the time it may be true that the anxiety will be worse when you do leave, if it is not often. I would work on this on a regular basis (leave for short durations and build up) even though this is inconvenient, esp. with kids. I also wanted to mention that SA in a strange, lonely place like a kennel does not necessarily transfer to home life, esp. once the dog has adjusted to you and your routines, it may be just situational anxiety rather than true separation anxiety.

[Sailor]

It really depends. I'm with my dog - almost 24/7. I mean, we do go out sometimes without him (obviously). But, for the most part, he's with me. So, with my lifestyle a dog with separation anxiety wouldn't be such a problem. Thus, I'd adopt.

You have to look at your lifestyle. Will the dog be alone at home most of the time? Or will he be around people most of the time?

Also, there are various degrees of anxiety. From mild to severe ... it just depends. Plus, the dog may adjust to a life with you and never experience separation anxiety once he realizes you're not abandoning him forever.

[waterproofmascara]

I would never knowingly get a dog that had separation anxiety. I had a rescue dachshund mix, Natalie, who was no more than 8 pounds fully grown. She was a tiny little thing but had major SA. She chewed through a plastic baby gate, chewed several walls and door facings, and would claw at the crate until her little paws were bloody. (And she ate every pair of underwear she could get her little paws on : )

I tried everything I could think of, but nothing helped. I finally re-homed her to an elderly house-confined woman in my neighborhood and they both lived happily ever after.

I would never put myself or an animal through that again.

[Girl In The Fire]

Am I reading right that they believe the dog has sep anxiety because it is missing fur on her nose and on her side? Have they tested for mange or other health issues that would cause hair loss?

I would never knowingly adopt a dog that had sep anxiety. We adopted one with very severe SA years ago. We did not know it at the time but it soon became apperant. We were home almost all day but when we would go out the dog would have full blown panic attacks and loose his mind. He would scream and howl, drool, pace frantically, loose control of bladder and bowels, destroy rooms, if he was crated he would destroy crates (metal and plastic). He injured himself many times trying to escape crates. When we adopted him most of his teeth were broken or worn to nubs and the ones that were not eventually broke off from his frantic obsessive chewing.

We consulted behaviorists and trainers and tried medication but none of it worked. He was an older dog and it was a very ingrained habit

Obviously mild SA wont be such a serious issue. If the dog is young and you are willing to put in a lot of work you can probably reduce or extinguish the behavior. If it is severe and a long ingrained habit your chances of success decrease.

Since the dog has been in a shelter environment you cant really gauge how bad the SA is or if it even exists. Some points to consider:

Even if you are home 99% of the time you will have to go out w/o the dog at some point. A lot of damage can happen in a very short amount of time.

If the SA is severe will you and your family be willing to clean up urine and feces every time you come home?

Will neighbors complain about barking/howling/screaming?

If the dog injures itself while having panic attacks can you afford regular $$$ vet bills?

Are you willing to fix thousands of dollars of damage?

Are you willing to shell out a lot of money for a behaviorist to help manage the SA?

Can you invest a lot of time in doing behavior modification?

If behavior modification/management does not work are you willing to accept that possibility?


If you cant answer yes to every single question IMO you shouldn't adopt the dog. There are tons of super dogs with out behavior problems in shelters, you might have to look for a bit longer but they are out there.

[newbymom05]

Our dog had SA when we adopted him, although no where near as bad as the PP. I was a SAHW when we adopted him, and when I got a very PT job I'd exercise him hard and leave him w/ a bunch of chew toys. He never destroyed anything, the neighbors never complained of barking, and the only times he ever peed in the house were when we were home but in a different room w/ the door shut. We stopped shutting doors, lol. We started out crating him but he was h/b and seemed to do better out.

He used to have to be next to someone every single minute we were home--follow us from room to room and be physically touching us. But since I was almost always home (became a SAHW/M soon after) it wasn't bad. Three years later my mom pointed out that he didn't have to be next to someone anymore. 3 years later! So if you go the SA route (and I"m glad we did, he's a lovely companion), don't expect it to go away, even w/ heavy doses of love and attention. We honestly rearranged our lives to accomodate our dog's SA and it still took years for him to get over it and trust that we left, we were coming back.

We didn't realize our dog had SA when we adopted him, although it became apparent pretty quickly. After reading the above posts, I might think twice about a SA rescue unless s/he really seemed to mesh with our family.

[Shenjall]

Originally Posted by phatchristy

...oh, and welcome back to the pets section! I don't think I've seen you post here in a while!

Thanks! I've been mothering-m.i.a for awhile, lol. I was thinking about you the other day - my cat started carrying barbie dolls around, lol, and I started to wonder, "What would phatchristy think about this?"

Multi quote isnt working for me, not sure why, but yes, they think the hair loss is due to SA, and as far as I know havent tested for anything else. It was a quick conversation about her. I was wondering about skin issues as well. I mean, she's in a shelter, eating whatever food they can afford, maybe its just a food allergy or something? She was really relaxed in her pen when we first saw her. Just chilling, but I understand it was just a small glimpse.

So we went back last nite to actually meet her, just to get a feel, yk? And maybe talk a bit more and dig a little deeper to be sure. This time we got to get closer to her, so she could sniff us and such (its just glass windows when you walk around, if you want to meet them, you have to get someone to take you around). The girl was so scared at first. No aggression though, just head down, looking up, unsure. My dh crouched down, talked to her, let her smell him some more and then let him pet her. Her head picked up, body relaxed and tail wagged. Then she let all of us pet and love her. We all got kisses. It was time for her walk so they let us watch. (we just stayed far, far back, didnt want to overwhelm her since its obvious she's nervous) and when she got out to the common area, her tail was tucked under pretty tight. No growling, or hyper behaviour, just tail tucked in, head down looking up at everyone.

So, needless to say this timidness is slightly concerning. It was close to closing and it seems we got the newbie "helping" us, so there wasnt any questions answered. It was more of a quick meet to see how she felt for us and the family.

So, heres where my mind is at. (I'm thinking out loud here, )
She's timid and may/may not have SA. Is this b/c of her current living situation? Would a good stable, patient, loving home be what would help her come out of her shell? Are these two visits (and only 1 of them without a pane of glass) really a true glimpse of her? I mean, if I was ditched by my family and in a strange smelly place would I be overly excited or would I be cautious? Isnt it understandable she's a little off? Or maybe this *is* who she is and will always be this way? Wont almost every shelter dog need some work, otherwise why would they be there? Or do they need work b/c they are there?
Do I follow my heart and the rest will work out? I have alot of patience, I really do. Do I trust my instincts? Would a dog with SA really be that calm in her pen? (its a closed pen in a private room, theres nothing else in there. she had a bed and a water dish) Is it possible to tell if its there and how bad it is? (without a crystal ball of course)

We're not making final decisions. We're following the "when in doubt, dont" theory. But our stupid hearts keep coming back to her, yk? Of course, I may be just over sentimental (which I'm usually not with animals) but my instincts keep saying, theres a good dog in there, she just needs someone to help bring her out. Bring her to her true potential. But then I think, wth do I know and maybe I'm completely off.

She really perked up with us after a few minutes. She wasnt jumping all over us or anything, but seemed happy and comfortable with us petting and scratching behind her ears. The kids were petting her at the same time (gently and respectfully) and she seemed to be quite comfortable. The kids were too. But of course I wonder if I was reading more into it, but I think it was a positive experience. She seemed to like us.

I guess I have to think of the worst case scenario (like waterproofmascara and the questions girl in the fire has posed) and really, truly ask myself, am I prepared and willing for worst case? I dont know. And can I really know if I'm not in it? (maybe I need to be in Personal Growth too, lol)

Thanks for giving me things to think about.

[Aeress]

We adopted a dog with pretty sever SA. After doing most of the natural treatments we ended up medicating her. The medication helps some but not all of her issues. She can handle short periods of us being gone (under 4 hours) with no pooping, scratching or destructiveness but 6 hrs, she is a wreck.

What has worked- desensitizing her to our "leaving" sounds
-a sensory/security wrap
-medication
-time
-behavior training

If the dog has other issues and SA, then it can be very overwhelming. We had so many bad habits to break and so much training to do but she is such a sweet girl. She is great with kids and very trainable, still we have a long road ahead o us.
Our vet said it could take a year, with the goal of weaning her off the meds. We are considering getting her a companion after the year.

[Shenjall]

What a journey Karen. I wish you all the best. How long have you had her?

Can I ask you a question? Looking back, what signs did you see that she had SA? (a severe case at that) Or were you made aware of it before you adopted her?

My gut says she doesnt have a severe case of SA, but the timidness does concern me.

[journeymom]

Shenjall, I think at this point you need to go with

- your instinct about the dog's personality

- your clear understanding of how much disruption you are willing to put up with


Do you have good instincts generally? Are you prepared to curtail your freedom and to commit time to her? Are you prepared to patiently and compassionately care for her when she's acting irrational?

We unknowingly adopted a dog with separation anxiety. Our dog came from a Springer Spaniel rescue agency. We'd never heard of separation anxiety, and boy did he have it (he'd been found wandering in a restaurant parking lot). We weren't prepared for it. Fortunately he's never been a chewer. But he dug up the bathroom door and bloodied his paws when I put him in there. Same with the crate. I'd put him in the crate and leave, come back and find he'd been panting and howling and digging (poor guy! ) and the crate was full of drool.

I got some guidance from the vet and similar to the poster above mentioned, I medicated him off and on for about a year, and just was very patient and understanding about his anxieties.

He's a fantastic dog. We love him to bits. We've had him for 9 years now. He doesn't have any behavior issues (aside from peeing in the flower garden, and I suppose if I bothered to work with him I could get him to quit it). The last remaining sign of separation anxiety is that when we get home after leaving him alone he'll be howling so mournfully! He's particularly attached to me, so when dh comes home when I'm not there, the dog doesn't entirely settle down.

Dh says when he gets home the dog has to tell him all about it, "Oh, it's just you. She's not heeeeeeere! She's not heeeeeere!"

[Aeress]

Yes, we knew about her anxiety when we adopted her. In fact, we "fostered" her while we decided if this was going to work. In the end, we decided that her general mood and character out weighed the anxiety, so we kept her.

Britta's SA list-
barks, barks and barks when you leave
frantically runs around looking for you
destructive (scratches, knocks stuff over)
won't leave your side, at all
whines when you shut to door
gets hyper when she knows you are leaving
shakes when she sees you leaving
tries to go out with you
sleeps with us

Now, this is her list from when we first got her. We still see some of this but not nearly as bad as it was. You would never know she had SA, right now, she is sleeping on the couch by herself. She will still follow us, but is learning "go lay down" which means her bed. We can shut any door without her whining. We can leave her in the house, go outside, without her being destructive or whiny.
We went from not being able to leave her for more than 1/2hr to being 4-5 hours alone. We still have some issues with pooping while we are gone, which we believe is related to SA.
Honestly, she is getting better. Yes, it is frustrating when she is clingy, or barking or pooping, but she loves the girls and lets them crawl all over her. Very sweet and she is smart.
Can you do a trial run? We saw her true nature within 2 weeks.

[Shenjall]

Was she displaying that behaviour in her "holding" pen before you started to foster her?

We saw her again today. She seems quite content in her pen. Calm. Its trying to bring her out she's gets quiet and tail tucked under. She wont come to you, but will let you pet her. She reallly does seem to have a sweet nature under that lack of confidence.

Generally, I do have good instincts about things. And I can be pretty honest with myself and my limitations, for the most part anyway.

They do allow trial runs, which is the route we would take if we decide to go ahead.

You've all been very helpful. I thank you for that.

Last question, (okay, its not, who am I kidding, lol) but lets say I go ahead and bring her home. Where would I start?
I would think a comfy crate in a place off to the side but still in her sight of the house.
Letting her be - no crowding, basically let her come out (open crate) when she felt like it and lots of praise when she does?
No expectations except becoming comfy.
Cut back the amount of visitors to allow her time to adjust or would it be better to have visitors to de-sensitize her to different people/sounds?

Still so much to think about it.....

[Nicole915]

-Start with anything that will build her confidence. If she's good at a sit or a shake command, then do that often and praise her profusely.

- Don't make a big deal out of leaving the house, that seems to only verify to them that it is a big deal and something to worry about.

-Exhaust her. Lots of long walks and exercise.

-Give her as many opportunities to do things right as possible, and then celebrate those victories, she will bond to you.

-Make sure to give her attention when she wants it, but not to perpetuate her anxiety... this will be the hardest thing to do. If she's getting anxious, try distracting her and then praising her for choosing something else to do.

-Don't spend 24hours a day at home for the first week. Leave for small amounts of time often.

-Utilize the free behavior services at the shelter, if they have any.


I think you sound like you've got your head screwed on straight, and I hope this dog turns out to be a wonderful life long companion. She's a lucky pup to have you looking out for her.

[karne]

We did, but I have to say first off that we have another dog of the same breed, so I think that impacts the entire experience. Anyway, our new dog would literally not move out from between our legs if he could help it. He cried horribly when we shut the door to use the bathroom. He cried when we went to bed at night. He was afraid of other dogs and would ignore/hide from ours. Afraid to leave my side to chase a ball. In short, he was a bundle of nerves.

What I did was to spend a lot, and I do mean a lot, of very calm time with the dog, walking around the property with him next to me, but I held my ground on personal space. Lots of loving affection, but not rewarding the really attention seeking behaviors. Kept up a reassuring, running dialog when I was out of his site in the house, and then calm affection when I returned. Predictable breaks from the house, gradually working up in time, ie i would leave for 15-20 mins, and then come home.

We did socialization classes, and he started bonding with our other dog, which has turned the whole picture around. Everything feels quite manageable now, but it took time and patience. We are 100% happy to have this dog in our lives. He was a gem inside a lot of anxiety, which was a result of multiple losses, we think.

[Shenjall]

Update:

So, we decided to go ahead. We thought about it and thought she would be good for us; we would be good for her. So we went to go get her and turns out she was adopted hours before we got there.

I cant believe how upset I am. She was never mine, I know this, but it still hurts. I keep telling myself, "everything happens for a reason", but it doesnt help much.

Thank you all for your advice and wisdom.

[phatchristy]

So sorry it didn't work out. I do too agree that everything happens for a reason and I happen to think that the hesitation that you had initially may have been meaningful. Sometimes we emotionally want something so much we put on blinders to potential problems. Or at least I know I've done that in the past!

If you're still searching for a dog, don't give up! There is the right dog out there for you, with a personality that is suited to your lifestyle.