Added an intact boy, and maybe there are "closet" intactivists?

[mi.birthdoula]

We just added another intact baby to Michigan! Our little Rohnin Viper was born last wednesday the 12th. DH was still a little reluctant to leave him intact up until his birth with the argument that it is easier to keep a circ'd boy clean but was okay with respecting my wishes on this topic. Well, now that he is here, and seen him he doesn't want to do anything to hurt him, and also in the last week through first hand experience he has come to realize just how easy it is to keep an intact boy clean. :

On another note, when I was having my section, the anesthesiologist mentioned circ, and I told him we weren't doing that because it was his body, so therefore it would be his choice when he was older, and he patted me on the shoulder and said "Good for you!" He said he wished more people would do the research and realize that it wasn't necessary. Also, the day I was planning on being discharged, the OB who did my section came in and brought it up out of nowhere in a good way though...she said she knew we weren't planning on circ'ing, and she said she was glad because she didn't like to do them, because there's nothing good about chopping up someones body, especially a baby!::: It made me feel so good to know my medical caregivers and I were on the same side, it made my hospital stay a little bit less stressful.
Both of those encounters makes me think...
Maybe there really are more "closet" intactivists in the medical field, and they are just afraid of what their colleagues will say if they actually came out with their beliefs? What do you think?

[fruitful womb]

I am really happy for you!:

On another note, I'm sad too. I just wish HCP wouldn't ask...

A question like that coming from a HCP can make it seem like its an ok thing to do.

sigh.. Couldn't they just hand out intact care info instead?

[mi.birthdoula]

The anesthesiologist never asked if we were doing it, I can't remember exactly how it was brought up, but he made some kind of comment like "when Dr. does the circ" He just assumed that we were doing it, which is pretty sad. I'm also in the boat of wishing they would hand out intact care info sheets too.

On a good note though, this particular hospital wants to have me work for them as a doula as soon as I get my cert, and wants me to come in and do a presentation on something for the L&D and nursery nurses, and I'm planning on presenting something about the intact care of the penis, and about how parents should be more informed on the topic. I have the full support of both the hospital L&D manager, and the IBCLC, on the topic, and was asked by both of them to work with the department, so hopefully I can do something good for the intactivist cause for a lot of uninformed parents in our area. This all came about and was set up while I was in the hospital, so maybe it was meant to be?

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

The anesthesiologist never asked if we were doing it, I can't remember exactly how it was brought up, but he made some kind of comment like "when Dr. does the circ" He just assumed that we were doing it, which is pretty sad. I'm also in the boat of wishing they would hand out intact care info sheets too.

On a good note though, this particular hospital wants to have me work for them as a doula as soon as I get my cert, and wants me to come in and do a presentation on something for the L&D and nursery nurses, and I'm planning on presenting something about the intact care of the penis, and about how parents should be more informed on the topic. I have the full support of both the hospital L&D manager, and the IBCLC, on the topic, and was asked by both of them to work with the department, so hopefully I can do something good for the intactivist cause for a lot of uninformed parents in our area. This all came about and was set up while I was in the hospital, so maybe it was meant to be?

I wish more people like you were in every hospital! Please please post an update when you're in practice! I'd love to know how that goes!

Forgive me, where are my manners! Congratulations on your newest little guy. He is so lucky!

[tutucrazy]

WOOHOO! Congratulations on the babe! I'm so excited for your new venture. You will be in a great position to save boys!

[glongley]

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

On a good note though, this particular hospital wants to have me work for them as a doula as soon as I get my cert, and wants me to come in and do a presentation on something for the L&D and nursery nurses, and I'm planning on presenting something about the intact care of the penis, and about how parents should be more informed on the topic.

Congratulations on your new baby boy! Yes, its sad that health professionals who really are against circumcision still bring up the subject or still do them. They're almost there, but need to take one more step and say no to doing them. I have talked to doctors who are against it but who seem hung up on the angry reactions of parents when told that a doctor will not circumcise their son. I think they may be afraid of losing clients if they commit to stopping doing circumcisions. You might want to write a letter of appreciation to the health care people who gave you positive fuzzies for not circumcising, in which you could also indicate the "next steps" in thinking or action for them.

Re: the intact care class. YES YES YES! I have done this with the nurses at my hospital, and in a recent presentation I did with doctors. Not only is it very necessary to head off misinformation and mishandling of the intact penis, it is a good way to increase people's understanding of the anatomy and functions of the foreskin, without hitting them directly with anti-circ arguments. You also put yourself out there as someone who knows a lot about the intact penis, so hopefully people will come to you at other times with questions, or come out of the woodwork as allies. BTW, I also made sure that my hospital hands out NOCIRC INtact Care pamphlet in ALL parent packets. That way we don't miss any parents of intact sons, and other parents may read it and learn something.

If you like, PM me your regular email address and I will be glad to correspond with you as you develop your intact care presentation. I have Powerpoints and handouts developed.

Gillian

[Quirky]

congratulations on your new baby! i hope you are having a lovely snuggle babymoon. :::

however, i don't think very highly of your doctors. i think far too many doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals are personally opposed to circ but they never do their freakin' JOB of educating parents themselves. to me, they're not intactivists. they're cowards shirking their professional responsibilities. because they want to go along, get along, because they don't want to get off the gravy train or upset their colleagues who don't want to get off the gravy train, whatever.

i mean, if the subject were routine tonsillectomies, do you think they'd talk about "having parents educate themselves" and "they're unnecessary, i hate doing them, but the parents want it so i do it anyway?" no. they would tell parents "there's no reason to do it and i'm not going to do a procedure that's not in your child's best interests."

if health care providers who are personally opposed to circumcision would a) start doing their jobs of education and informed consent and b) simply GROW A PAIR we'd see a heck of a lot fewer circs in this country.

[BlessedMommy2006]

Yay! Congratulations on your baby boy. I'm in Michigan too and it's good to know that my son has company on the intact couch. :

[Fay]

Congratulations on your newborn son, and congratulations on choosing to leave him intact! I'm also in Michigan, and my OB & ped are closet intactivists. I don't know how they counsel parents who are on the fence, but when my OB learned that I left both sons intact, he went off on a monologue about the barbarity of circumcision and said that the practice of genital mutilation should be abolished. He totally made my day.

[So-Called]

Congratulations and welcome to your new son!

I've been wondering about this myself. Since my son was born, I've had people come out of the woodwork to say that they don't like the idea of RIC, or wouldn't do it to their own children, etc. I don't know that I'd classify them as intactivists, but they're certainly not in favor of circ.

The one that surprised me the most was the surgeon we saw when my DS was a few weeks old. He was born with an extremely short lingual frenulum (tongue-tie), and we were having a terrible time with BF'ing to the point that he wasn't gaining weight. After seeing two different doctors, both who were conservative about procedures and who both recommended frenotomy, I made an appointment with a well-respected ENT in the area.

She could tell I was nervous, and I think she thought I was concerned solely with the pain (I was, but also with whether or not we were making the right decision). She asked me if I'd had DS circumcised, and when I said no, she looked a bit surprised and said that she normally explains to parents that the frenotomy isn't nearly as traumatic as the circ, but clearly that didn't apply in my case. I went into my standard spiel about how we didn't want to put our son through a painful procedure that wasn't medically necessary, and she stopped me, smiled gently and said, "Oh, you don't have to explain. I understand - I didn't have my son circumcised either."

You could've knocked me over with a feather. I live in an area where I'm pretty sure the perception is that circ/intact rates are sharply divided by SES, and to have a prominent surgeon say the things she said were pretty shocking (in a good way!). It gives me hope.

[BlessedMommy2006]

Originally Posted by So-Called

You could've knocked me over with a feather. I live in an area where I'm pretty sure the perception is that circ/intact rates are sharply divided by SES, and to have a prominent surgeon say the things she said were pretty shocking (in a good way!). It gives me hope.

What does SES mean?

[My*Scorpio]

socioeconomic status

[So-Called]

Originally Posted by My*Scorpio

socioeconomic status

Yup. Medicaid doesn't pay for RIC here, so the general perception seems to be that only "poor people" don't circumcise - and only because they can't afford to.

[BugMacGee]

Look and you will find several RN's here.

I work with many anti circ medical folks (RN's, neonatologists and Peds)

We have about a 30% circ rate in my area. Really, the only families that do it are the caucasian families of American origin (but they are often also our midwifery patients, so they don't circ either). Our particular region is very diverse with many families coming from Europe, India, Asia for work. They don't circ.

I think it is highly region dependent but we don't need to be closeted here

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Quirky

if health care providers who are personally opposed to circumcision would a) start doing their jobs of education and informed consent and b) simply GROW A PAIR we'd see a heck of a lot fewer circs in this country.

That would mean they would have to put their money where their mouth is...who would pay for the BMW?