Induced births = asking for trouble with breastfeeding?

[MittensKittens]

NAK

I attended a birthday party yesterday, and most of the conversation was about babies, birth and nursing. I live in Serbia, where medicalization of birth is possibly worse than in the US (Is that possible?). Several moms commented they "simply didn't have milk". Subsequently, it turned out that all of them had induced births or planned c-sections, so no labor.

It seems thay every second mother here says they "could not breastfeed", or" had no milk".

Is there any indication that, when babies are born before they are "done cooking", either by induction or s-section, leads to complications with breastfeeding? Just curious, I'd love to get your thoughts/info

[leighann79]

I was induced with three of my four children and have had no trouble breastfeeding any of them. With #1 mymilk came in on day 3-4, #2 it came in on day 5 and #3 it came in before she was 48 hours old.

[aurora_skys]

I think it could more accurately be attirbuted to a lack of perserverance. Because for the first few days most women really dont have much milk to speak of (whether they birthed naturally or not), it could be easy to say "Oh I have no milk" and start giving formula. Especially if the people around you dont value breastfeeding...

[ramama]

DD1 was induced 4 weeks early and I had no problems BFing. In fact, my tiny little baby was 20 lbs by 6 mos. I have heard that planned c-sections may interfere with many aspects of mothering (breastfeeding, bonding, etc.) because the hormonal event that is labor does not occur. But I've just heard it through the grapevine, and don't have any evidence, and am not even sure my position on that (I mean, I'm against planned c-sections in most cases, but not all, but don't know how I feel about it inhibiting BFing. Need more information). I have never heard credible evidence that induction interferes with BFing (although the evidence may be out there).

[elanorh]

It seems I've read somewhere that c/s mothers sometimes take longer for their milk to come in .... this was true for my friend who had c/s - her milk didn't come in until day 4/5. Colostrum 'til then. But the thing is, babies don't 'expect' milk 'til around then anyway ....

It is very easy for even mothers who plan to breastfeed to be undermined in an unsupportive environment. My grandmother checked out of the hospital within 2-3 days of birth (back when they wanted moms to stay for a week), because she was stir crazy, and because she didn't want the nurses giving babies bottles of formula. So if there is pressure about whether there is "enough," then it's very likely that early supplementing begins and the mother's supply is compromised from the beginning.

[sunflowergirll]

Yes! I do believe it's true. I was induced with epi/pit for my first (just for postdates). Huge trouble breastfeeding. Sleepy baby, bad latch. We pumped/breastfed for 2 months months before I was able to get her back to breast.

Second baby was natural HB. Very alert baby, perfect latch. That baby was born to breastfeed!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by aurora_skys

I think it could more accurately be attirbuted to a lack of perserverance. Because for the first few days most women really dont have much milk to speak of (whether they birthed naturally or not), it could be easy to say "Oh I have no milk" and start giving formula. Especially if the people around you dont value breastfeeding...

I think this is more likely the problem. Many woman have no idea that their milk may not come in for up to a week after birth and babies will do just fine on colostrum until it does. Baring health issues that is.

So they think oh no I dont have milk and grab the formula. And when you have healthcare workers saying that your baby will die without milk right this second you feel like you need to do what they say.

[noeonend]

It's probably a combination of both the unsupportive environment, and the interventions into birth. I firmly believe that when interventions are present in the birth, there will be challenges to overcome in the nursing relationship. I researched both breastfeeding and birth extensively after the epidural/pit/vacuum birth of my first that led to a baby that did not latch for the first ten weeks, and was astounded at how important the chain of events during birth is to nursing. My second was a homebirth and although we have had our challenges this time around, none of them have been related to the process of birth and latching.

[SashaBear]

Originally Posted by sunflowergirll

Yes! I do believe it's true. I was induced with epi/pit for my first (just for postdates). Huge trouble breastfeeding. Sleepy baby, bad latch. We pumped/breastfed for 2 months months before I was able to get her back to breast.

Second baby was natural HB. Very alert baby, perfect latch. That baby was born to breastfeed!

Sleepy baby yes! My son would fall asleep the second he hit my bare skin.

Also the gallons of fluid they pump through your IV gives you bigger baby. Baby loses more weight because its mostly water weight and now you have a breastfeeding problem. And the extra water weight on mom makes the breasts larger and harder and makes it more difficult to latch baby on.

[ramama]

I think it's likely that when a woman doesn't trust her body to give birth, she probably won't trust her body to nourish her child either. I think a defeatist attitude towards BFing will ensure that there are problems.

[spughy]

Originally Posted by ramama

I think it's likely that when a woman doesn't trust her body to give birth, she probably won't trust her body to nourish her child either. I think a defeatist attitude towards BFing will ensure that there are problems.

...yeeessss - sort of... in my experience when birth doesn't go as planned YEAH it's a blow to your confidence!!! I know what you're saying, don't get me wrong - but as someone who had to have an epi/pit *during* labour, and who knew, deep in her bones, that there was no other option, hearing that loss of confidence called "defeatist" kinda stings. That having been said, it's a terminology quibble. I think the point is valid. I DID have troubles breastfeeding, and would not have been able to without the amazing support available here. But frankly, I'd rather be sitting here feeling slightly maligned for my "defeatist" attitude, than dead and buried as a childbirth fatality statistc. There is a lot of unalloyed intervention-bashing goes on here, which is probably a necessary counterpoint to the literature coming out of the medical/social mainstream, but it's still a bit annoying because there are those of us who are dedicated to natural birth whenever possible, but who are still grateful for necessary interventions in our own labours.

I think what's important is we recognize that YES, interventions do have an impact on breastfeeding success - and that, btw is supported by medical research - and that women know this and are adequately informed by their birth attendants so they can factor it in, in decision-making. We also need to cultivate more of a "challenge vs. problem" attitude towards this, and advocate for more LC/doula resources to be made available to women who do have interventions during birth, whether by choice or no.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by spughy

...yeeessss - sort of... in my experience when birth doesn't go as planned YEAH it's a blow to your confidence!!! I know what you're saying, don't get me wrong - but as someone who had to have an epi/pit *during* labour, and who knew, deep in her bones, that there was no other option, hearing that loss of confidence called "defeatist" kinda stings. That having been said, it's a terminology quibble. I think the point is valid. I DID have troubles breastfeeding, and would not have been able to without the amazing support available here. But frankly, I'd rather be sitting here feeling slightly maligned for my "defeatist" attitude, than dead and buried as a childbirth fatality statistc. There is a lot of unalloyed intervention-bashing goes on here, which is probably a necessary counterpoint to the literature coming out of the medical/social mainstream, but it's still a bit annoying because there are those of us who are dedicated to natural birth whenever possible, but who are still grateful for necessary interventions in our own labours.

I think what's important is we recognize that YES, interventions do have an impact on breastfeeding success - and that, btw is supported by medical research - and that women know this and are adequately informed by their birth attendants so they can factor it in, in decision-making. We also need to cultivate more of a "challenge vs. problem" attitude towards this, and advocate for more LC/doula resources to be made available to women who do have interventions during birth, whether by choice or no.

I totally see where you're coming from. I should have been more specific. I think that when the women of a culture feel they cannot trust their bodies, that's when the difficulty rises. I didn't mean individual women, per se. When we look back about 50 years, when nearly all hospital births were done under twilight anesthesia, and the "new-fangled" formula products were being pushed on women, women in our culture did not have confidence in their ability to birth and nourish a baby.

[isabchi]

Originally Posted by ramama

I think it's likely that when a woman doesn't trust her body to give birth, she probably won't trust her body to nourish her child either. I think a defeatist attitude towards BFing will ensure that there are problems.

Yes, sadly truth. At least in my own experience. First baby, I don't trust my body, myself, then I had a c/s and baby was mostly formula feeding until I re lactate at two months old. Second baby, HBAC at almost 42 week:. Now, my second baby is 1 yo and my older is 4 yo. and I'm tandem nursing

[KimL]

I was 31 when I was induced at 33 weeks because I couldn't keep my amniotic fluid up while living at above 10,000 feet.n After 3 full days of cervedil and pitocin He was taken via emergency csection (cord doubled around leg and neck) at 33 weeks 2 days. He was then flight-for-lifed to lower altitude and I had to remain at the mountian hospital for 3 days. He received gavaged donor milk until we were united. He weighed 4.3 ounces and my breast while NOT pregnant are 34DDD's.

at 33 weeks my milk came in within 48 hours. He latched perfectly when we finally met one another, 3 days later. Nursing was the only thing that DID work like a charm for me!!

[34me]

DD was induced 2 weeks early because of some physical stuff I was going through. After 24 hours it didn't work so we went home. I went into labor 2 weeks later and had pit for non progression on her due date and we had trouble but I was under an amazing amount of stress/ little support/ lack of knowlege and resources. DS#1 was induced at 42 weeks, wound up with an emergency c-section under general. It absolutely was needed since his heartrate went to 24 at one point and stayed there until he was born. As soon as I was awake enough to bf he was a champion nurser. It was such a change from his sister. DS#2 was kind of planned -ish. Three days before I was due I was done. Really done, not the "I just don't feel like being pregnant schedule me a c-section", done. And I was afraid of my labor because ds#1 was pretty scary. He was also a champ. Milk came in before I went home with both boys.

[shanti1]

I was induced with my first and ended up with a csection. My milk came in on day 3. I tried to vbac w/#2 but had another csection. My milk came in within 24 hours. #3 was a planned csection at 39.5 wks. Milk was in well within 24 hours....although it never went away during my pregnancy...but I was engorged by 24 hours.

At least w/my experience, there's been no correlation between milk and induction or csection.

[Amandamanda]

i was induced with my 17 m/o and she nursed like a pro from the very minute she was born

[Incubator]

I can't say for sure, obviously, I've never seen any research on it.
IME, every woman I know who did not breastfeed (that's all of them, 'cause I only know one that does) claims that she couldn't make enough milk, and a couple state that they just couldn't do it, or couldn't get the hang of it.
That leads me to believe that it's a lack of support/education to blame, not the breasts themselves. I find it hard to believe that 99% of women can't make enough milk, regardless of the outcome of birth.

In my own experience, before I met my husband I got pregnant. I lost the baby and had a D&C at 15 weeks. Even though I never completed the pregnancy and my body didn't get to the "preparing to nurse" stage, my milk came in two days later. The doctor who did the D&C tried to tell me that I didn't have milk, just normal spotting and leakage, but I beg to differ. She wasn't there when it sprayed out all over my boyfriend and, literally, soaked his shirt, top to bottom. I was bewildered, knowing nothing about babies and milk. It took me awhile to figure out what it was and I was flabbergasted that it happened to me, I wasn't even very far along!The pregnancy didn't end in any normal, hormonal way, and I never so much as saw a baby, yet my milk still came in and I could still express a drop or two until three years later when I got pregnant with my son.

Maybe I have super-human boobs or something but that alone tells me that most of the women I know didn't have enough support to really give it a good go.

[MittensKittens]

Thanks for your replies! Obviously noone could make any conclusions based on the experiences of 15 or so moms, but based on your stories, there is no link. I agree that milk is in the head as much as in the boobs . I think it is a tragedy for all those moms and babies who miss out on nursing because they are told there is no milk. The tragedy becomes even bigger when the mom thinks in advance there will be no milk, because it seems to be a pattern that women are falling into.

[MonkeysRUs]

A big part of the problem is certainly psychology and lack of support, but medical interventions definitely DO have an impact on breastfeeding. Induced babies are usually somewhat early or what is called "near-term". These babies often have trouble organizing their suck-swallow-breathe pattern, there is a higher incidence of jaundice when induced with oxytocin, the stronger contractions mean more pressure on baby's cranial nerves, and more need for pain relief, IV fluids lead to edema of the breast after delivery etc. All of these things have a negative impact on early breastfeeding and therefore on milk production.
Drugs given to mom for pain relief certainly have an effect on baby, and early breastfeeding attempts.
Assisted delivery such as forceps, vacuum and C-section can all cause damage/irritation to the babies cranial nerves which can cause problems with breastfeeding.
Suctioning after birth can lead to oral aversion in baby.
Separation from mom (such as after a C-section) leads to plenty of problems as well.
Of course there are many issues in the immediate postpartum period as well. Lack of skilled help, supplementation, nurses taking the baby to the nursery so mom can rest, too much hands on help from nurses so that mom doesn't learn how to latch baby for herself, etc. etc.
Birth and the immediate postpartum period is actually a very critical time for establishing breastfeeding, and interventions during this time period can lead to many problems and often early weaning.