Who should birth the baby?

[escher]

My wife and I are in somewhat endless discussions about which of us should get pregnant first, and we would love some help looking at the situation with fresh eyes. Here are the facts:

We're both in our late twenties.
We're both healthy and have regular menstrual cycles.
We both have the same general profession, so it would be equally easy or hard for us to take time off of work and we both are paid about the same amount.
I'm more interested in general in birth and breastfeeding, and it has been something that I've wanted to do for a long time.
My wife cares a little bit about having a genetic connection to the child, and I don't think I care at all.
We're not interested in using IVF with her eggs in me--too complicated, at least for now.
We're thinking that the non-birth mom will be the stay-at-home mom after the first 4-10 months or so (depending on what time of year the kid is born).
My job would be an easier place to pump than her job.
We plan to have at least two kids, and we're not attached to the same person birthing all of them.
We could use my wife's brother as a donor (if he agreed--we haven't asked), but we worry that might complicate family relationships (and it would mean we would have to choose a new donor if my wife wanted to give birth to the second babe).
My wife is slightly more interested in general in staying home with children.
I tend to like infants slightly more than she does.
My wife is more worried than I am about feeling unconnected or not part of the family if she were not the birth parent.
We're both excited about becoming parents.

Ideas? Thoughts? Other things you think we should consider?

Thank you!!

[simcon]

Hmm... I see that you haven't gotten any responses yet, so here's one!

It sounds like you might want to take turns birthing babies (is that right?), but that you've thought through lots of things. I guess one thing I didn't see on your list was whether or not it would be easier for one or the other of you to take an extended leave and get back into your job after a couple of years of being a sahp, if that's what you're considering, but I'm not sure how much that matters.

My biggest advice would be to stay present as a couple with the process, and continually re-evaluate what's working and whether either of your concerns or desires shift around. It seems like you could grow your family in many ways--why not try one idea on for a few days and see how it sits with you? And then focus on another option for a while and see what comes up?

We had planned on possibly having each of us take a turn, but then jobs and age became a factor as we progressed through our lives, and it looks like I will be the only birthing parent in our family. That said, my partner has no issues about genetic connection or the day-to-day actuality of being a non-bio mom, so I don't think either of us has regrets about how things have gone for us so far.

Good luck with your decisions, and may you have a joyful path in creating your family!

[osker]

Our first inclination for birthing order was that my DW should have the first child and then I would follow. Our thinking at the time (mind you, we've been planning for 10+ years) was that if something were to ever happen to me, would my mother try to take the child from DW, claiming a bio relationship. Now that just seems silly when we think about it as my mother loves DW very much and their relationship has just gotten better and better... but 8-10 years ago, that seemed like a big deal.
Now, what has happened since is that I've been in school for 4 years and am about to take on a difficult, stressful, time-consuming job.. and then an internship, and then a post-doc... so it makes sense for DW to be the first to carry since she has a lovely, stress free, happy job with plenty of flexibility.
It doesn't sound like you guys have a clear cut answer yet, but neither did we until we decided!
One question I thought of as I was reading your post...
Could you do a 3/2 split for at home care (i.e. one of you home three days a week, the other 2, switching bi-weekly), or would you have to do one person home, the other at work?
Oh, and what about both breast feeding, that way your DP would feel more connected if you were the bio parent?
It seemed from the general tone of your post that you were leaning toward you carrying and her being the SAHM... sometimes when you write something out your thoughts become more clear... maybe that's the case here?
you might check out firsttimesecondtime.blogspot.com. They talk a lot about being bio and non-bio moms and switching places.
Good Luck!

[escher]

Thank you for your great responses. It's helpful to remember that we aren't the only people in the world who have to make this decision--the lesbian couples we know in real life who are considering children seem to have clear reasons for definitely choosing one partner to birth, so it is nice to hear from other people who have had to struggle with the decision.

I don't know if we'll end up wanting to take turns birthing babies, but that is certainly an option--we're both curious to see how we feel after the first one is born. That possibility is one of the reasons that I would be reluctant to use my wife's brother as a donor if I were to give birth even though that would give a genetic connection to my wife, since it seems like if we go with known donors it would be neat if we could use the same one twice.

Thanks for bringing up the idea of both of us breast-feeding--I had forgotten about that as an option, and I can see that working well for us.

I think we are slightly leaning towards me birthing and her being the sahm, but I'm trying to figure out if that is a foolish decision in terms of her feeling connected and like a full parent to the kid.

Probably in the long run this doesn't matter very much, and we'll both adore whatever kids we have, right?

But right now it feels like a big decision!

[osker]

It does feel like a huge decision! At least it's something you can control, you know?
Check out that blog I mentioned. That's exactly what they did with their first and I think it helped them to feel connected and bonded.

[lyn_ftst]

Lyn here from firsttimesecondtime (thanks for the shout out osker!).

Escher -- you are really smart to think about this now. I know you said that maybe it doesn't really matter, but honestly, I think it really can, depending on the structure you'd like to have for your family down the line. This choice is a place where we have options that a straight family doesn't, and it is possible to leverage that. I'm going to assume you are both perfectly fertile in what follows (which is a HUGE assumption).

We made a lot of our decisions on accident, but they turned out to be really good ones, which we can see clearly now. In our case, we both wanted very much to birth a child, but my wife was 6 1/2 years older and was mid-30s, so she got dibs on birthing our first (our daughter, now three). In the plan from the beginning, though, was that I would carry our second (which actually worked, our son, now 3 months).

Carrying, birthing and nursing a baby is hard. But don't underestimate how hard it is to be a non-bio-mom in this context. There is little or no social support, and it is really confusing to try to find your footing as a parent when there are no (or very few) maps out there (and frankly, much of what is available tells you to step aside, and be more of a back-up mom or a proto-dad -- which would NOT have worked for us). It can be hard to even figure out what is so hard about it! Because of this, it ended up being great that I was "non-bio" first, because I am extremely communicative and good at noticing and figuring out what is bothering me. This ended up being a big perk, because we were able to work through lots of our possible problems before our daughter even arrived, problems we wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't seen them and spoken up. So, does one of you have a particular knack for noticing and communicating hard stuff? If so, she might be a good candidate for non-bio-mom-hood on the first go. More about this here:
http://firsttimesecondtime.blogspot....nowing-it.html

I also often suggest that folks seriously consider having whoever wants a child *less* and/or cares *less* about getting pregnant/birthing get pregnant first (though I can't say anyone ever listens to me!). Paradoxically, it can be good to have the more motivated party in the non-bio role. Carrying, birthing and nursing an infant will pull whoever is pregnant into a caretaking role, whether she is really into it or not. But a non-bio-mom who wants a strong relationship with her kid(s) needs to really get in there. She needs to be really excited to take care of her baby and spend the time building the relationship, excited enough to do it without much (if any) social support. In our case, this ended up sort of also being true, because I am very much a "baby" person. My wife is less so, and it has been a little hard for her with our second, because she has to, as she says "choose" to care for him. It doesn't happen automatically.

It can also be good to consider economics, and it can be good for the parent with *more* economic power (i.e. who earns more or has more earning potential down the line) to birth, or birth first. In this case, then, there is a biological pull for one mom towards caretaking, and an economic pull for the other (if/when a career sacrifice needs to be made to prioritize caretaking, it is more likely to be made by the parent with less economic resources). Again, this was true for us, completely by accident, but ended up really helping us balance out our parental roles and come to a good place as a family. I wrote more about this here: http://firsttimesecondtime.blogspot....nowing-it.html

Also, your idea to have one mom birth and the other home is a good one. There is nothing better than time with your kid to build a solid relationship, and that time is particularly important for a non-birthing parent (dads too). We think it's important enough that my wife is actually taking *more* leave than I am to be with our second during his first year. Similarly, I did a bit more care for our daughter her first year (though it was by "accident", due to the economic pressures mentioned above).

Two more things:

1) I highly recommend each taking a "turn" birthing as it were, but it is not without emotional hurdles of all sorts. IF this is part of the plan, I'd encourage you to think hard about setting up plans for number two. I.e. make sure you both have a strong commitment to making it happen and consider making sure you have sperm from the same donor available for the second (either a commitment from the KD -- assuming it's not the brother -- or vials on ice). It is amazing the number of pressures that conspire to make that second pregnancy disappear, so if it's important to whichever of you doesn't carry the first, do hash out a plan ahead of time. More about this here:
http://firsttimesecondtime.blogspot....witcheroo.html

2) We are both nursing our second, and I see the suggestion thrown around quite commonly, but as far as I can tell, we're the only family with much of an online presence who has actually done it. (Please! MDC prove me wrong! We would LOVE to find another two-mom family in which one mom birthed and the second induced lactation for nutritive nursing--i.e. not a two-mom adoptive family, and not one where one mom was still nursing a toddler and just kept going (Hi Lex!). PM me if you are in one or know of one!). There's a good reason for that. It is extremely hard. We've detailed the experience on our blog, but long story short, there are very few families I would suggest it to, and though we're enjoying it now, the experience has erased any regrets I may have had about not inducing lactation for our first. Really, as a first time parent, it would have been extremely hard. It's extremely hard to get full supply, or even enough supply for a reasonable feeding or two, and there is your wife, with milk flowing like crazy. It can put you into kind of unfortunate competition, and take time *away* from spending time with the baby for the non-bio-mom (because she's so busy taking a million herbs and pumping desperately). If anyone asked me (not that you did!), I'd strongly suggest comfort nursing and expressed BM bottles for a non-bio-mom on the first go over an induction protocol. For a second child in the case of a "uterus switch", I'd say it's only a good idea of the parent carrying the child is very comfortable with. This was true for us, and seriously, if I were not extremely supportive of Gail's nursing our son, I could have thwarted her in about a million ways without even knowing it very very easily.

Good luck!

Lyn

[escher]

Thanks for your response, Lyn (and your suggestion to check out her blog, Osker!)--I really appreciate hearing about your experience and suggestions.

Neither of us has tried to get pregnant, so right now we're assuming that we are equally likely to be fertile. That could obviously be completely incorrect--in which case whatever decision we make now may become irrelevant.

I can definitely see how it could make sense to have the partner who is less excited about pregnancy and birth to be the first to carry the child, especially since it feels like the non-bio role will in many ways be harder to negotiate than the bio role. At the same time, my wife isn't sure if she ever especially wants to get pregnant, and I would love to go through pregnancy and birth.

I feel like if we were just deciding who should have the experience of pregnancy, birth, and breast-feeding, I would be the logical choice. But I know the goal here is a happy family during and after the pregnancy/birth/breastfeeding time, and that's where I think it gets more confusing about who should do what.

[megincl]

In our house, the decision was rather simple, but we did a number of things surrounding the decision that I think might help. My wife always wanted to be pregnant. Presented with the opportunity to have kids and not be pregnant, I was/am thrilled. So, she carried #1 and will carry #2, whenever that babe decides to stick around. If for some reason later in life I want to be pregnant (Lex's wife Lena being an example of folks changing their mind after being certain they didn't want to be! ), then we'll have three kids. That's not the plan, but I think it would be fine (and can occasionally imagine it happening now!).

I'm a very good caretaker, of little ones and big ones, so I annointed myself the pregnancy manager. I dealt with the logistics with our donor, figured out the ins and outs of doing insems, have dealt with all the docs around infertility this time around, etc. And I got to do tons to take care of my wife when our son was new -- being sure she was fed and hydrated being top on the list!

We also set things up so that after 5 months at home (mostly summer break, so we were both home), my wife went back to work and I did most of the caretaking of our son. That gave me the chance to feel like I played a key role in his life. It was hard, because for years he still preferred my wife to me (breastfeeding plus something intangible, I think), but I knew, at least, that I was an important person in his life and that he depended on me, in some ways, more than on her. While this was hard, I think it set up a really strong relationship between me and my son, and now that things have evened out our bond is super strong and I don't at all feel like I play second fiddle to my wife.

So, while the decision about who would birth was easy, we were much more thoughtful and careful about everything after birth and creating a good balance for ourselves during that time. I know that, had my wife stayed home and I been away most of the time, I would have had a hard time feeling I played an important role in my son's life in those early years. With #2, she might stay home for a bit. And I'll be fine with it because I already feel firm and confident in my role and because it's truly what _might_ work best for our family.

Good luck deciding!

megin

[escher]

Megin--Thanks for putting in your perspective. It's good to see that sometimes when one person wants to give birth and the other doesn't, it might work to go with what each person prefers.

Half the challenge seems to be just figuring out what we each most want. I think I don't care about staying home with kids, but will I change my mind? My wife doesn't currently want to be pregnant, but will she regret that once the kid is born?

In some ways those aren't permanent decisions--the non-birth mom from the first kid could birth the second one, and we could switch who was a sahm. But Lyn's point that it does make a different makes sense to me, and I don't want to let my desire to be pregnant push us towards a decision that isn't the best in the long run.

[lexbeach]

For us it was not a difficult decision because I wanted desperately to be pregnant, and my wife had zero desire (though she did think that she might someday want to be pregnant). I ended up gestating the first two pregnancies, and then my wife surprised us both and decided that she wanted to gestate the third pregnancy.

The only complicating issue for us has been that during our first 6+ years as parents, I was the sole Stay-At-Home, breastfeeding mom (gradually decreasing in hire-ability) while dw was working full-time and advancing in her career. In order for me to get a decent job at this point, I would likely need to go back to school first and get my master's degree. Thus, we weren't in a position to just switch roles entirely. I also didn't feel ready to go back to working full-time. Luckily it all worked out in the end, dw and I are both working part-time this year, a solution that feels good to both of us.

Becoming the non-gestational parent has been difficult in ways that I didn't anticipate (I think it is harder to be the NGP second because you know more about what you are missing out on; dw never felt "left-out," when she was the NGP, but I really struggled in the first few weeks after our fourth son's birth), it took me longer than I thought it would to feel like our fourth baby was really MINE, and I still don't feel as connected to him as I did to our other babies at this age (though I love him desperately and feel like we've found a wonderful rhythm together), though I'm certain that will come eventually. At the same time, there have been benefits to dw experiencing the gestational side of pregnancy that I also didn't anticipate. Previously, dw was never particularly interested in parenting "issues." She never read a single parenting book, and just wanted me to make all of the big decisions and then tell her what WE were going to do. Since getting pregnant, though, her interest in all things mothering has increased dramatically. I feel like we are much more equally invested in parenting now, which is SO wonderful. If I had known that this would be a side-effect of her getting pregnant, I would have insisted on it happening much sooner (as if I could have ).

Gotta go, baby waking up!

Lex

[indigoscot]

great thread! in our situation, we first discussed dp having all the children. neither of us had that all-encompassing "i must be the one who carries the babies" urge. our reasoning was both age-related and economic. i'm 7 years older than her and the primary breadwinner in an occupation that will always keep my salary higher than hers. and we planned on her being a sahm.

then my company opened a daycare in the building where i work. we had more discussions and dp expressed a desire for a "curly-headed baby" that looked like me. we came to the decision that i would carry the first baby. our son turned 2 earlier this month and he has curls and is a complete mini-me. having gone through pregnancy and birth i am SO grateful that i was able to do that - i was extremely lucky - no m/s and no complications. and dp has an amazing bond with our son. she didn't attempt to induce lactation, although we did discuss it somewhat. the daycare situation turned out to be great, and i was able to nurse until he was 15 months - he self-weaned.

now dp is pregnant with our second baby. she has had TERRIBLE m/s. we're almost 20 weeks and she threw up last night. being NGP is so different AND having a toddler at the same time even more so. with dp being so sick, i've had to run the house...not that i mind that of course, it just took a mind-shift for me and a new routine. it was exhausting to begin with though. and also hard to relate to her since i had no m/s at all. i am going to attempt relactation, so we'll see how that goes.

we have always co-parented - discussing everything from making baby food, to toys and banning tv! it was important to both of us to do this. all in all, it has been a wonderful experience for us thus far.

i think it's great you are discussing everything up front. be aware though that whoever goes first MAY feel the need to do it again. i will admit to feeling a little sad that my turn was over - since i'm pushing 40 and would have to take heparin shots for a future pregnancy we decided dp would have the 3rd baby too.

good luck to you!
g

[erthe_mama]

Originally Posted by lyn_ftst

Lyn here from firsttimesecondtime (thanks for the shout out osker!).
If anyone asked me (not that you did!), I'd strongly suggest comfort nursing and expressed BM bottles for a non-bio-mom on the first go over an induction protocol.

There's always nursing with a Supplemental Nursing System as well which is a heck of a lot easier than pumping your boobs off (or so I hear).
http://www.lact-aid.com/

[escher]

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and ideas. It is incredibly helpful to hear from other people who have had to make this decision--and it is good to see that there seem to be a lot of ways that it can work out well.

We're hoping to start TTC next spring, so hopefully we can make a definite decision before then!

[lyn_ftst]

Originally Posted by erthe_mama

There's always nursing with a Supplemental Nursing System as well which is a heck of a lot easier than pumping your boobs off (or so I hear).
http://www.lact-aid.com/

Yep, and I think this can be a great option (possibly preferable to an induction protocol), though my wife found it quite cumbersome and ultimately not quite worth the effort for the feedings where she knew she wouldn't have enough milk for our son. It was somewhat useful at first, but now she prefers to skip it, and just go with bottles until she has enough milk for a full feeding. Her supply seems pretty stable about about 2-4 feedings per day.

She's sitting here, so I just asked her if she'd want to use a supplemental nurser even if she wasn't producing any milk, and she says that "Yes, it would be nice for maybe a once a day thing, but I don't think I'd want to use it for every feeding. It's just too cumbersome." (for the record, she was using the SNS, and I think some people like lact-aid better)

Lex -- I think whether or not it's "easier" or "harder" to be NGP first/second has a lot to do with your personality and, actually, the personalities of everyone in the family (as well as division of labor and a whole lot of other stuff). I just asked Gail (again, sitting right here, how convenient!) if she shared your concerns about bonding, and she says she didn't because she's seen things work out great for me and our first, so she actually headed in with much more confidence on that front than I had. What she *did* struggle with, and what was most definitely harder for her the second time, was just the sheer amount of work that needed to be done with a kid already in the picture (and I'm sure this was magnified further for you with three "big" ones to keep up with). I also totally agree about it being great to have both birthed, and both not birthed. We both have a lot more empathy for each other, and we already had quite a bit.

So interesting to read the other thoughts here!

[lexbeach]

Originally Posted by lyn_ftst

She's sitting here, so I just asked her if she'd want to use a supplemental nurser even if she wasn't producing any milk, and she says that "Yes, it would be nice for maybe a once a day thing, but I don't think I'd want to use it for every feeding. It's just too cumbersome." (for the record, she was using the SNS, and I think some people like lact-aid better).

(bolding mine) because I think nearly everyone likes the lact-aid better (the SNS is easier to clean, the lact-aid is much, much easier to use), and that could be a significant factor in someone's feelings about using an at-the-breast-supplementer.

Originally Posted by lyn_ftst

Lex -- I think whether or not it's "easier" or "harder" to be NGP first/second has a lot to do with your personality and, actually, the personalities of everyone in the family (as well as division of labor and a whole lot of other stuff). I just asked Gail (again, sitting right here, how convenient!) if she shared your concerns about bonding, and she says she didn't because she's seen things work out great for me and our first, so she actually headed in with much more confidence on that front than I had. What she *did* struggle with, and what was most definitely harder for her the second time, was just the sheer amount of work that needed to be done with a kid already in the picture (and I'm sure this was magnified further for you with three "big" ones to keep up with). I also totally agree about it being great to have both birthed, and both not birthed. We both have a lot more empathy for each other, and we already had quite a bit.

Yes, I agree completely that whether or not it's easier or harder to go first or second will depend on individual family dynamics/personalities/goals of both parents. But just to clarify, I did not have any concerns about bonding ahead of the birth, or ever really (I've always felt confident that it would happen, and my wife's experience as NGP did help to boost my confidence in that regard), though I did struggle once our baby was here. Having to be in charge of our older kids certainly was a big part of that (whereas when dw was the NGP, the first time around, there was no reason why she couldn't spend all day in bed with me and the babies). My wife says that it might be harder for her to be a NGP now (were we to conceive another baby in my womb) because she just has a different appreciation for what it is to grow, and birth, and be the primary breastfeeder of a baby, and what she missed out on with our first three kids.

Lex