can baby be circumsized if mom says no? - Page 2

[AlwaysByMySide]

If you are really really concerned, along with the other suggestions already posted, I would take every diaper that is in that room, and write on them in Sharpie, "DO NOT CIRCUMCIZE."

Keep in mind that if your husband takes your child to any ped visits and you aren't there, as the child's parent, he does have the authority to sign for a circumcision.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide

If you are really really concerned, along with the other suggestions already posted, I would take every diaper that is in that room, and write on them in Sharpie, "DO NOT CIRCUMCIZE."

just a little correction: DO NOT CIRCUMCISE

[Storm Bride]

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to comment on the "looking like daddy" thing. My ex and dh are both circ'd. (I'm 41, and have never seen an adult male penis irl that wasn't circ'd.) DS1 and ds2 are both intact. Both boys saw their dads naked on many occasions. Neither one of them ever commented on daddy's penis looking different, except that ds1 said something, once, about all daddy's hair. The penis of an adult man doesn't look anything like the penis of an infant or small boy, no matter what the circ status of either of them may be.

I also really don't get the "you don't want to get circ'd later" thing. That makes no sense to me at all. Why on earth would anyone think it's better to do that when 1) the person being circ'd has absolutely no understanding of what's causing all that pain, and 2) the foreskin is still fused to the glans? There's obviously no way for me to know for sure (maybe if they did brain scans during circs?), but I'd think the pain for a newborn would be considerably worse, even aside from the anesthesia issue.

[AlwaysByMySide]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

just a little correction: DO NOT CIRCUMCISE

Duh, you'd think if I can spell circumcision correctly, I could also spell circumcise correctly.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

(maybe if they did brain scans during circs?), but I'd think the pain for a newborn would be considerably worse, even aside from the anesthesia issue.

It has been done and it is horrible and the research was stopped and covered up:

http://www.stopinfantcircumcision.org/BrainVisualizationArticle.htm

[Amandala]

Tell your husband you won't even consider discussing it with him until he's watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQqOEylGW7k

and at least half of this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ient=firefox-a

[lalaland42]

:

[ElliesMomma]

update

i called the hospital today and found out that it is *my* signature that's required to do the circumcision. i explained that i do *not* want it, and my husband might want it, but i don't think he will go around me to get it. will our son be protected from having it done? what is the policy? she said the mother's signature is required on all the procedures to be done. this set my mind at ease a little.

DH and i discussed/argued about this a little today. it was not a pleasant conversation. i told him that i am dead set against it, and will not sign the consent for it. i tried to explain some of my reasons... but he wants to talk to a *doctor* and has *no respect* for any of my research b/c it comes from "the internet". (he is 59 and not exactly internet savvy... plus he has had two sons -- now adults -- from his previous marriage... whatever choices he/his ex wife made was 30 year ago...) i told him let's ask the doctor(s) if it is "medically necessary" for our newborn to be circumcised. he said however i want to word it is fine. i'm pretty confident that the answer is going to be that it is not "medically necessary" and if for some reason one of the doctors he asks comes back with various reasoning that could be construed as endorsement for circumcision, i think i know enough to question the doctor intelligently on the spot re: why it is *necessary* to circumcise them as *newborns* versus later in life, if/when any "trouble" would arise.

to me, the fact that they can't give general anaestesia (sp) to babies and use a "topical" for this major (gruesome) procedure is compelling. and especially as the foreskin is so attached in a newborn, versus retractable in an older child/adult -- that would be the time to cut it, if/when a "problem" arised, versus pre-emptively-- when doing so only because of the convenience that newborn babies can't talk and "they cry about everything anyway" (which is what my husband actually rationalized tonight).

but i think i made some progress in so far as my husband said that since i'm the mother, what i say goes... and of course he was not happy about this, and feels that his viewpoint is not respected, and asked why i even bring it up when my mind is already made up.

but we agreed to stop discussing until we talk with some of the doctors we see for my OB care. i'll let you guys know how it goes on friday...

thanks again for your support and suggestions. he did not see the youtube video, and i didn't either frankly. my husband said he doesn't want to see or read stuff off the internet, as "obviously they are presenting the worst case scenarios" -- and as for me, i've looked at some pictures and it was disturbing enough for me. i started to look at a video and had to click it off for myself. i'm not the kind of person who needs reminding that it is gruesome. and unnecessary.

my mind is made up.

[Night_Nurse]

If the doctor does recommend it, ask him/her if they perform it for free? If it's here in the US, no, they don't do it for free, they charge. If the doctor makes money from the circ, then he/she has a financial incentive to do them. Please ask the doctor about how much he profits from circs if he recommends them.
Seriously.

[Oubliette8]

My public library has some material that is anticirc. (of course, they also have Edgar Schoens book, ugh) Does he like print material better? You might try there. I would just search the card catalog under circumcision. Also, check the baby books and see if you can't find some that are anticirc. Usually its easy to find in the index of baby books. Also look up "The Medicalization of Every Day Life" by Thomas Szasz. It has a chapter on circumcision that, while it doesn't condemn circ outright is rather against the procedure.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma

but we agreed to stop discussing until we talk with some of the doctors we see for my OB care. i'll let you guys know how it goes on friday...
my mind is made up.

Quick question...why on earth would an OB's opinion matter. They deal with female body parts. What do they know about intact male babies or adults?

[ElliesMomma]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Quick question...why on earth would an OB's opinion matter. They deal with female body parts. What do they know about intact male babies or adults?

true that. but we are dealing with an irrational man right now, and he wants a "doctor's opinion" on whether it is "medically necessary." i have a feeling this is going to come out right in the end. i also googled "is circumcision medically necessary" and got three decent articles that cite the American Academy of Family Physicians and the American Academy of Pediatrics and explicitly state that it is "not medically necessary." i saved the links to my email address and when i get to the library (perhaps later today), i'm going to print the articles. they also state that "circumcision is painful for babies." the articles are good b/c they do acknowledge the "medical" reasons people sometimes do the procedures, and the only one that comes out slightly positive is for UTIs, and even in that case, it's only a 1 percent advantage -- thus not "medically necessary."

here are the links i'm going to use:

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdo...ctive/042.html

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/lab...cumcision.html

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/c...cumcision.html

we're going to talk to the OBs b/c that's who (doctor-wise) that we are seeing these days... and i'm seeing a lot of them. frankly i'm more comfortable for some reason than asking a pediatrician at this point. we still need to find a good ped. our daughter's pediatricians seem a little... conventional.

still confident i can win this one.

[AlwaysByMySide]

As far as medically necessary....in Europe and developed countries on other continents, circumcision is the exception as opposed to the rule.

If he needs a doctor's opinion, he can call our pediatrician. I'll even give you his phone number. He's from Poland, and told me, (when I answered his question that no, I had no intentions of circumcising my son) that he was not circumcised, and most men in the WORLD aren't. It is, for the most part, completely unneccessary. A foreskin is not a birth defect.

Gee, guess doctors in other countries must be stupid.

In our state, most insurances are moving to classifying circumcision as plastic surgery, and no longer cover it. Might also want to check into that.

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by JessicaTX

I've never actually heard of a boy asking that question, but if it comes up, it's not like saying "Your daddy is circumsized, you aren't." is a hard thing to say.

Originally Posted by liseux

Also, Ask him if he can picture his own Dad's penis and of he cares at all about whether his looks like it

Exactly.

When they WOULD be interested in that stuff (ages 5-9 or whatever), they're going to notice the obvious stuff...bigger arms, legs, etc.

When the child learns about circumcision, he'll be grossed out at the thought of his dad's penis.

This whole "circ so it looks like dad" is one of the biggest piles of bullhonkey ever.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Would it be possible for you to talk to the dr first and get a feel before you bring in your dh and the dr goes on and on about how great circ is and all the infections he/she has seen due to not circing?

It would really put you in a bad spot if that happened.

[becca_howell]

When I had DS, I had to sign refusal of consent for vit K and erythromycin ointment, and there was an "other" box on the page, so I added Hep B and circumcision to it. DS was with us (thankfully we were in a hospital that let you do everything in the room) the whole time, and DH was on board. GL!

[ElliesMomma]

another update

today i printed out the articles from respected medical associations (American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics and American Academy of Family Physicians) for my husband, and he is starting to read through them. the information i found is medically sound, and not just opinions or emotions, which is what he wanted. if he wants to ask the doctors he sees with me tomorrow, it's fine with me. the articles state that circumcision is not medically necessary.

also today i saw my midwife, told her that i definitely do not want our son circumcised, and that my husband still needs some convincing in that regard. she said it's the OBs who perform the procedure at our hospital, and that i should make sure to not sign the permission for the procedure. also she marked my file "do not circumcise" and said that it will not be done. she said *i* am their patient. so, while it may be technically possible for my husband to go around me by taking our son elsewhere to be circumcised later, it will not be happening at our hospital after his birth.

nevertheless, i know from reading here that accidents do happen, so i will be vigilant about keeping him in the room with me the entire time, even for baths and anything else he needs.

but i'm resting a little easier now that my file is marked "do not circumcise." also i told my doula that i'm having this disagreement with my husband that i did not anticipate, and asked her to help me make sure of what forms i'm signing when they are shoving them in my face during labor. also i spoke with my mom, who will be around, taking care of our daughter, when i'm having the baby (and afterwards too for the duration of our hospital stay), told her about where i'm at, (i.e., i'm definitely not circumcising him, and DH is needing to get educated about how it is cosmetic, not a medically needed surgery), and asked her to help watch out for him (i.e. if for some reason i'm incapacitated, and the nurses take him out of the room, to watch to make sure he's not getting circumcised without my permission).

[MommyKelly]

Here in Arizona it is not deemed medically necessary, and most insurance will not cover it. With my 1st ds now alost 16, he was a preemie, and the Dr refused to do it saying the trauma could severly harm him. I new nothing about it and thought thats just what you did to little boys. Then I heard that, and though NO WAY will I ever do that to my sons. We refused with next ds who is 8 now, and the hospital didnt make any kind of deal out of it. The nurse told us she sees more intact boys, then cut ones lately.

My husband is not intact, and his family is Jewish. I guess he had quite the party when they cut him. LOL They were not happy when they found out were not following that tradition.

[ElliesMomma]

update: our baby is here!

he was born very early tuesday morning. he is perfect and still intact!

made it through the hospital stay. had a number of nurses keep asking if we were going to circumcise... at one point i complained to someone about having to keep saying no. (shouldn't one "no" be enough?)

i kept DS in my room 24/7 and got up in the middle of the night to walk to the nursery when they needed overnight weighs, etc.

we survived!

ps: the ped. (who is foreskin friendly) pointed out that his is pretty loose. does anyone know what that means?

[Fyrestorm]

YAY! Congrats on your healthy, happy, whole baby boy!

No, one time should not even have to happen...it's a cosmetic procedure and my understanding is that it's unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery. I'm sorry you had to deal with that and I would follow up your complaint with a letter chastising them for the solicitation!