Do you vaccinate? - Page 2

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by carriebft

depends on the vaccine and how deep you look. If you just look at the package inserts, then they all show titres. If you look at clincicaltrials.gov and on google scholar you can find higher phase and bigger studies that are observational and look to see, for example, pertussis numbers in the group given singles v the group given the larger combo.

Titers are considered to be fairly unreliable, correct? That's what I've heard, anyway. I had my daughter's titers run on several diseases, including one that she was "fully vaccinated" for, and she wasn't "immune enough" to anything, according to her pediatrician. His explanation for the low immunity to the disease she was fully vaxed for is that titers are not a reliable method to confirm immunity. ??? (I was left wondering why I just paid a thousand dollars for the testing.)

And these observational studies would be dependent on each subject's individual exposure, which is unpredictable and impossible to confirm (in kids who don't obviously contract the disease.) Sure, you can watch who develops symptoms and who doesn't, but lack of symptoms does not confirm exposure or lack of exposure. (Gosh, I hope that made sense.)

I just don't see how anything more than weak conclusions or educated guesses can be drawn from these types of studies. To me, the only way to study and confirm vaccine efficacy would be to vaccinate, then purposely expose the subjects to the disease. Unethical, of course, but without it we're not relying on accurate, complete information. And the only way to confirm vaccine safety is to perform a long-term study comparing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated...an important study yet to be done.

[carriebft]

IMO, there are problems with every kind of study, which is why I look at all different kinds and weigh lots of different evidence. You can't just stick with one thing.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Don't worry...if you had vaccinated for pertussis your children most likely would have been misdiagnosed with bronchitis. I'm a little surprised that your doctor said some vax'ed kids have come down with WC, because I think doctors are reluctant to test for WC if the child has been vaccinated.

WC is not fun, but is treatable in otherwise healthy children.

i think this is why it is important not to make generalizations. i've heard this before but the ped i asked about this told me that vaxed kids still get pertussis. we've never had it but i wouldn't feel comfortable saying that hardly any doctors will admit this, mine certainly did, and so did the poster's.

[caro113]

Originally Posted by emma1325

To those who said they would never, ever vaccinate (quite a few, I noticed,) how do you feel about the rabies vaccine in the case that you or a family member were potentially (or probably) exposed to rabies?

At this point, from what I've learned, the rabies vaccine is one that I'm so glad we have and I would use it if I felt the risk of rabies was there.

Also, what about tetanus immunoglobulin? I know it isn't really a vaccine, but it's along the same lines. Would you consider it if your child was at risk for tetanus? (I'm thinking I would.)

I picked the second option in the poll. And sorry I forgot to put an "other" option...I honestly thought I covered just about every possible answer!!! lol

I do not and will not ever vaccinate. In fact, as soon as I was old enough, I refused the vaccinations my mother was having them give me. I think I was around 13.

Rabies? I'm honestly not sure yet. I just thought about it recently and I haven't researched it enough to get a concrete answer. I'm glad you brought it up though. Maybe someone else on here can give you a better answer and me some better research

And Tetanus? The chances of getting tetanus are extremely low. And even if one gets it, the symptoms are usually mild. I'm honestly not terribly concerned with it.

[momo7]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

i know this is off-topic but the vaxed kids that get it are more likely to have a mild case of it.

also, i totally don't think you are wrong in thinking that kids sick with it should stay home. the only problem is that it lasts a really long time so it's be hard for them to stay home until it's over. i'm not sure how long it's contagious for but i know that the symptoms can last over a month.

It's treatable with antibiotics....my daughter had a nose swab done yesterday for it.. and it takes three days to get test results back. The pediatrician said that the "quarantine" for those who are treating it is 5 days, for those people who choose not to treat it and let the disease run its course, the quarantine is 21 days.

If her tests come back positive then the whole family will be treated for it. Which is fine...I have a two month old infant that I wil be terribly worried for if she gets it.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by momo7

It's treatable with antibiotics....my daughter had a nose swab done yesterday for it.. and it takes three days to get test results back. The pediatrician said that the "quarantine" for those who are treating it is 5 days, for those people who choose not to treat it and let the disease run its course, the quarantine is 21 days.

If her tests come back positive then the whole family will be treated for it. Which is fine...I have a two month old infant that I wil be terribly worried for if she gets it.

cool! thanks, i didn't know about the length of the quarantine period. good info to file away in the pertussis section of my brain

[AllyRae]

We vaccinate very very selectively, very very delayed, and our choice of vaccine and timing varies with each of our children. They've all had a different schedule, gotten different vaxes, and have a different reason for their schedule.

[Astrogirl]

There was no option for how I feel.

I did vaccinate, selectively and delayed. To some degree, it was Dr. Sears schedule, but not completely. Obviously I didnt chose any of the "questionable" vaxes - Hep B, Chicken Pox, Flu, etc.

The only one that thoroughly confused me was the MMR. Then, when my daughter turned 4, I thought "well, whats the harm" and got it for her. She ended up being rushed to ER from the Doctors office to the Children's hospital and nearly died. (I had a thread here about it).

So thats it. No more vaxes for us. I'm done. I'm not sure what i would do for future children, but thats it for my current children.

[SoCaliMommy]

I voted No I don't vax

but my daughter was pretty much vaxed on schedule until 3yrs old

my son had vax's up til his 4month well baby check and nothing at his 6month and nothing since and he's now 3yrs and has hardly been sick.

[BlueStateMama]

I do delayed and selected vaccines (although I have chosen most of them), and believe I've made an educated and informed choice for my children. Is there a big pharma revenue push? Yeah, I think pharm reps are paid to sell their products. But I don't believe all docs are evil puppets of the reps.

I have a great relationship with my ped, also a dad, and we've had great discussions about the topic, pros/cons of each vaccine and timing, etc, since my children were born.

We haven't had an issue with reactions (a very real issue, albeit for a small percentage of children, but a scary and serious one for those impacted.)

I see their primary immunity as coming from my extended breastfeeding, and then good nutrition and appropriate supplements, plus good hygeine, but as for things like polio, we're just one generation out from a very scary disease that killed, and crippled a lot of people. I'm not willing to go back there.

But, I think there's a lot of room for variance in opinion on this one. I understand and respect the differences on this one - it can be a scary issue as a parent - vaxing or not - and everyone has to weigh out the information based on their own value system, feelings about conventional medicine in general, etc.

OTOH, I'm not a fan of the HPV vax being encouraged so much - 5 years to me does not a long study make - that's my understanding of it, anyways. The thought of something in use for such a short period of time ever becoming mandatory makes me uncomfortable and too much "vax d'jour-ish" - things like polio and measles I'm personally more in favor of.....

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

No longer vax but there are some circumstances where I would consider a vax. Rabbies is one and the TIG for tetenus are the only 2 I can think of right now.

The major reason for not doing the combo IMO is because if there is a reaction there is no way to know which one of the components caused the problem. I didnt know what caused dd's reaction to the mmr until almost 2 years later when she was tested for allergies and she is egg sensitive/allergic.

If I had given her the flu vax it could have killed her since I didnt know about the eggs.

So if there is a reaction you need to know which one caused it so that you can continue to vax if you wish but avoid that particular vax.

[eclipse]

I voted "I don't vaccinate, but can think of a few reasons why I would consider vaccinating." (Although ds1 is actually partially vax'd). I think if one of my kids was immunocompromised and could be at serious risk from one of my other kids exposing them to a VPD, I might consider getting the other kids vax'd (assuming the sick child couldn't be vaccinated). I would have to do more research on it before making a decision.

[Lizzie9984]

Originally Posted by medusaatemydog

considering some vaccines are injected via intramuscular this will travel right to the brain...

Care to share your medical sources on this?

[amnesiac]

This thread is closed pending review.

[amnesiac]

I am re-opening the thread for discussion. Please remember that we do not permit posting in any manner which casts suspicion on another member or posts which take direct issue with another member's behavior. I have removed several posts from this thread which were either in violation of our guidelines or were responding to such posts. Feel free to PM any questions.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by carriebft

IMO, there are problems with every kind of study, which is why I look at all different kinds and weigh lots of different evidence. You can't just stick with one thing.

Sure. Just FTR, I can't say that I disagree with your conclusions because I've not done much personal research on specific vaccine formulations vs. others, since I don't vaccinate.

I've researched vaccine research in the general sense, and there are certain studies which are just not there...which in part leads me to my decision to not vaccinate my children.

My ramblings are just my trying to better understand your conclusions and researched opinions for myself. If something you've researched (that I haven't) sounds applicable to my own family, I want to make sure I fully explore that avenue. I think it's very important that we all learn from each other.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

i think this is why it is important not to make generalizations. i've heard this before but the ped i asked about this told me that vaxed kids still get pertussis. we've never had it but i wouldn't feel comfortable saying that hardly any doctors will admit this, mine certainly did, and so did the poster's.

It might be generalizing, but it's really not that much of a stretch. I don't think many doctors are all that anxious to find out if a vaccine they gave failed. I also think many doctors assume vaccines work better than they do. With the symptoms of bronchitis and pertussis being so similar, IMO it isn't unrealistic to believe that vaccinated kids often get misdiagnosed as having bronchitis.