Making the Decision - Page 2

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Darryen

Yeah I figured when he washes himself it will be a lot like when I wash myself. I only use non-soap "soap" (like Summer's Eve) and only rinse, no scrubbing. When he is old enough to take showers by himself his dad can explain how to do it and leave it up to him to decide what is comfortable. My mom never told me how to bathe myself and I got many a UTI in high school. My drs also never told me those were dangerous so not a one of them went treated and its by the grace of God I still have my kidneys to this day. We want to make sure our children aren't left in the dark about such important things like we were by our parents. My parents NEVER talked about sex or even how to take care of your own sex organs and it has caused me many problems as an adult. Its the reason I never even thought twice about circumcising our boys... it was never something I was allowed to speak of. I am very glad I thought about it before ours was born though. There is def. a lot to consider about this important decision.

Of course I will explain to everyone how to diaper him but I can name at least 3 who probably won't listen no matter how much I try to explain. I would just not let those people change him, but its his grandparents who I am guessing at some point they will end up changing him. I just want to make sure it won't require a visit to the Dr if someone does get too vigorous in cleaning him.

My first husband was intact. Our first couple of years of marriage we used to live in a very cold apartment (central heating, no way of adjusting the temperature). So we used to take hot showers and hot baths almost every evening. Needless to say, I washed his penis hundreds of times. It really IS nothing, so much nothing that I don't even know why it ever gets brought up! Cleaning my own privet area (while also is VERY easy) is 10 times longer. With intact penis, it takes literally 5-10 seconds: with a motion of a hand you retract it, then wash it as a (big lol) finger and replace the foreskin. Even a mentally challenged guy could do it with no problem! It’s harder and LONGER to wash your hands, not to mention brushing your teeth...what a pain on the b*tt !

[SunShineSally]

Originally Posted by ursaminor

All I can say is,
reflect on the impact circumcision has had on your (and your DH's) life.
Most people do not have issues with 'infection'. My DH and brother have never had a UTI or infection in their lives and they are intact (besides the UTI/circ studies only showed lower UTI rates in infancy not adulthood). The intact women I know treat their infections without radical surgery.

We are biased for a person's right to choose whether or not to get circumcised. Just as many of us are biased that breast milk is the best nutrition for babies. There really are no "two sides of the story". Circumcision has been proven again and again to conquer no real benefit. No medical organization in world recommends it. I can only ask you, are there "two sides of the story" to Female Genital Mutilation?

There are many studies available at cirp.org

I agree with all that ursaminor said. Also as a mother of a son who was circed (he was not supposed to be!! ) who has meatal stenosis I would never wish that on any mother to have to see and help her little baby through and the pain it caused him. and the fear it caused me. It has made me more and more sure that no man just as no women should be circed.

I would belive that you really only need to watch out for doctors/nurses I belive the people in your and your sons life would respect you and him more.

I do nto know about after sexual intercourse but the intact man I was with just rinsed as circed man would

[tutucrazy]

Originally Posted by Darryen

Exactly. I couldn't put it any other way. I know its only been a day and I am sure there are more people who will post here but I wanted to take a moment to say I was right; this board was the perfect place to come for factual, unbiased information (without losing your own perspectives of course). I feel much better about this decision now that I have some facts to weigh.

I do have a couple more questions if you could help:

1. If any one of the many people to change my baby's diaper (in-laws, nurses, friends) doesn't listen and pulls the foreskin back anyways, will it heal?
2. Does the build up on the tip need to be gently cleaned away if its accessible without pulling the foreskin back?
3. As an adult, after intercourse, will he need to pull back the skin (if it will allow) to let the water rinse the female lubricant away or can it be caught under there without issue?

DH knows how I am to clean myself so I imagine he'll be able to explain to our son if he remains intact how to clean his penis. It sounds very much the same besides the questions I posted.

To answer your questions.
1. EVERYONE should be told never to try to retract your son's foreskin if they are going to be changing his diapers. Wipe like a finger from base to tip.

2. You should never try to wipe out the opening. This can introduce bacteria. The opening is a sphincter that only relaxes to urinate. Trying to wipe it out is not necessary and can cause tearing and infection. In fact the reason those early studies reported that intact infants got UTI more than circed infants was b/c they were telling the parents to retract to clean. This was before we knew that the foreskin should not be retracted. You can read about how the foreskin protects against UTI here (half way down): http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php Just wipe the exterior of the penis if there is feces on it. I always showered off my son if his diaper was super messing. I'd do this for my daughter too. A good rule of thumb: only clean what is seen.

3. When your son becomes a man he will know how to pull his foreskin back, rinse, and replace it back over the glans. My intact husband doesn't have any trouble with his own hygiene. He certainly does not have to wash after sex, that is a personal preference thing. No harm will come of not washing directly after sex. The foreskin glide easily. Intact female care is much more involved than intact male care.

[brunettechicagogal]

thank heavens for this message board!

I am 21w pregnant and just found out yesterday I'm having a boy. I'm single, so there's no male partner who I have to come to an agreement with on the issue of circumcision. I've always thought it's as barbaric a practice as female genital mutilation, but I'm glad to see research here that backs up my desire to leave my son's penis intact.

Does anyone know how, beyond interviewing pediatricians on this issue, I can find one who won't make a federal case out of my son's penis every time I take him for a doctor visit? If anyone here lives in Chicago (North Side) and has such a ped, please pass along the name.

Thank you!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I would just ask them. Are you familiar with the intact penis? How do your recommend it be cared for? If he/she answers right then you will know you have a good one if not then keep searching. Or you can do like me and just be ready to laugh off dr's who are not up to date and institute the no touching genitals rules.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by brunettechicagogal

I am 21w pregnant and just found out yesterday I'm having a boy. I'm single, so there's no male partner who I have to come to an agreement with on the issue of circumcision. I've always thought it's as barbaric a practice as female genital mutilation, but I'm glad to see research here that backs up my desire to leave my son's penis intact.

Does anyone know how, beyond interviewing pediatricians on this issue, I can find one who won't make a federal case out of my son's penis every time I take him for a doctor visit? If anyone here lives in Chicago (North Side) and has such a ped, please pass along the name.

Thank you!

When I was pregnant, I focused on making sure the pediatrician knew we wouldn't circ, but it turns out that the OB/GYN does the actual circumcision. So talk to your OB/GYN, and make sure s/he know you don't want to.

[Darryen]

You'd think the people who love him most (his family) would respect this decision... but nope. My mother is extremely controlling and will do it her way because "her way is always correct", my father will listen and respect my wishes. His dad will do the same as mine, but his mom just doesn't understand and conveniently "forgets" things. His grandmother is much like my mom. I will stress to them that you will cause irreversible harm to his genitals if you pull the skin back (even though they likely won't) and hope that gets it across to them.

I talked to DH again last night about this when he had chance to call me and I think we have decided to leave our son intact. His research showed that the "findings" are very contradictory. When pro circ says it keeps infection down, anti circ says the same and he would rather er on the side of caution and not make a permanent change to his son's genitals. I am more caught up on this being a choice issue. There is not enough evidence at all for me to feel this is something that should be done for him instead of letting him choose for himself (such as holding his hand to cross the street when he wants to do it on his own - bad example, but its all I could think of for now).

Thanks again for guiding me to clear, concise information. I hope this thread can help other moms who are thinking about whether or not to circumcise.

I am now interested in why my brother and DH were circed. I'm going to ask my parents tonight and ask DH if he would mind me asking his mom why she chose to do it.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by Darryen

I am now interested in why my brother and DH were circed. I'm going to ask my parents tonight and ask DH if he would mind me asking his mom why she chose to do it.

Probably because she didn't know there was a choice in the matter.

ETA: And oh yes, Yay! : He is a lucky boy.

[BlessedMommy2006]

Yay! : This is one decision that you will never regret. What a lucky boy!

[eepster]

Originally Posted by Darryen

I am now interested in why my brother and DH were circed. I'm going to ask my parents tonight and ask DH if he would mind me asking his mom why she chose to do it.

Depending on how old you guys are, your parents may not have really been given a choice. From the 1950s through the early 1970s it was done automatically in US (and some Canadian) hospitals without asking or informing parents. After that, the consent form was simply slipped in with the rest of the paper work. If you're having a hospital birth, it is still a good idea in much of the country to be very clear with everyone that you don't want it to happen.

[Darryen]

We were both born in 1985. They probably didn't notice. My brother and I are adopted so my parents made the decision with the pediatrician. My mom said that the Dr told her that the son should look like the father to avoid confusion if they saw each other naked and that is was more cleanly. I took that moment to tell her about the research I found that said its not any cleaner after all and that the foreskin doesn't pull back and she seemed to already know that (or didn't want to say she hadn't known) so that's promising.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Darryen

... My mother is extremely controlling and will do it her way because "her way is always correct...

...he would rather err on the side of caution and not make a permanent change to his son's genitals. I am more caught up on this being a choice issue. There is not enough evidence at all for me to feel this is something that should be done for him instead of letting him choose for himself...

This is a good position to take and is consistent with our society's moral and legal stance on bodily integrity.

"His body, his choice"

I would be more assertive regarding retraction. Harm and complications can occur of forcible retracted. It only takes a split second to cause this harm. Ignorance and "my way is the right way" is no excuse.

I would make it clear that there should be absolutely no retraction whatsoever, at anytime. Make this an absolute requirement to have the ability to visit and care for him. Period. I mean really, would you allow her to care for him if you knew she would put him in danger? Leave knives and other dangerous things within his reach because she "forgets" or has decided it is not a problem because she felt it was not? Take him in the car w/o a car seat? Let him play in the street without paying attention to cars? Walk close to the edge of a precipice?

Regards

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Darryen

You'd think the people who love him most (his family) would respect this decision... but nope. My mother is extremely controlling and will do it her way because "her way is always correct", my father will listen and respect my wishes. His dad will do the same as mine, but his mom just doesn't understand and conveniently "forgets" things. His grandmother is much like my mom. I will stress to them that you will cause irreversible harm to his genitals if you pull the skin back (even though they likely won't) and hope that gets it across to them.

You could frame it like fingernails. Would they consider pulling a child's fingernail away from the nail bed? Retracting a fused foreskin is very similar.

I'm really glad to see that you've reached this decision. I have an intact brother (the nurse asked my mom to sign the papers, she asked what that was, and refused once she knew - her ex-husband wasn't circ'd), and two intact sons. I've never had a problem cleaning them, and none of them has ever had any problems wtih UTIs, infections, etc. (My youngest is only four, but my brother is 46, and my oldest is 16.)

I talked to DH again last night about this when he had chance to call me and I think we have decided to leave our son intact. His research showed that the "findings" are very contradictory. When pro circ says it keeps infection down, anti circ says the same and he would rather er on the side of caution and not make a permanent change to his son's genitals. I am more caught up on this being a choice issue. There is not enough evidence at all for me to feel this is something that should be done for him instead of letting him choose for himself (such as holding his hand to cross the street when he wants to do it on his own - bad example, but its all I could think of for now).

Thanks again for guiding me to clear, concise information. I hope this thread can help other moms who are thinking about whether or not to circumcise.

I am now interested in why my brother and DH were circed. I'm going to ask my parents tonight and ask DH if he would mind me asking his mom why she chose to do it.[/QUOTE]