Oh, NO - I'm Pregnant ... And Not Happy About It - Page 3

[Mizelenius]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

Oh and my thoughts are that prospective adoptive parents should be aware they are not getting a blank slate.

No child is a blank slate.  No parent ever knows what they are "getting."

[Mom31]

I will do my best to try to explain it later tonight after I cook dinner. I don't think adoption should not exist but I think it should be a last resort- only after every other alternative has been exhausted.  Many international adoptees were told their families or mothers were deceased only to find out that was a lie later in life.

Ask me some questions and I will do my best to answer them.

And for my thoughts of you not being able to understand is sort of like a white person saying they know what it is like to be black... because they have a friend or sibling who is black. It makes little sense to me.  But I do want to elaborate on my thoughts and will later tonight.  As far as what to do etc.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

And for my thoughts of you not being able to understand is sort of like a white person saying they know what it is like to be black... because they have a friend or sibling who is black. It makes little sense to me.  But I do want to elaborate on my thoughts and will later tonight.  As far as what to do etc.

Except that I'm not saying that I understand what its like being an adoptee.  I never said that, only that I think children without families to care for them, for whatever reason, should have the chance to be adopted by someone who wants to be a mother to them.  I don't really know what you mean by "last resort" either - if a person is choosing not to parent, for whatever reason, their child should be adopted. What other options are there?

[Mom31]

It's not that simple.  I am working on a reply. 

For a simple answer- all attempts should be made for child to be kept with in the mother. If that is not possible then the child should stay within the family. If that is not possible then I support Legal Guardianship where the Guardians have all rights an adoptive parent would without falsifying of birth certificates.

I also am learning a lot lately about how women are convinced to give up their children- and it can be a sick sick process. Women are told it is selfless and they will be able to move on with their lives. This is not always the case.

I will look for some information for you about this.

Most of what I know- comes from within me. Deep within me.... it's not statistics, it's not public opinion- its my heart and soul.... feelings.  You can take it for what it's worth.

but as an adoptee my gut tells me NO- do not give up your baby unless you really can't do it. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem in most circumstances.

[Mom31]

As far as my adoptive mothers relationship and mine.... I would if given the choice chose to stay with my biological family.   I never would have known her and that would be fine with me.  I know that is hard to hear but it is MY truth.  Would my life have been better with my bio family- in some ways yes- in other ways no. I go back and forth on this issue.

All in all I would rather have not been adopted. For many many reasons.
  Even if that means I would not know my adopters now.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

It's not that simple.  I am working on a reply. 

For a simple answer- all attempts should be made for child to be kept with in the mother. If that is not possible then the child should stay within the family. If that is not possible then I support Legal Guardianship where the Guardians have all rights an adoptive parent would without falsifying of birth certificates.

I also am learning a lot lately about how women are convinced to give up their children- and it can be a sick sick process. Women are told it is selfless and they will be able to move on with their lives. This is not always the case.

I will look for some information for you about this.

Most of what I know- comes from within me. Deep within me.... it's not statistics, it's not public opinion- its my heart and soul.... feelings.  You can take it for what it's worth.

but as an adoptee my gut tells me NO- do not give up your baby unless you really can't do it. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem in most circumstances.

I also do not believe in unethical adoption processes, like the one you reference.  If a mother wants to parent, she should.  If the father wants to parent, he should (if the mother is not able to and they won't be co-parenting which is of course ideal but not always possible).  There need to be supports in place in our society to make that possible. 

I have mixed feelings about Legal Guardianship, since most people adopt so that they can become parents, not legal guardians. I also think that children should have parents whenever possible, not guardians.

I don't mind you sharing your opinions, and I'd like to hear them. The thing I don't like is that you seem to present your feelings as though they are a universal truth, when they aren't. Not all adoptees feel the same way you do - my brothers have not been my only experience with adoption.  Adoption is pretty common where I grew up, so I knew alot of adoptees growing up, and at least one of them wants to become an adoption social worker.  I know one adoptee who hates her country of birth (but is only 16 so who knows how that will change) for reasons related to her adoption, that were clearly out of her birth mothers control. 

As for permanent solution to a temporary problem, well, parenting is permanent not temporary. Yes, adoption is a permanent choice and cannot be taken back, however it is important to know that the reasons for giving up a child are not always solely based on finances or other temporary problems. It is also not always the choice of the birth mother, as children enter foster care for many reasons as well (and I really don't want to get into that discussion, I know that system is FAR from perfect, and definitely needs work, but its so varied by region, state and country that its impossible to discuss with any accuracy through an internet forum), and when TPR is granted, those children also deserve families, not just foster families.

[Mom31]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

I don't mind you sharing your opinions, and I'd like to hear them. The thing I don't like is that you seem to present your feelings as though they are a universal truth, when they aren't. Not all adoptees feel the same way you do - my brothers have not been my only experience with adoption.  Adoption is pretty common where I grew up, so I knew alot of adoptees growing up, and at least one of them wants to become an adoption social worker.  I know one adoptee who hates her country of birth (but is only 16 so who knows how that will change) for reasons related to her adoption, that were clearly out of her birth mothers control. 

I used to want to work in adoption to as a social worker... I even went to college for it. It was not until later that I decided to rethink my stance on adoption and its adverse effects on my life.  Many adoptees are told repeatedly throughout their lives how wonderful it is we are adopted and what a wonderful thing it is. It becomes even more confusing once you hit your teen years and find out what it really means.  Evidence is your post- adoption is good and if anyone says adoption is bad .... they are questioned.

Hates her country of birth?  WHY?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

Hates her country of birth?  WHY?

She was born in China, and was abandoned - most likely due to the one child policy.  Thats why.  She is 16 though, so hopefully that will change as time goes on - nothing her adoptive mother has ever said to her has been bad, just a hard thing to understand that your country of birth is so effed up that your birth mother couldn't keep you due to a government policy.

ETA - although, since she was abandoned, we will never really know why, we can only guess.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

Many adoptees are told repeatedly throughout their lives how wonderful it is we are adopted and what a wonderful thing it is. It becomes even more confusing once you hit your teen years and find out what it really means.  Evidence is your post- adoption is good and if anyone says adoption is bad .... they are questioned.

I do believe that adoption is better than the alternative of growing up in an orphanage.  The girl in my previous post is evidence of that.  She came home at 15mo and couldn't even sit up on her own.  By 18mo she was walking, but she would NEVER go into a crib ever again.  She refused to sleep in a crib, and so she and her adoptive mother ended up bedsharing (we think she was just left in a crib at the orphanage, but we'll never know for sure). Surely going from unable to sit up independently to walking in 3months was due at least in part by being cared for one on one.

I agree with you that the ideal is for children to be raised by their birth parents whenever possible - but once a child has been given up they should have the chance to have a family and to belong somewhere.  The system is not perfect, but neither is anything else. I just don't understand why you think that adoption is always bad, and that it shouldn't happen at all.  I don't think that children should grow up in an orphanage when there are families that want to raise them and parent them. 

I wish you would actually respond to my questions, because so far all you have said is that I shouldn't think adoption is a good thing, and that adoption shouldn't happen - but you have no alternatives (aside from legal guardianship - which doesn't solve the problem that children would still be raised by someone other than their birth families - would you feel differently about your own situation if your adoptive parents had been your legal guardians rather than your mom and dad?)

[Mom31]

OK.  I never said adoption should NEVER happen.  I don't believe that. In my case there are times where I think I most likely should have been put up for adoption due to my mother really not being able to raise me.... tho I still don't wish I was adopted....

[Mom31]

Actually there are numerous threads on here from years ago where I share a lot of my journey- from the time I actually started looking into it- 5 years ago. After years of therapy and depression and life issues I finally started to deal with my adoption and its impact on me.

I will try to link them for you. There was an adoptee support thread on here where all parts of the triad came together and discussed things and supported one another.

Like anything I don't have all the answers- I do know I don't think mothers should be encouraged to put their children up for adoption- and that if it is on the table the truth should be told of the impact it could have on the child to all involved.

Here is a pamphlet for birth mothers that is pretty  good I think.

http://www.cubirthparents.org/edd/?id=1

[Mom31]

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/621234/adoptee-support-take-two

[Mom31]

I just did a search on adoptees and found a ton of old threads I participated in. If you want to look at it it shows my thinking and where I was then.  It also tells my story in bits and pieces.

[Mom31]

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/500205/looking-for-adoptees-to-discuss-things-with

[Mom31]

You can take this for what it's worth. I feel very exposed in those threads and was very honest and hmmmm.... raw.  And it's just not me talking on there there are many opinions and feelings from adoptees and others.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

http://www.cubirthparents.org/edd/?id=1

The pamphlet is OK I think - there is too much fear mongering. Certainly not all birth mothers suffer from all of those things that the pamphlet says you WILL suffer from (I know a few birthmothers, and they haven't told me anything like that, although they have open adoptions which they all say good things about).  I think that the very same information could be presented in a much more neutral fashion, that leaves out the fear mongering.  The bottom lines were good - don't sign papers in the hospital, take some time after birth to think about it, don't allow adoptive parents in the delivery room, choose wisely, use a reputable agency, talk to other birth mothers, etc - those were good advice.  The stories told by birth mothers were good, but the fear mongering by the author was not - when considering adoption there is enough pressure and conflicting feelings that even more fear mongering is really not acceptable. (ETA - There really is no need for ANY fear mongering, from ANY side - I just pretty much hate fear mongering in general and think it serves no good purpose)

I also think that mothers should not be encouraged to put their children up for adoption, but should be given support and information about all of their options.  The decision making should be up to no one other than the birth mother.

[Mom31]

Ok. I don't think it is fear mongering. I think it is truth telling. I know birth mothers too.

[Mom31]

http://unplannedpregnancy.blogspot.com/2011/09/im-pregnantis-adoption-for-me.html

This is an adoption expert who specializes in getting birth mothers to give up their babies- these are her tactics. Maybe this is something you feel is better then my pamphlet. It makes me sick.

[Mom31]

http://www.nancyeffay.com/

Just food for thought- tell me what you think of this site? I am just curious....

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Emilie2 

Ok. I don't think it is fear mongering. I think it is truth telling. I know birth mothers too.

The content I think is good - there is just some phrasing that I would change so that it doesn't create fear of things happening which may not happen.  Like telling that "some birth mothers even commit suicide...." in one section.  That should be posed as an actual number, or %, since I doubt it is a high number (although it may be, and then the number is important information as well). Again, the content itself is good - I just have a different style of relaying information so that it does not convey such finality and certainty, since everyone experiences things in different ways.