Cat Urinating Outside Of The Litter Box

[NaturallyKait]

I apologize ahead of time for the super long post.

I love my cat to death, I really do and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to fix this problem. My problem is though, that my family is not quite so willing to try to fix it and just wants to get rid of my cat, or transition her to a 100% outdoor cat. Neither of these are ok with me.

Tachyon was always so good at using her box. She was never picky, couldn't care what was in it or who she shared it with, and never had accidents...until a few months ago. Her litter box is in the laundry room (only room without carpet floors besides our tiny bathroom and the kitchen) and she started peeing on the dirty clothes on the laundry room floor, but no where else. I called my vet, and she said if she was only peeing in the one spot it was likely to be behavioral and not a medical issue, and once we started making sure there was never clothes on the floor, it stopped. She never peed on clean clothes, or anything in any other room.

Last week we started noticing a urine smell through the house, but couldn't find where it was coming from, and it was definitely not the box. After some searching we found a spot under our computer desk that was wet and definitely peed at, but didn't want to jump to conclusions as to whether it was my indoor cat, or my dad's indoor/outdoor, and started watching them very carefully. Yesterday my mother's purse was peed on, as well as under the desk and then today I finally caught my indoor baby peeing on another bad in the kitchen. Back when she peed in the laundry room she always avoided the area, knowing she'd get in trouble but this time she was sitting next to it and crying for my attention, which set off red flags to me. While cleaning it up I noticed it had crystals in it, and called the vet. I have to take her over and she's going to stay overnight so they can get a urine sample and check for a UTI etc.

So, my question is, what happens when she comes home? Hopefully it's something simple we can fix, but what if the vet says she's healthy and it's just a behavior problem? How on earth can I get her to stick to the litter box? If I can't fix this soon she's going to get kicked out and I really don't want her outside, especially after just getting her soft claws on and fixing her other problem of tearing up the carpets. Any suggestions on how to get her to stop this?

Oh, and as an after though, just in case it's important, her litter is called Feline Fresh, and she has never expressed an issue over it. I love it since it keeps the odors down and it's environmentally friendly, I really hope I don't need to change that.

[2xy]

How old is she and what does her diet consist of?

[NaturallyKait]

She just turned two last month, and she eats Chicken Soup For The Cat Lover's Soul food. I had a lot of trouble finding a food she could keep down without having skin reactions and this was the only thing I could find she tolerated. The vet wanted me to feed her special hypoallergenic stuff she sold, but it was so full of junk and so expensive I was happy this stuff worked well for her.

[Nicole915]

If there were crystals that you could easily see without a microscope, the cat has got a pretty acute issue. You know, then, that the issue began as medical, and may turn into behavioral. From the cat's perspective, every time she went into her box to pee, it hurt so much, so she tried other places. Cats are clever, but this is the lesson they can learn. What your challenge will be is getting her back to using the box and noticing that its no longer painful.

I suspect you'll be sent home with some pain meds, some special food (depending on the type of sediment) and maybe antibiotics. What I often recommend is putting the cat in a confined area with her box, someplace like a bathroom where there aren't attractive other places to pee (this does not work if you have a cat who likes to pee in the bathtub) and keep her in there until you see that she's gone three times in her box. You can then transition her out to the rest of your house. If she has another accident, its back to the bathroom. You may have to add some new litter boxes in the places she was using (under the desk). You may also need a new litter box that she doesn't associate with the pain of previous urination.

Products like Nature's Miracle are great at getting the smell out of the carpet.

[NaturallyKait]

Originally Posted by Nicole915

If there were crystals that you could easily see without a microscope, the cat has got a pretty acute issue. You know, then, that the issue began as medical, and may turn into behavioral. From the cat's perspective, every time she went into her box to pee, it hurt so much, so she tried other places. Cats are clever, but this is the lesson they can learn. What your challenge will be is getting her back to using the box and noticing that its no longer painful.

I suspect you'll be sent home with some pain meds, some special food (depending on the type of sediment) and maybe antibiotics. What I often recommend is putting the cat in a confined area with her box, someplace like a bathroom where there aren't attractive other places to pee (this does not work if you have a cat who likes to pee in the bathtub) and keep her in there until you see that she's gone three times in her box. You can then transition her out to the rest of your house. If she has another accident, its back to the bathroom. You may have to add some new litter boxes in the places she was using (under the desk). You may also need a new litter box that she doesn't associate with the pain of previous urination.

Products like Nature's Miracle are great at getting the smell out of the carpet.

Wow, thank you for the wealth of information!

Thankfully, my cat is home now, and she's using her box again! She ended up having to stay two nights because she refused to pee so they could do their urine tests, but was sent home this morning. The vet found white blood cells in her urine, as well as two different types of crystals. She was sent home with some antibiotics, diazepam and a recommendation of changing her diet. Now comes the tricky part of figuring out what to feed her that won't upset her overly sensitive stomach but also won't cause the crystals. The vet didn't recommend a certain brand, but said I should try different kinds that I already know won't upset her stomach. I'm worried it's going to be difficult, since I live in a small town without access to a lot of different brands of food, and the stuff she has now was literally a last resort. Maybe I'll look into a raw diet.

Anyone have any food recommendations?

[Nicole915]

Originally Posted by crunchycanadian

Anyone have any food recommendations?

What type of crystals were found? If you happen to know, that will go a long way towards figuring out what type of food will be best for her. Some crystals can only form when there is an infection, and some are a product of something deeper in her system.

What was she on before (brand/wet or dry)?

Glad to hear she's back home, and that she's on the mend.

[NaturallyKait]

Originally Posted by Nicole915

What type of crystals were found? If you happen to know, that will go a long way towards figuring out what type of food will be best for her. Some crystals can only form when there is an infection, and some are a product of something deeper in her system.

What was she on before (brand/wet or dry)?

Glad to hear she's back home, and that she's on the mend.

My mother was the one who got the call from the vet about the crystals and can't remember what type they were because she didn't think it was important, but my aunt works for my vet and is going to check her file on Monday for me to find out.

Right now she's eating Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul, mostly dry with a little bit of canned food from the same brand maybe once a week for a treat. I'm going to get her some more canned food tonight because the vet did say that maybe eating more moist food would help.

[Jemmind]

Many brands sell food that is designed specifically for urinary health. I'd try those formulas, I'd try this one first: Wellness http://cats.about.com/od/catfood/gr/WellnessCH.htm

[NaturallyKait]

Originally Posted by Jemmind

Many brands sell food that is designed specifically for urinary health. I'd try those formulas, I'd try this one first: Wellness http://cats.about.com/od/catfood/gr/WellnessCH.htm

Yesterday before I headed to work I went to every place in town that sells animal food, and didn't see this. Or anything I'm willing to feed her unfortunately. Small towns are just really not good for selection. It seems the stores only sell typical brand name stuff (Whiskas, Friskies, Purina etc.) and their own equivalents.

I'm leaning towards a raw diet now, knowing that I'm not going to find a quality food for her.

[GreenKnitPocket]

If she likes the Chicken Soup brand that you’re feeding, then maybe changing the food isn’t the answer. You should definitely see what the vet says before you worry about other possible issues – who knows, it could all be medical. Here’s a Vet Notes article from the Chicken soup website that talks about this issue and might be helpful: http://chickensoupforthepetloverssou.../91/?s=20&np=6

[masja]

Cats should eat canned food atleast every day to ensure a healthy urinary tract, as dry food does not contain moisture, so the cat ends up getting less liquid. Depending on what type of crystals were found in the cats urine (struvite is the most common type) there are different foods. The type most often recommended is Hill's S/D for 6-8 weeks and then usually put on a maintenance Hill's C/D. You'd have to get this from your Vet clinic. You can even add water to the dry food you are using, but don't leave it out for longer than 12 hours or so, as it'll start to go bad. Another way to get your kitty to drink more water is to get a water fountain. Try to find the best quality cat food that your budget allows, ones with both a low Ash and magnesium content, as they both can contribute to FUS (Feline urologic syndrome).

[elsie]

I would also add some vitamin C and E to her food. The C will help the pH of her urine and the E will help her bladder heal and make her coat extra soft. I use a powder vitamin C and a liquid vitamin E. We use Nature's Variety for our wet.

I really like the books this holistic vet has written, he has a lot of insight on how to keep your cat healthy and happy:http://www.drmarty.com/

[NaturallyKait]

Originally Posted by GreenKnitPocket

If she likes the Chicken Soup brand that you’re feeding, then maybe changing the food isn’t the answer. You should definitely see what the vet says before you worry about other possible issues – who knows, it could all be medical. Here’s a Vet Notes article from the Chicken soup website that talks about this issue and might be helpful: http://chickensoupforthepetloverssou.../91/?s=20&np=6

The vet and I have already established that her food does need to be changed, it was the first thing she told me to do, the big problem is she's allergic to every cat food under the sun apparently and the food they sell at the vet's office she can't eat. They tried her on it before she came home and she threw it up rather quickly.

[Nicole915]

Originally Posted by crunchycanadian

The vet and I have already established that her food does need to be changed, it was the first thing she told me to do, the big problem is she's allergic to every cat food under the sun apparently and the food they sell at the vet's office she can't eat. They tried her on it before she came home and she threw it up rather quickly.

Were you able to find out what type of crystals? Do you know what exactly she's allergic to? I'm sure your vet told you already, but raw is strongly contraindicated in a FLUTD cat, you'll end up doing so much blood work and UA that you'll be out of a pet care budget in a month. It can be done, but both you and the vet have to be very committed to the routine.

As much as it kills me to say this, Purina actually works pretty well on FLUTD cats. I know they have a bad rep due to being the quintessential grocery store brand, but the do spend more $$$ on research and balancing their products than any other pet food manufacturer out there. As I mentioned before, adding some wet food might help, transition her slowly.

Oh, and lots and lots of hugs.

[NaturallyKait]

Originally Posted by Nicole915

Were you able to find out what type of crystals? Do you know what exactly she's allergic to? I'm sure your vet told you already, but raw is strongly contraindicated in a FLUTD cat, you'll end up doing so much blood work and UA that you'll be out of a pet care budget in a month. It can be done, but both you and the vet have to be very committed to the routine.

As much as it kills me to say this, Purina actually works pretty well on FLUTD cats. I know they have a bad rep due to being the quintessential grocery store brand, but the do spend more $$$ on research and balancing their products than any other pet food manufacturer out there. As I mentioned before, adding some wet food might help, transition her slowly.

Oh, and lots and lots of hugs.

They're struvite crystals and she recommended a couple weeks of science diet canned food and then I could switch her to whatever I wanted to feed her, and that raw was ok.

We narrowed her allergies down to either the preservatives in cat food, or grains. More than likely the grains, so really that knows out almost every type of cat food, definitely every type I can buy here. She doesn't think this is going to be a recurring thing like FLUTD, she thinks it was just another reaction to a food she was allergic to.

Do you have any links to raw being bad for FLUTD cats? Everything I've read has said it's ok, but maybe I've missed it somewhere.

[Nicole915]

Blarg, today is my day off, so of couse I don't have my raw book at hand. I'll check it first thing tomorrow morning. If memory serves, its a calcium / amino acid balance issue... but I'm 7 months pregnant so my memory kinda sucks. Like I said, I'll check and get you the study link tomorrow morning.

Struvite isn't too bad. I secretly hate science diet, but it does a good job for what you'll use it for... short term. Have you looked at waltham? If you find something you like, I suspect your vet will put it on her Butler order for you at no charge, we do this for clients all the time.

[womenswisdom]

We see this all the time in our cat-only practice. What we recommend is treating the infection and then if it becomes a recurrent problem changing the food, which sounds like it might be a good idea in your case. We see excellent results with Royal Canin Urinary S/O canned and dry. I would weigh the benefits of having a cat with a chronic urinary problem versus not wanting to feed artificial foods. If it works to keep your cat healthy, it might be what she needs. I agree with the pp about the raw diet not being ideal for a chronic problem, because you would need to spend tons of money determining if the cat's urinary pH was in the correct range and making alterations to the diet. I know it would make me go broke.

[Nicole915]

Good morning,

I wanted to remember to post here first thing this morning, so if this is less than concise then chalk it up to me not having all my morning tea yet. Here is what I have compiled in my BARF binder.

Western Veterinary Conference, Clinical Nutrition 2007
Here is the best primary source: Funaba M., et al., 2004. Evaluation of the effects of dietary carbohydrate on formation of struvite crystals in urine and macromineral balance in clinically normal cats. Amer J Vet Res 65(2):138-142
-If you can't find that at your local medical library, send me a PM and I can either have a tech fax it to you, or I can make a copy and send it out in the mail. Basically, it says that feeding raw to cats known to have struvite issues is a bad idea.

Another good primary source: Augustin LS, Gallus S, Negri E, et al., Glycemic Index, Glycemic and Protien Load and Risk of Gastric Cancer and Feline struvite crystaluria, Annals of Oncology, 15(4), 2006, pages 581-584o
-This one I only have access to on VIN, but if your aunt can get one of the vets in her practice to log in, she can probably print it off for you.



My general plan of action would be - first test urine pH. Second culture the urine. Higher protein intake (assuming a high intake of raw meat) should cause an acidic urine. PH should be taken 6 times over three days, staggering after meals 30 min, 1 hr, 2 hr, 3hr, 4hr, 6hr. You might also want to do a quick BG.

Look carefully at any supplements added to the raw diet. Many that are available use alkalinizing salts. This is a catch 22, if the client isn't adding supplements it is very unlikely that the animal is getting complete nutrition, in which case some crystals are the least of your worries, but if the patient is getting too much you can see direct affect. Hope you have a good VCPR.

Many of the raw diets use chicken necks and ground bones if feeding a BARF like diet. In that case, the ingredients (bone) will be very high in phosporus, magnesium and have low digestibility - all ingredients for struvite formation.


Hope this is helpful to you, I know how appealing feeding raw can be for some people, and support it in certain situations... but your cat doesn't sound like a good candidate, unless you're really interested in frequent testing over her lifetime, and able to pay those scary bills. It does sound like you're on the path to recovery, I'm so glad she's got the litter box stuff under control. Sometimes it seems so much easier to fix medical rather than behavioral. =)

I would second what the pp mentioned about Royal Canin S/O. You'll probably want to increase wet food, and that is usually gentle on the food sensitive creatures.

Keep us posted!!

[NaturallyKait]

Originally Posted by Nicole915

Good morning,

I wanted to remember to post here first thing this morning, so if this is less than concise then chalk it up to me not having all my morning tea yet. Here is what I have compiled in my BARF binder.

Western Veterinary Conference, Clinical Nutrition 2007
Here is the best primary source: Funaba M., et al., 2004. Evaluation of the effects of dietary carbohydrate on formation of struvite crystals in urine and macromineral balance in clinically normal cats. Amer J Vet Res 65(2):138-142
-If you can't find that at your local medical library, send me a PM and I can either have a tech fax it to you, or I can make a copy and send it out in the mail. Basically, it says that feeding raw to cats known to have struvite issues is a bad idea.

Another good primary source: Augustin LS, Gallus S, Negri E, et al., Glycemic Index, Glycemic and Protien Load and Risk of Gastric Cancer and Feline struvite crystaluria, Annals of Oncology, 15(4), 2006, pages 581-584o
-This one I only have access to on VIN, but if your aunt can get one of the vets in her practice to log in, she can probably print it off for you.



My general plan of action would be - first test urine pH. Second culture the urine. Higher protein intake (assuming a high intake of raw meat) should cause an acidic urine. PH should be taken 6 times over three days, staggering after meals 30 min, 1 hr, 2 hr, 3hr, 4hr, 6hr. You might also want to do a quick BG.

Look carefully at any supplements added to the raw diet. Many that are available use alkalinizing salts. This is a catch 22, if the client isn't adding supplements it is very unlikely that the animal is getting complete nutrition, in which case some crystals are the least of your worries, but if the patient is getting too much you can see direct affect. Hope you have a good VCPR.

Many of the raw diets use chicken necks and ground bones if feeding a BARF like diet. In that case, the ingredients (bone) will be very high in phosporus, magnesium and have low digestibility - all ingredients for struvite formation.


Hope this is helpful to you, I know how appealing feeding raw can be for some people, and support it in certain situations... but your cat doesn't sound like a good candidate, unless you're really interested in frequent testing over her lifetime, and able to pay those scary bills. It does sound like you're on the path to recovery, I'm so glad she's got the litter box stuff under control. Sometimes it seems so much easier to fix medical rather than behavioral. =)

I would second what the pp mentioned about Royal Canin S/O. You'll probably want to increase wet food, and that is usually gentle on the food sensitive creatures.

Keep us posted!!

Wow, you are awesome!

Colour me confused though, because I keep reading about crystals and pH problems, but my vet said that Tachyon's pH was completely normal. Does that make any sense? So much conflicting information is giving me headaches, because I have a lot of people telling me the raw fixed their crystal problems, and even had one tell me that the prescription diet for crystals gave her cat a different type.

Right now I'm doing a mix, while I'm researching. She's eating both some raw meat, and the canned food the vet sent me. The vet said the raw meat would be ok for her to have as long as she had the canned food as well, and I hope she's right. My vet is fantastic with animals, but we really don't get along well and argue a lot, so I always worry.

[Nicole915]

Originally Posted by crunchycanadian

Wow, you are awesome!

=)

Originally Posted by crunchycanadian

Colour me confused though, because I keep reading about crystals and pH problems, but my vet said that Tachyon's pH was completely normal. Does that make any sense?

It does make sense. The pH can vary a great deal, depending on when the UA was taken, how quickly it was analyzed, how it was obtained (cysto vs free catch). What we know for sure is that feeding raw will affect the pH, which is not ideal for your cat.

Originally Posted by crunchycanadian

So much conflicting information is giving me headaches, because I have a lot of people telling me the raw fixed their crystal problems, and even had one tell me that the prescription diet for crystals gave her cat a different type.

Ug, I totally feel for ya. Pets are like kids, everyone has a fix that worked for them that will OF COURSE work for you. What I try to practice is evidence based medicine, which means working through the issues logically. While anecdotal experiences are valuable, if I believed them all I would just take the magical pills they sell on infomercials and stop working out so much =)

As a matter of background, I was very pro raw for a long time, but the evidence shows it is doing my patients more damage than help. I make more money than I'd like to admit off fixing raw diet pets. People tend to take an ideological position with raw food diet, which can could judgment.

Originally Posted by crunchycanadian

Right now I'm doing a mix, while I'm researching. She's eating both some raw meat, and the canned food the vet sent me. The vet said the raw meat would be ok for her to have as long as she had the canned food as well, and I hope she's right. My vet is fantastic with animals, but we really don't get along well and argue a lot, so I always worry.

How is she doing on the current diet? Any vomiting or diarrhea? Your vet knows your pet better than I do, better than anyone on the internet, so I'd trust her. If she's good at what she does, you're paying for her advice... I often wish clients would take the advice they pay for. =)

Well, I'm outta work for the day. Have a good afternoon!