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What do you think of the prmial diet? - Page 2

post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimibell View Post
That is the book I have. I wake up hungry and then I eat so for me that is breakfast. So if I ate juice first thing that would be my breakfast. I always think that the first thing you eat when you wake up is generally breakfast.
Why can you not drink juice, wait 45 minutes then eat? If you think that this would be so hard for you, why are you bothering to look at the Primal diet? I don't mean to be snarky, but if you are coming up with reasons why not to try it, just don't. With the diet, you really have to commit. Now, compromising and drinking raw green veggie juice sometime during the day and adding more raw meat/fish into your diet is great, but it isn't the Aajonus diet.
post #22 of 66
^Man! I would be pretty challenged to live a life with such a rigid mantra! It does seem like you're trying to be snarky, too. Are you sure you didn't mean to?

I'm not speaking for anyone here, but generally "healthy" people look at "diet" as "what they eat in their every day of life," not as "a diet" as in the all or nothing "I go on and off this diet that "works" great when I'm "on the wagon" but it's so restrictive I can't manage to live my life that way."

That latter view seems to drive a lot of people crazy, hence when many "diet experts" talk about "diets" now they stress the importance of making it a lifestyle change that benefits all over wellness in the long term and dissuade people from "going on a diet" that's extremely restrictive for the sake of some short term benefit only to "fall off the wagon" of rigid ideas into a pit of self-loathing and disappointment (I'm not saying that's what you personally experience when you "go off" this diet, just in general)

I think the OP is expressing what will and won’t work for her - I think that is a testament of true health and wellness. Pardon me if I don't find someone who "goes on and off a diet" as a credible testament to that diet

An interesting tidbit: to many people the "Primal" diet is a diet that mimics a "Paleolithic" diet, which includes:

meat
vegetables
nuts
fruits
NO DAIRY

e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo_diet
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
Actually primitive peoples likely did what chimps do, chew their veggies then spit out the fiber (which is largely indigestible). When raw veggie juice is not available, Aajonus recommends doing just his with celery.
This would do WONDERS for my 3yo's manners! Seeing mom spit out celery all over the place. AWESOME

ANYWAY, OP, yes - humans have been cooking their food since the Paleolithic era, so technically it's primal to cook!
post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaJoAnne View Post
Sally Fallons answer to the juicing thing is, where did Adam and Eve plug in their blender?
Probably the same place they got their scoby

As humans invent/discover new ideas other cultures tend to use and adapt them.
post #24 of 66
I haven't read the book, but I feel skeptical about what's been described.

Raw meat? Is that tiny amounts or what? Human beings have SMALL jaws. We've evolved not to do a lot of chewing; our digestive systems aren't well suited for digesting much raw meat. Here's discussion with an academic; someone whose reputation depends on getting his analysis right rather than trying to sell you something:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...65&ft=1&f=1032

And what do you do about the salmonella & parasite risks? Cooking KILLS nasties in meat. And on other foods, too. Don't try a raw food diet unless you live in a rich country with a safe drinking water source.

Think of Lena Horne? She is famous for looking decades younger than her real age, and she probably eats the most conventional diet going.

My brother was on a raw foods diet for a while (vegan). He had great skin when he did it, I must confess. Unfortunately he also rather resembled a rabbit or a cow he had to chew his food so much. Later he became a crystal meth addict, so not really the best ambassador for his nutritional obsessions. :
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimibell View Post
That is the book I have. I wake up hungry and then I eat so for me that is breakfast. So if I ate juice first thing that would be my breakfast. I always think that the first thing you eat when you wake up is generally breakfast.

I make green smoothies (blend of greens, fruit and coconut milk--not juiced so not exactly what you're talking about) when I wake up and drink them *with* my breakfast (usually eggs). Maybe you could do this? I realize this is against the diet as described, but I love having green drinks in the am! YUM! :
post #26 of 66
I just would not be able to get raw meat down without gagging.
post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavy View Post
I haven't read the book, but I feel skeptical about what's been described.

Raw meat? Is that tiny amounts or what? Human beings have SMALL jaws. We've evolved not to do a lot of chewing; our digestive systems aren't well suited for digesting much raw meat. Here's discussion with an academic; someone whose reputation depends on getting his analysis right rather than trying to sell you something:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...65&ft=1&f=1032
Interesting article. I love raw fish, but I don't really care for raw meat, although I like a rare steak at times and traditionally made jerky which is dried at low temps so that it is still technically "raw." I wonder if the drying process denatures the proteins in the meat like cooking does. Anyone know?
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carley View Post
^Man! I would be pretty challenged to live a life with such a rigid mantra! It does seem like you're trying to be snarky, too. Are you sure you didn't mean to?

I'm not speaking for anyone here, but generally "healthy" people look at "diet" as "what they eat in their every day of life," not as "a diet" as in the all or nothing "I go on and off this diet that "works" great when I'm "on the wagon" but it's so restrictive I can't manage to live my life that way."

That latter view seems to drive a lot of people crazy, hence when many "diet experts" talk about "diets" now they stress the importance of making it a lifestyle change that benefits all over wellness in the long term and dissuade people from "going on a diet" that's extremely restrictive for the sake of some short term benefit only to "fall off the wagon" of rigid ideas into a pit of self-loathing and disappointment (I'm not saying that's what you personally experience when you "go off" this diet, just in general)

I think the OP is expressing what will and won’t work for her - I think that is a testament of true health and wellness. Pardon me if I don't find someone who "goes on and off a diet" as a credible testament to that diet

An interesting tidbit: to many people the "Primal" diet is a diet that mimics a "Paleolithic" diet, which includes:

meat
vegetables
nuts
fruits
NO DAIRY

e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo_diet
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/



This would do WONDERS for my 3yo's manners! Seeing mom spit out celery all over the place. AWESOME

ANYWAY, OP, yes - humans have been cooking their food since the Paleolithic era, so technically it's primal to cook!
When you have read all Aajonus's work, attended a workshop or two and kept up to date with his newsletters, then we can have an intelligent discussion. Of course you are free express your opinions, but it isn't worth my time addressing your post.
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavy View Post
I haven't read the book, but I feel skeptical about what's been described.

Raw meat? Is that tiny amounts or what? Human beings have SMALL jaws. We've evolved not to do a lot of chewing; our digestive systems aren't well suited for digesting much raw meat. Here's discussion with an academic; someone whose reputation depends on getting his analysis right rather than trying to sell you something:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...65&ft=1&f=1032

And what do you do about the salmonella & parasite risks? Cooking KILLS nasties in meat. And on other foods, too. Don't try a raw food diet unless you live in a rich country with a safe drinking water source.
Again, read his work and you will understand. FWIW you don't chew the meat ad-infinitum, you take it in small pieces and swallow, the meat breaks down quickly and easily. We actually digest raw meat more easily than just about any other food. It goes through in 3 hours. As for pathogen fear... what can I say, but read the books. As an aside, I have eaten raw meat for 11 years and never gotten sick. My DH has eaten high meat without any sickness. The Inuit lived on raw high meat for millennium.

Oh, and Aajonus isn't trying to "sell" his diet, he is a nutritionist, this is his life's work. Obviously, he has to make a living so charges for consultations, workshop, his two books and his quarterly newsletter. But he certainly isn't on financial mission to persuade people to eat his way. If you consult him, he will give you his advise. If what he says doesn't resonate with you, move on (or back).
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Sage View Post
Interesting article. I love raw fish, but I don't really care for raw meat, although I like a rare steak at times and traditionally made jerky which is dried at low temps so that it is still technically "raw." I wonder if the drying process denatures the proteins in the meat like cooking does. Anyone know?
Even the low temperatures of drying meat will destroy some of the enzymes in the meat. The best way to make raw meat and fish more "digestible" is to soak it in lemon or lime juice.
post #31 of 66
quick question...
i am wondering how long man has been eating dairy as compared to how long we have been eating cooked foods.

h
post #32 of 66
I think some styles of eating become a religion with dogmatist abound.

It has been discovered that cooking some foods enhances their ability to be used by our bodies. Information our ancestors didn't have nor did they have the resources to cook their foods (well until they did ).

I think a diet consisting of a lot of raw foods is great but I also believe cooking a portion of our foods has health benefits.

Looking 15 yrs younger has a lot more to do with genetics than anything else imo. I have family members who look 15 yr. younger than they are and they by no means eat a primal diet. In fact one of them has congestive heart failure and a mild from of MD and another one has been a drug addict off and on since she was a teen.
post #33 of 66
i would think that certain foods would not be in a primal diet as they would not have been around when peiople were not cooking food. if we are going pre-caveman (as they did cook) then they wouldn't have had dairy would they? i mean having domesticated animals came well after we started cooking foods. although i am 100% behind raw dairy, i don't see how that really is a "primal" food as we had agriculture and cooking at that time.

h
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
Even the low temperatures of drying meat will destroy some of the enzymes in the meat. The best way to make raw meat and fish more "digestible" is to soak it in lemon or lime juice.
Thanks.

A question about Aajonus's plan: What benefit does he say the vegetable juice gives? Is it a requirement of the diet, or can one be a total carnivore on his plan? By carnivore I mean no plant material but still including eggs and dairy. I guess what I really want to know is do the vegetable juices make eating raw meat safer or healthier, or is the juice in the diet for other reasons?

(I am experimenting with a carnivore diet right now and am curious about eating more raw food, although I am not planning on going totally raw. Just to let you know where I'm coming from. )
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderMae View Post
I think some styles of eating become a religion with dogmatist abound.

It has been discovered that cooking some foods enhances their ability to be used by our bodies. Information our ancestors didn't have nor did they have the resources to cook their foods (well until they did ).

I think a diet consisting of a lot of raw foods is great but I also believe cooking a portion of our foods has health benefits.

Looking 15 yrs younger has a lot more to do with genetics than anything else imo. I have family members who look 15 yr. younger than they are and they by no means eat a primal diet. In fact one of them has congestive heart failure and a mild from of MD and another one has been a drug addict off and on since she was a teen.
Why do I bother.....?

Foods that "need" to be cooked probably shouldn't be eaten. The only foods that should be cooked to be consumed are starches.

I don't want to defend Aajonus here, its not worth it. But I will say the man is buff and he doesn't workout a jot, with the exception of heavy yard work, trimming trees, once a year.

The only people that have some knowledge of Aajonus and his work are the OP and Razmatazz, so I am really loathed to participate in this one-sided debate further unless people really want to learn about the diet, then I would be happy to provide what information I know.
post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Sage View Post
Thanks.

A question about Aajonus's plan: What benefit does he say the vegetable juice gives? Is it a requirement of the diet, or can one be a total carnivore on his plan? By carnivore I mean no plant material but still including eggs and dairy. I guess what I really want to know is do the vegetable juices make eating raw meat safer or healthier, or is the juice in the diet for other reasons?

(I am experimenting with a carnivore diet right now and am curious about eating more raw food, although I am not planning on going totally raw. Just to let you know where I'm coming from. )
I highly recommend reading both Aajonus's books, especially The Recipe for Living Without Disease (sorry I got the title wrong in my previous post, my copy is missing and I can never remember the name). You need the juice for the vitamins and minerals. It also helps with detoxing the body. Aajonus's diet is a perfect balance between breaking down toxins (the juice) and rebuilding tissue (raw meat and dairy, esp cream and butter). So doing it in its entirety is optimal but not mandatory. I actually don't like raw green veggie juice very much, but I drink it like I would take supplements. It has nothing to do with making the meat safer, raw meat is NOT unsafe. The only no no, if you want to succeed with the diet, is never eating raw salad/veggies with meat. Firstly, it makes eating raw meat very difficult and secondly our bodies have a very hard time digesting the vegetation. If you absolutely "have" to have a raw salad then eat it last thing at night, when you have the night to digest it and then only very three weeks or so at most.
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
quick question...
i am wondering how long man has been eating dairy as compared to how long we have been eating cooked foods.

h


http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ose-toleraence
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
if we are going pre-caveman (as they did cook) then they wouldn't have had dairy would they? i mean having domesticated animals came well after we started cooking foods. although i am 100% behind raw dairy, i don't see how that really is a "primal" food as we had agriculture and cooking at that time.

h



That's exactly the idea behind the "Paleo" diets. It really doesn't make sense to "go primal" - NOT cook food based on a possible pre-homonid (i.e. prior to the use of fire) diet & then consume dairy products. Especially cream and butter. That involves processing.

It seems like his diet is based more on the idea of Australopithecus opposed to Homonids, which is an even further stretch since there’s even less evidence for their diet. Still – I don’t think there have been any recorded cases of great apes consuming raw dairy other than their mother’s milk, and the quantity of meat consumption would probably be scant - if you're going by "what (pre homonids) & chimps do"

I don't think it's possible to say that NO Paleolithic cultures ever consumed dairy. There's evidence some humans (i.e. Homonids!) domesticated dogs, so I think it's possible some discovered the nutritious benefits of other mammal's milk (there's not evidence in either direction). I do think it’s improbable that non-homonids had anything to do with the milk of other species, though.

But yeah - weird! I really don't need to pay someone to hear their ideas on how to eat a limited diet There's an abundance of free scholarly lectures in my city - if I want to hear someone talk, I'll choose someone with credibility

If you're really going to go overboard Primal, cultivated fruits and vegetables should definitely be off the list. There goes your celery!
post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post

You realize the Neolithic era is post Paleolithic - hence WELL past human's use of fire? I mean - people were REALLY cooking at that point! There goes the neighborhood!
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by uccomama View Post
I highly recommend reading both Aajonus's books, especially The Recipe for Living Without Disease (sorry I got the title wrong in my previous post, my copy is missing and I can never remember the name). You need the juice for the vitamins and minerals. It also helps with detoxing the body. Aajonus's diet is a perfect balance between breaking down toxins (the juice) and rebuilding tissue (raw meat and dairy, esp cream and butter). So doing it in its entirety is optimal but not mandatory. I actually don't like raw green veggie juice very much, but I drink it like I would take supplements. It has nothing to do with making the meat safer, raw meat is NOT unsafe. The only no no, if you want to succeed with the diet, is never eating raw salad/veggies with meat. Firstly, it makes eating raw meat very difficult and secondly our bodies have a very hard time digesting the vegetation. If you absolutely "have" to have a raw salad then eat it last thing at night, when you have the night to digest it and then only very three weeks or so at most.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I will see if I can find his books at the library.
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