Children's books - rant/question (long...sorry!)

[newmoon2000]

My 3yo twins are finally at an age where they are starting to appreciate storybooks more than picture books. So, I dug out some of the “classic favorites” that people have given us over the years. Frankly...I was HORRIFIED. The storylines seem unnecessarily frightening and/or teach “lessons” that I don’t think my children would benefit from learning.

For instance, we sat down to read Stellaluna, a treasured favorite, right? Within the first two pages, the baby bat and her mother are purposefully attacked by a mean owl, the baby gets separated from her mother and, although adopted by a mother bird, is chastised and threatened by said mother bird, just for being herself. I stopped reading the words at this point and just made up a story to go with the pictures. I could tell the story was making them sad.

Next, I picked up “When Sophie Gets Angry”. in this book, Sophie’s sister snatches her gorilla away (an action which, by the way, Sophie’s mother condones and supports), and Sophie goes into an angry rage. OK, that’s cool. And understandable. Let’s see how Sophie handles her anger. Hmmm...she runs out the door and keeps running really far into the woods, then sits in a tree for the rest of the day. Nobody bothers to look for her, but eventually she comes home in time for dinner and everybody is happy to see her and she’s not angry any more. I’m sorry. The last thing I want my kids doing is running out the front door and disappearing all day whenever they get mad.

Then, I found a copy of the Three Little Bears. In my memory, that story ends with Goldilocks and the bears living happily ever after together. But in this version, the bears find Goldilocks sleeping and scare her and she runs away. So sad!

Finally, I pulled out the Jungle Book (a beautiful pop-up version). But many of the pages had terrifying pop-up animals and/or a young boy wielding weapons. Huh?

So...give me some perspective, please. Am I over-reacting? Was this a reasonable sampling of children's books, or did I just happen across the wrong books today? Or am I simply reading books that aren't age-appropriate? Are my kids just too young? Will they someday reach an age where they will enjoy these kinds of stories without feeling scared or sad?

In the meantime, there must be some “nice” stories out there, right? Any recommendations? I was planning to bring the boys to the library this week, but I see I’m going to have to read the books thoroughly before bringing them home. Does anybody know of a reliable, trusted source of good books for younger children?

[ShyDaisi]

I don't really have any recommendations, but I have found the same thing to be true of movies that I watched when I was younger and even some that have come out geared towards children since. I hate that in order to have a decent book or movie that there has to be bad behavior. I understand that there needs to be a "conflict" for a story, but does it have to illustrate a behavior that I have no intention of my child learning how to do? A lot of times the negative behavior is corrected or resolved, but not before putting the idea in the child's head to begin with!!!

[Wild Lupine]

I've found the same thing; either the books are terrifying, or have questionable (at best ) messages. Someone sent my 2 1/2 year old daughter Rapunzel the other day. Yeah, I'm going to introduce extremely biased standards of beauty to my 2 year old African American daughter, along with a plot of a witch kidnapping a child and locking her in a tower. Who wrote this stuff???

Good idea for a list of positive, engaging stories for preschoolers. Some ones we like here are:

Zen Ties, Zen Shorts, and Stone Soup, all by John Muth
Over the Moon by Karen Katz (especially good if adoption has touched your lives, but you might want to read it first)
Make Way for Ducklings, by Robert McCloskey

[Momily]

In our country there's been a major trend to "push things down" to younger and younger children. I see toys that I played with and loved as an elementary school student being marketed for toddlers all the time.

The same thing is true for books. In an effort to get kids "ahead" parents read books to them that previously would have been read to much older children. Rapunzel, for example, is probably a story written with elementary school children in mind. I remember when my son was in PreK there were several other families reading Harry Potter to their children. As a teacher and curriculum writer of young children, I have to say that even from an intelligence or reading perspective, I think this trend is wrong. I think that children need to learn that books are an opportunity to make meaning, create pictures in their heads etc . . . When we read books to our children that are over their head they learn that reading can be confusing, and they learn to take it all in passively, and when they take things in passively, they absorb messages that we don't want them to have.

If you read Rapunzel to a 2 1/2 year old, your child is going to learn that maybe there are witches, and that long blond hair is particularly beautiful, and that girls need princes to carry them away and rescue them. If you read the same book to your 5 year old you can use it as a jumping off place for conversations that clarify you family's values in this area, you can follow it up by creating your own alternative version that reflects those values, and your child will walk away with the opposite message.

If you read When Sophie Gets Very Angry to your 3 year old they'll learn that when you get angry you should go sit in a tree. If you read it with your 6 year old they'll get the concept that sometimes anger is overwhelming, and that you feel like running away, which can segue into a conversation about how anger is best handled in the context of your family.

So, definitely choose books carefully for your young child. Be on the look out for hidden messages (and you've found a lot there), but instead of rejecting books as bad, think of them as books for later. There's a lot to be gained from classic children's literature if you read it at the age it was intended for.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by newmoon2000

So...give me some perspective, please. Am I over-reacting? Was this a reasonable sampling of children's books, or did I just happen across the wrong books today? Or am I simply reading books that aren't age-appropriate? Are my kids just too young? Will they someday reach an age where they will enjoy these kinds of stories without feeling scared or sad?

In the meantime, there must be some “nice” stories out there, right? Any recommendations? I was planning to bring the boys to the library this week, but I see I’m going to have to read the books thoroughly before bringing them home. Does anybody know of a reliable, trusted source of good books for younger children?

I might be in the minority here, but I do think that you are overreacting.

If Stellaluna and Goldilocks are not up to your standards, then I doubt your children will be able to read classic literature even as they grow up. It doesn't get any more gentle. The Jungle Book (the original chapter version) is quite violent, btw. Not only Mauglee has a knife he uses it to kill in defense. Little Mermaid dies, Bambi loses a mother, and his best friend Feline a brother (in the book). The folk tales - one big mess. Little girl with three matches freezes to death. Little Prince dies. Sherlock Holmes takes drugs. In Jane Eyer, her best friend dies at the age of 12 as she is holding her. Anna Karenina commits suicide.

I think there is value in scary and sad stories (not Saw V kind of scary, but Stellaluna kind of scary). I think it teaches compassion in a safe way. I think it teaches that sometimes people hurt in a safe way. I also think that it teaches to work through these scary feelings. Would I insist that a child sits through a book they are scared of? No. There were books that I didn't like that bothered me for one reason or another. Sometimes it's a specific illustration or wording. But I would be careful to project my own feelings of "this is too scary" onto a child, and I wouldn't cast out all the books with unhappy/scary story lines, yk?

I don't apply the same rules to TV, as it is more hypnotic in a sense, and invites imitation from a child without thinking about the action. But storytelling has been a part of childhood all throughout the world for a reason. Unlike with TV, you have to think and process the story you hear/read.

If I felt about this issue as strongly as you do, I would probably talk to the local librarian in the children section. They could help you with some titles to start with. At the same time, I hope you will consider giving some of these books a chance. They became classics for a reason.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by Momily

In our country there's been a major trend to "push things down" to younger and younger children. I see toys that I played with and loved as an elementary school student being marketed for toddlers all the time.

The same thing is true for books. In an effort to get kids "ahead" parents read books to them that previously would have been read to much older children. Rapunzel, for example, is probably a story written with elementary school children in mind. I remember when my son was in PreK there were several other families reading Harry Potter to their children. As a teacher and curriculum writer of young children, I have to say that even from an intelligence or reading perspective, I think this trend is wrong. I think that children need to learn that books are an opportunity to make meaning, create pictures in their heads etc . . . When we read books to our children that are over their head they learn that reading can be confusing, and they learn to take it all in passively, and when they take things in passively, they absorb messages that we don't want them to have.

If you read Rapunzel to a 2 1/2 year old, your child is going to learn that maybe there are witches, and that long blond hair is particularly beautiful, and that girls need princes to carry them away and rescue them. If you read the same book to your 5 year old you can use it as a jumping off place for conversations that clarify you family's values in this area, you can follow it up by creating your own alternative version that reflects those values, and your child will walk away with the opposite message.

If you read When Sophie Gets Very Angry to your 3 year old they'll learn that when you get angry you should go sit in a tree. If you read it with your 6 year old they'll get the concept that sometimes anger is overwhelming, and that you feel like running away, which can segue into a conversation about how anger is best handled in the context of your family.

So, definitely choose books carefully for your young child. Be on the look out for hidden messages (and you've found a lot there), but instead of rejecting books as bad, think of them as books for later. There's a lot to be gained from classic children's literature if you read it at the age it was intended for.

I think I agree to a degree. Of course original Bambi may be a bit over the head for a three year old, the language alone is challenging. But when storytelling was part of daily life, 3 y.o. were not sent out of the room when Goldilocks was told. Also, does it mean that to avoid the confusion no stories about fairies or gnomes should be told? Or does it only apply to witches and trolls? And if my daughter will think she needs a prince to rescue her all her life, I really think that those messages would have been ingrained through the way I model my life, rather than fairy tales. If I worry about her listening to fairy tales at the age of three, what books will I be censoring when she is 10? 15? Will Black Beauty be okay? There is quite a bit of suffering and misery for the poor horses in that book, including Black Beauty watching his brother getting shot in the beginning of the book. Is that too much for a 10 y.o.? Should 12 y.o. read Uncle Tom's Cabin? Should 15 y.o. read Duma who goes from condoning adultery to description of torture?

I think we have to be careful in understanding "sheltering" vs. "limiting", yk? I say all of this because neither Goldilocks nor Stellaluna strike me as over the head for a 3 y.o.

[MeepyCat]

We love John Muth's Zen Shorts too. The whole book is a bit long for our 2.5 year-old (he'll sometimes sit through, sometimes not), but he requests it and enjoys it.

It's easy, as an adult, to overread a children's book. When you do read books to approve them for your children, remember to try and think from their perspective. Is When Sophie Gets Very Angry about a neglected child, or about childish fantasies of escapism, revenge, return and forgiveness?

Are your children as scared by the animals in Jungle Book as you are, and how do they react to that? My son will sometimes seek scary things, in the presence of a trusted adult, specifically so he can demand comfort, try out coping strategies, and investigate while he has backup handy - he's very curious, and just because something frightens him doesn't mean it's not interesting. It's not for bedtime, but not everything has to be.

One of my favorite kids books is Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day. Nothing good happens to Alexander all day, and his parents, teachers and caregivers are universally unsympathetic. At the end of the day, his mom tucks him in and tells him that some days are like that. You could write it off as simply an awful story about a little boy surrounded by mean kids and callous adults, but that's not how my son reacts to it. I mean, first, it is a hoot to read out loud. If you have ever dropped an ice cream cone, you can do a convincing and sympathetic Alexander. DS will suggest things that Alexander could do, he'll pet the pictures and give Alexander kisses, and since he's old enough to have had the occasional grumpy day himself, I think he likes to hear that it's not just him.

[mamazee]

Stellaluna was my dd's favorite book at 3. I don't think it's bad for books to evoke strong emotions, even in young children, personally.

[Daffodil]

I think you're probably overreacting. Of course, you have to consider your own particular kids and the kinds of things that scare them or make them sad - but you shouldn't assume that those will be the same things that strike you as too scary or sad. For instance, as an adult (and a mother), I find it very sad when Babar's mother is shot and he's crying next to her body. That scene doesn't seem to make a big impression on my kids, and I don't remember being particularly sad about it when I was a kid either.

It's also possible that your kids might want to hear books that are just a little scary. As 3 year olds, both mine developed an interest in "scary" books. DD, for instance, at first thought Bedtime for Frances was too scary, because Frances imagines she sees scary things in her bedroom. But as she thought about it and talked about it, she moved from being scared to being kind of scared but also kind of fascinated, and then she started asking me to read that book to her and soon decided she wasn't scared of it at all anymore. She seemed to really like that it had "scary" stuff in it that she wasn't scared of. (Oh, and the part where Frances is threatened with a spanking - the part that seems to bother a lot of MDC moms the most - that was a non-issue for her. I had to explain what spanking was, but it didn't upset her.)

There are lots of "nice" stories out there, too. (Though when I try to come up with some by thinking of my kids' favorite books, I keep remembering things in the books that might disqualify them for you.) Maybe you'd like Dr. Seuss's Sleep Book, or Happy Birthday to You! (another Seuss one.) Maybe Frog and Toad, or Little Bear, or Henry and Mudge.

[caro113]

I agree and disagree with the over reacting part. For their age, it may be inappropriate, but as others said, it may be okay once they get older.

But I agree that a lot of children's books and movies have this odd culture about them. Look at all the Disney films. The girls are almost always raised by their single dads. A lot have step mothers, all of whom are horrible and treat the girl like garbage. (There's a good lesson for children of blended families ) And just about every cartoon (except for Alice in Wonderland and Mulan, I think) end with the girl finally being happy, finally having the live she wants, bc she finally married a prince, usually at 16!!

Have you read Wizard of Oz? When Dorothy and the crew are on their way to find the Wicked Witch, she sends a flow of crows; the Tin Man breaks all their necks. They also kill all the bees she sends their way, although I don't remember how.

A lot of books and movies geared toward children do seem to feel a need to "teach" a lesson when I don't feel they have to. That's why I like Charlie Brown. The one book, about the great pumpkin, shows Linus' disappointed when he doesn't show up but he says that the great pumpkin will come next year and he looks forward to that.

We aren't really at the stage where the words matter yet, so I don't have any suggestions but I hope you find some decent books soon!! Good Luck

[One_Girl]

I think these are books your children just aren't ready for. My dd absolutely loves Stellaluna. She sees it as a nature book with a happy ending. A lot of books tend to have a sad part and then a happy resolution. If your children don't seem like they can handle the happy-sad-happy sequence of books then I suggest closely looking at the books before getting them to read to your children. For a book like When Sophie Gets Mad you could talk about how to better control your anger or about the differences between the book way and your family's way.
I personally like the message in Goldilocks. If I found someone in my house I would scare them out also. I use this book to talk about stranger danger with my dd.

I don't know of many children's stories for three year olds who are more sensitive off the top of my head. When my dd was this age I just looked through really carefully to pick stories I thought she would be okay with. Don't go by cute covers or reliable authors. I got one that was about all the birds murdering each other and it was by one of our favorite authors at the time. The pictures were GRAPHIC.

[ssh]

'If You Give a Mouse a Cookie' by Numeroff is a fun book, and there are several similar titles. About age 3 my DD started liking spookier stuff and wanted to hear halloween stories. Lately she likes stories about nature and animals. 'Monsoon Afternoon' by Kasmira Sheth , 'Alaska's Three Bears' by Shannon Cartwright, and 'Animal Explorers: A Swim in the Ocean' by Dorothea DePrisco are some favorites. The Animal explorer books are puzzle books where the animals come out as puzzle pieces. We have two of the 3 books. My DD loves them. We usually pick out library books and if DD really can't bare to give one back we usually find it on amazon.

[Eeyore35]

We love Robert Munsch,and also merecer meyer's Critter books.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I think I agree to a degree. Of course original Bambi may be a bit over the head for a three year old, the language alone is challenging. But when storytelling was part of daily life, 3 y.o. were not sent out of the room when Goldilocks was told. Also, does it mean that to avoid the confusion no stories about fairies or gnomes should be told? Or does it only apply to witches and trolls? And if my daughter will think she needs a prince to rescue her all her life, I really think that those messages would have been ingrained through the way I model my life, rather than fairy tales. If I worry about her listening to fairy tales at the age of three, what books will I be censoring when she is 10? 15? Will Black Beauty be okay? There is quite a bit of suffering and misery for the poor horses in that book, including Black Beauty watching his brother getting shot in the beginning of the book. Is that too much for a 10 y.o.? Should 12 y.o. read Uncle Tom's Cabin? Should 15 y.o. read Duma who goes from condoning adultery to description of torture?

I think we have to be careful in understanding "sheltering" vs. "limiting", yk? I say all of this because neither Goldilocks nor Stellaluna strike me as over the head for a 3 y.o.

I don't disagree. I wrote in the post if you read Rapunzel to "your" 3 year old, because I respect the mama who wrote that's opinion of what her child is ready for. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's over the head of every 3 year old.

Looking back at what I wrote, I realize that was not really clear. I do think, however, that there's a difference between exposing a child to something (e.g. your child is in the room while you tell the story of Goldilocks) and sitting your child down and saying "This is for you." My son at 3 was in the room when the news was on on a pretty regular basis, but I didn't sit him down with the newspaper and say "let me read you this nice story about the war in Afghanistan". In the second case I'm directly telling my child -- here's something I expect you to make meaning from, which for my child at 3 he wouldn't have been able to do in a productive way.

My bigger point, however is that some things are worth waiting for. If your child is not ready for Rapunzel, then put it aside, but don't dismiss it as a bad book, it's simply something created for a child at a different stage of development.

[GoestoShow]

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Edited by GoestoShow - 12/10/10 at 6:42pm

[rachelsmama]

I don't know your kids, so I don't know whether the stories are appropriate for them, but I can certainly say that some 3 year olds do just fine with the classics in their original, gruesome form (which is good because the "nice" versions make me gag). The simple fact is, the world is a complex place that isn't fair, and isn't always nice. Because my daughter knows that I worry about her less. Fairy tales and other "scary" things have led to some very healthy and very important conversations for us.

[SarahElizabeth]

I think discussing the books ("nice" or otherwise) is critical at storytime. A story about a girl running away from home won't lead your children to believe it's a healthy way of dealing with anger if you talk to them about it and brainstorm better ways to handle things.

My son is only 7.5mos, so story time for him involves stroking pictures and trying to swipe the glasses from my face while ignoring every word that I say, but I read him classic fairy tales more than anything else (In fact, the first book I bought for him was a treasury of fairy tales) but even now I'll talk to him about the story we've just read and I hope the nightly tradition will continue for a very long time.

My parents never limited what I read (With the exception of certain books on alien abduction - I had an obsession at about 8 years old and they insisted on preapproving books, as some of them had graphic descriptions of probing and "collecting samples" that they were just not comfortable with me reading) and I thank them for it. They instilled in me a passion for literature and I can only hope that I do the same for DS.

[raksmama]

I think 3 is young for StellaLuna and all the other books you've mentioned.
My son at that ages liked picture books about real things like trucks,trains,cars,animals. Fairy tales frightened him. Even the Walt Disney Bambi scared him. This all changed.

[ollyoxenfree]

Your plan to review books first before you read them to your children (or they read them on their own, which could happen fairly soon) is excellent. I always wanted to know what my children were reading - and still read most of the books they read now that they are teens, although now I often get to them after. It's great for exploring issues and explaining values - even with a 3 y.o.

If your dd is very sensitive, you may have a difficult time finding appropriate books. I hesitate to make suggestions, because I can't recall if there is anything a very sensitive child might find traumatic, but here are a few that I think would be okay:

Jan Brett - Annie and the Wild Animals, The Mitten
Kim Lewis - One Summer Day, First Snow
Crockett Johnston - Harold and the Purple Crayon (Harold goes on an imaginary walk by drawing different scenes, gets a little lost at one point, but finds his way home again).

I think though that books with sad or scary scenes are helpful for children to work through these feelings in a safe way with their parents. It helps develop emotional resilience. I don't think we have to terrify them with books that aren't age appropriate - but children are often surprisingly ready to deal with tough issues. Sometimes, even if they aren't ready, life throws stuff at them.

It would be lovely if we could shelter our children from all bad things. but unfortunately sooner or later they will be confronted by hardship. When my ds was not quite 3, my father became ill and died. If we hadn't already been reading books like Stellaluna, and if he hadn't experienced the concept of loss and separation from family inside the pages of that beautiful book, I think ds would have had an even harder time then.

[Thalia the Muse]

LOL -- Harold and the Purple Crayon creeped me out terribly as a child, because Harold had this power to change reality, but it wasn't RIGHT -- he drew all those windows, but none of them was HIS window ... it gave me the existential terrors, or something.

I think that children are not always upset by the thing we expect to upset them, and your daughter might well find Stellaluna less sad than you do. However, it's kind of long and wordy for a just-turned-three-year-old -- it really is for slightly older children. Even later this year, and certainly next, you'll probably find your twins are ready for stories with more conflict and excitement. I think ther'es a reason why fairytales and children's stories include peril, wickedness, and sadness -- they are a very safe way to explore the world, including those things that are sad, scary, and hard to come to terms with.

Here are some books that very little kids can enjoy, that are very gentle. At three, they don't really even need a plot:

Goodnight, Moon
If You Give a Mouse a Cookie was a great suggestion
Alphabet books -- Eating the Alphabet, On Market Street, Chicka Chicka Boom Boom, etc.
The Carl books (some parents hate these because the dog is a babysitter. He's a really GOOD babysitter, though!)
The Color Kittens
Those Richard Scarry Busy Town types of books
Wynken, Blynken and Nod
Each Peach, Pear, Plum
10 Minutes to Bedtime (This book is adorable)
Papa's Song
Over in the Meadow (there are tons of versions of this, many with gorgeous illlustrations)
The Jesse Bear series