Can Vaccinated People Carry Polio? - Page 3

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

No.

It's not easy.

It's not easy to keep vaccines frozen or refrigerated in the desert or tropics or sub-tropics for days when your donkey dies on the way to a remote mountain village, or when you have them in the district hospital and cannot get the health workers together because of some holiday season and then the freaking power goes out.

It's not EASY to make sure that you've immunized five million people of whom only 10% have ID (if that) and who all lose their vaccination records every rainy season.

It's not EASY to get literally billions of vaccines to the poorest parts of the world when you can't even find a car to transport the head of the local WHO to a government meeting (and having been near someone from WHO trying to get to such a meeting, because someone else took her car!!! to let his wife go grocery shopping!!!) on polio, or AIDS, or malaria.

It's not easy for a health worker to pick up fresh vaccines every day when the place where she picks up vaccines is a two-day walk from her house.

And her husband uses the bike to go to work because her salary won't support the family.

And anyway in that country women don't ride bikes.

And she doesn't have a fridge.

So she just has to pray it stays cool.

It's not easy to get to a refugee camp with only one day's supply of coolant when the rebels are blocking the roads. When the mountain pass is closed due to mudslides and there aren't machines in the country to clean it up, they are coming from the south but for now you just have to wait. And wait. The truck driver's not even eating, you just wait. And it's warm.

Want to do it in winter? The pass is closed, my friend, the pass is closed, and the planes don't fly.

It's not easy AT ALL.

vaccines are obviously not the end all answer to the problem then.. and if these people have been vaccinated 10 times.. thier children vaccinated continuously till the age of 7.. don't you think they've had enough.. maybe instead of vaccines government should spend more money on sanitation and better living conditions.. maybe even education.. but it's cheaper just to vaccinate them.. while you do have some good arguements.. i am sick and tired as vaccines touted as the greatest invention of all time.. considering the outright slap in the face we are experiencing in this country.. our children.. the next generation will spend a lifetime needing medical attention.. our government has put the same corporations that produce your vaccines in charge of making the mandatory ones we have to fight off... to pay for the cheap ones that are distributed in other countries... to offset those costs.. and our children suffer from it.. when vaccines are no longer mandatory and there is a choice.. i would not care if you promote your silly polio vaccine.. for a disease that is for the most part harmless! I personally cannot tolerate most medical proffesions because i am now feeling threatened .. there is no more trust.. the history of vaccination is frought with lies and deciet.. so go spread your opv.. some of those people who you paralyze would never have been paralyzed if it wasn't for that nasty vaccine.. i have no respect for any of it untill i can sleep knowing i will not be yanked out of my house for swine flu and my child will not be scrutinized , and terrorized by my government to take an injection for everything they come out with.. yes i have issues and i am very bias because that industry is no longer trustworthy when i feel threatened because i will not give them a chance to possibly kill my son with a second reaction... yay polio.. if it's not the polio vaccine it will be something else.. there are more disease deserving attention than polio.. and even so.. forceing/coercing populations to participate in pharmaceutical campaignes is WRONG... this vaccine has serious issues... maybe some of those children can still walk because you didn't get to jab them that day..

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by medusaatemydog

vaccines are obviously not the end all answer to the problem then..

Well... yeah. That's why there are billions of dollars donated and spent by caring, loving people to help them get, in addition to vaccines, clean water, insecticide treated nets, anti-virals, schools, electricity, access to credit, human rights education, elections, job training, post-conflict counseling for child soldiers, orphanages with mentoring programs, school feeding programs, health-worker retention programs, community mobilization programs, cultural heritage support programs, winterization programs, and on, and on, and on, and on...

There is not a single country or organization in the entire world, and I say this with total confidence, that does vaccines only with no other preventative or curative program and no social work at all.

Not one.

i am sick and tired as vaccines touted as the greatest invention of all time..

I believe that is the wheel that has been touted as the greatest invention of all time, but I personally am rooting for the lever.

i would not care if you promote your silly polio vaccine.. for a disease that is for the most part harmless!

(a) It's not silly and (b) polio can kill. It's not only the frequency of the risk, it's also the magnitude. The thing is, though complications are somewhat rare (though not unheard of, that's why they invented the iron lung, I mean you can see in pictures that many people amongst fewer than half the present-day population had this problem long before the OPV), they can be so devastating.

Ii have no respect for any of it untill i can sleep knowing i will not be yanked out of my house for swine flu and my child will not be scrutinized

,

I don't even know what you are talking about, to be honest. What does this have to do with the oral polio vaccine given to people in the poorest parts of the world, who do not have access to clean water or medical care?

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

I believe that is the wheel that has been touted as the greatest invention of all time, but I personally am rooting for the lever.

I would be rooting for the lever too. Not such a fan of that wheel.

(a) It's not silly and (b) polio can kill. It's not only the frequency of the risk, it's also the magnitude. The thing is, though complications are somewhat rare (though not unheard of, that's why they invented the iron lung, I mean you can see in pictures that many people amongst fewer than half the present-day population had this problem long before the OPV), they can be so devastating.

I think polio is a hugely misunderstood disease. And to be honest I do not know if anyone will ever be able to know just what caused the huge outbreaks in the first half of the last century.
The standard treament for polio has very problematic roots. The understanding of the disease was so wrong 100 years ago. The medical establishment actually thought that some muscles were paralysied and others were healthy, and the healthy muslces were pulling the paralysed muscles creating contractures. Hence the protocol of splinting for months. To prevent contracture. As someone who made splints for some years, I know just how absolutely devastating they can be when applied for more than a couple of weeks. They create contractures. And I know that they are mostly contraindicated for muscle tone.

Along came Sister Kenny from Australia and suggested that the 'healthy' muscle was in fact not healthy and was in spasm and revolutionized the treatment. She did have some unusual terminology to describe the clinical picture, but she knew what she was doing and taught it to many - mostly in the USA.
,
Some people do excrete vdpv for years, although I have understood it to be mostly in immune compromised individuals. This is the biggest barrier to stopping mass OPV use, as the vdpv's are still in circulation, and can circulate for years.

To the OP - if you do not want to vaccinate, read up what you can about how the disease is contracted, in which kind of children does it typically become invasive and how best to protect yourselves with tools other than vaccines. The information is there.
Every vaccine carries a risk. It is not the risk free option, no matter how scary the disease is.

[Sailor]

I think your original question got lots of answers ... so I'll just share my approach/experience. I never got the polio vaccine. I remember I was going to get it, and this was the oral version, and at the time, they were out of it at the office. I never went back for it.

Here is the gist with the vaccine debate: you will find arguments for both sides. You will find arguments that have scientific studies on both sides. Your BEST bet is to find the source of those studies - in other words, who is funding them and who benefits best from the outcome of the studies. I always look for that. If you can take a statistical analysis course ... it also really comes in handy in interpreting data. It's amazing how easily one can skew statistics without invalidating them.

And then make your decision based on that. If you can find an MD, who is also a holistic doctor, and who is not mired in mainstream answers ... then you've found gold. Speak with them about your concerns.

Here is what I'm comfortable with - being unvaxed, and not vaxing. I've traveled to India, I've traveled to all kinds of places where civilization is pretty much gone. I've stayed in extremely primitive situations. I don't even bother to check what vaccines are recommended - I just go.

Would I do this with a newborn? No. Would I do this with, say, a 5 year old child - yes.

[ema-adama]

No one knows why only a small percentage of infections lead to paralysis. Several key risk factors have been identified as increasing the likelihood of paralysis in a person infected with polio. These include:

* immune deficiency
* pregnancy
* removal of the tonsils (tonsillectomy)
* intramuscular injections
* strenuous exercise
* injury

http://www.polioeradication.org/risk.asp

If you are concerned about the vaccine and want to protect your child, the above list may help understand which part of the child population is at risk for polio infection/serious complications from polio virus. Of course you would have to then decide if your child falls into any of those risk groups, and what you can do to minimise falling into those risk groups, other than vaccination.

I hope that helps.

ETA: IMO this concerns shedding from OPV and VDPV's as well as wild polio virus

[carriebft]

medusaatemydog-

I think you must have not read many of my posts here. I believe that every family has to make their own decision because each family has different circumstances. My family and our situation has lead us to do MMR, Hib, IPV and DTaP. It is true that we are considering others and that we will do others at a later time (such as Hep B).

Again, we live near each other. I would love to get together and chat sometime. We both post here on mothering, so I assume we have some parenting ideals in common! We already both feel choice is important and vaccines should never be mandatory.

feel free to PM me and please know that I am not attacking, in any way, "who you are." I don't even know you!

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Surromommy

I am just trying like heck to find research on this. Can those who are vaccinated against Polio become carriers? The reason I am asking is because while we live in the US, my mothers live in northern India where Polio is still prevalent. They have their vaccinations against it, but I can't find any information on whether or not they could be carriers. My daughter is unvaccinated and I would prefer her to stay that way if my parents don't pose a risk to her. Thoughts? Research? Thanks.

I see you have a lot of responses but I only have time to answer so it may be a repeat.

If your parents got the OPV they are carriers of the virus for about 2 weeks. Someone would have to come in contact with their stool and get infected.

If they get the IPV, they are not carriers.

From what I've read the vaccines do protect but it's questioned whether it truly is the polio virus that causes most of the paralysis. In India they use a lot of sprays for fruit and vegetables which are outlawed in Europe and the US, and take little or no precautions. Those sprays are neurotoxin and of course cause paralysis in children. No vaccine protects against that.

The actual virus was never anything to be concerned about. Most people who had contact with the virus (and in the pre-vax era that was most everyone) never had any symptoms.

It is now claimed that we have eliminated the virus and thus polio is gone. But at the same time as the vaccine came on the market, they also banned DDT sprays and a few others that they knew caused most of the paralysis.

How do we know the virus is eliminated? We simply don't test for any antibodies in the individuals.

Several years ago an Amish child was tested for all sort of diseases, among them Polio. She did not have polio BUT she did have antibodies. So, what that tells me is that if we test more people we may see that the virus (which was never a problem) is circulating as it always was. Who knows?

I would absolutely not worry about my child being in contact with anyone from India or any other part of the world. Just as we would never worry traveling with a healthy unaltered immune system which is your best defense against all infections.

We just don't believe in FAITH-BASED medicine as modern medicine is mostly.

[Gitti]

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxin...des_polio.html

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/01-01-05.htm

http://www.vaclib.org/basic/polio.htm (Looks like in India even Coke etc. contain harmful pesticides. No wonder they still have childhood paralysis.)

http://www.*********/v/gaublomme1.html (this is a good start into the actual cause of Polio)

And since we are on the subject, this is a really great paper on the Polio Vaccine and the contamination thereof which causes cancer to this day -

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_13.htm