Do you live / could you live on $14,000 a year? - Page 8

[AlwaysByMySide]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

Wow, even for an older house that is amazingly inexpensive.

I pay more than that for just real estate taxes.

Like I said in a previous post, the good Lord has provided. 1400 square feet, built in the 70's, nobody wanted to touch it because of the fact that it had no flooring and no central heat/air. I purchased for under $100K, and have a 5% interest rate, no money down. (Houses at that price were on the market for DAYS a couple of months ago. This one sat for two weeks, they brought the price down, two weeks more and I got them to lower the price a little bit more and pay closing costs, and I bought it.) I have ugly linoleum in the kitchen and bathrooms, I had to immediately replace one toilet, get flooring down, and the water heater is from the 80's, and I'm expecting it to go any day now. But it's a roof over our heads, and that's what matters to me.

Apartments in my area go for about the same price, for a 2br, no garage, no yard, etc., but they do have HVAC. I also have pets, and finding an apartment that would allow the pets and cost less than $700/month was next to impossible.

I did very well in my 20s and now face these issues only because I became a mother and have a todder in day care. If I'd had this level of marital issues in my 20s when I had a full time job, good income, and no children, I could have left my husband and not batted an eye.

AMEN. I had a career in my early 20's. I married into the military, we moved twice, I got pregnant. We had some marital issues when I was pregnant with #1, I should have left then, but facing single motherhood is SCARY. We got back together, I got pregnant with #2, and most of you from the single parenting board know how this story ends. I had $30,000 in savings that went to legal fees due to what happened next (and I'm not even divorced yet, because I can't afford the cost to have him served the papers in another state!!) I spent a LOT of time earlier this year feeling hopeless. Somehow, it's all working out. It WILL work out. But it's definitely hard, I admit that I am envious of the people who can just go out to eat and not think twice about it, or put their kids in gymnastics or dance classes and not think twice about it. I used to be able to do that. I've come to accept that I can't anymore. It's one thing if you are in a two-income household. It's a whole other ballgame for those of us who aren't.

I keep hearing on MDC to think about assistance programs for child care, housing, food and there is a chorus of voices saying this. It makes sense to me, but when I look at the programs available, the income brackets - just like you said - don't really allow for work! And I can't make it work without a job. I really, really can't.

Here's what's really funny about being on TANF, at least in my state. You have to be working to qualify for it. I own two online businesses that I run from my home, and I work 10 hours a week outside the house. If in any given month they don't add up to minimum wage for 30 hours a week, and/or I can't prove that I spent the other X hours looking for gainful employment, I'm kicked off TANF for not working. (Thus, we never qualify for TANF.)

BUT, if I go get a job (with a degree, like I said, I'm looking at $28K-ish in my area), I no longer qualify for the subsidy (which doesn't completely pay for childcare...and depending on which daycare you use, it could mean the difference between $20/week and $80/week PER CHILD).

And I have no clue how the people who are working full-time and qualify for WIC ever make it to their appointments. I work two days a week, they don't have WIC on one of my off days, and then it's first come first serve for the following day's appointments. No night hours. At the very least, the food stamp office does phone appointments now, so there isn't the hassle of trucking everyone downtown to wait four hours (which is what I had to do the first time I applied.)

Section 8, in my area, does housing vouchers. They ran out of money and the waitlist is 2 years long. No help there. It's very disheartening. Technically, the assistance is there. Once you start digging, well, it's not as easy as it seems to get it.

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama

If you significantly cut how much you are making are you not going to have a decrease in tax return as well? Or am I missing something here?

It's been my experience that they more I make the less I get back at least in years past. I do my SIL's taxes. Same exeptions but thier income was $12000 less than ours (they made $20000 and we made $32000) and they got back $2000 more than we did.

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide

And I have no clue how the people who are working full-time and qualify for WIC ever make it to their appointments. it.

Depends on the days and hours you work. I have never had a problem making it to appointments because I have never had a job where I worked "business hours"

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide

I purchased for under $100K, and have a 5% interest rate, no money down.

You live in a low-tax area as well if your mortage for a $100k home with no money down is less than $1000 per month. I think you said it was around $550. So you're paying only about $50 a month in real estate taxes????

That blows my mind.

My first house cost around $100k and we had a 20% down payment (many years ago). Our mortage payment was $900.

High real estate taxes add to the cost of living in many areas. The average assessed house here pays about $5,000 a year real estate taxes. That's what? More than $400 per month (before tax deductions, yes, but still a considerable amount).

[ILuvMyBaby]

MA is so expensive...there is no way we could live on 14,000

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by ILuvMyBaby

MA is so expensive...there is no way we could live on 14,000

Right! It really depends on where you live.

There is no way you could live in most parts of MA, or all of New England, for that matter on $14k per year.

It would be most difficult.

[~pi]

Originally Posted by siobhang

The other thing too is that the *choice* to live on $14K a year is a privilege. My ex-boyfriend right after college was all proud of himself for living on under $8K a year by living in a squat. My mom (who grew up dirt poor) ripped into him one day for comparing himself to the poor families he lived next to because as she said "did you ever ask those families if THEY have chosen to live like this? Because, Mr. Ivy League educated, white upper middle class man, you can leave whenever you get tired of it. And they can't."

I'm sure it's possible for a family to live on 14k, though there could be some serious sacrifices, especially if you don't have job benefits with health care. I have done it, though not with kids, and I live in a place with universal health care.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of people who are living on 14k or less would prefer to have the option of greater financial flexibility.

OP, IME, the biggest deal is housing. If you can find inexpensive housing (mortgage: less likely; rental: more likely, especially if you are willing to live in a small place; shared housing: much more likely), you can usually make everything else work out.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by ~pi

OP, IME, the biggest deal is housing. If you can find inexpensive housing (mortgage: less likely; rental: more likely, especially if you are willing to live in a small place; shared housing: much more likely), you can usually make everything else work out.

I totally, totally agree.

Housing is the one expense that is hard for me to control. I have a very tight budget for nearly all other things. Housing costs are so variable depending on where you live, and where I live is quite expensive. I often find that the taxes alone that I pay for real estate exceed what other people's entire mortgage payment is!

That's life in a high tax, high COL state, though.

I guess I have to say, though, that I get really tired of threads like these where people chime in that they indeed live on $14k, and live well, and then go on to say that they bought their home from a relative, or they inherited land or their relatives helped contribute to their down payment.

That's not living on $14k then. That's living on $14k plus whatever else was already inputted.

It's easier to stretch $14k annually if your housing costs were reduced in some way.

If grandma and grandpa are picking up the majority of the costs of kids' clothing, pre-school, music class, etc, that makes a huge difference too.

DH and I have paid for pretty much everything ourselves from our own earnings. DH's parents buy a few gifts for our child for birthday and Christmas but that's it. My parents contribute nothing, not even gifts.

We've been on the other end - having to financially assist others in our family who were downtrodden and not able to purchase even enough food. I know there are others on MDC who help support their extended families, and that is a real drain on a budget. It would be impossible to live on $14k with these kinds of family scenarios.

[bobandjess99]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

DH and I have paid for pretty much everything ourselves from our own earnings. DH's parents buy a few gifts for our child for birthday and Christmas but that's it. My parents contribute nothing, not even gifts.

We've been on the other end - having to financially assist others in our family who were downtrodden and not able to purchase even enough food. I know there are others on MDC who help support their extended families, and that is a real drain on a budget. It would be impossible to live on $14k with these kinds of family scenarios.

That's a great point. We haven't been helped in a grandiose way, like with a downpayment, or free house, car, or whatever, but my parents DO buy the children gifts, which, if we truly needed to be uber-frugal, could be nearly 100% of the clothing and toys my kids would need for the year. I get hand-me-down clothes from relatives and friends also.

[AlwaysByMySide]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

You live in a low-tax area as well if your mortage for a $100k home with no money down is less than $1000 per month. I think you said it was around $550. So you're paying only about $50 a month in real estate taxes????

That blows my mind.

I'd have to go find my paperwork to find the exact breakdown. But my mortgage payment every month is $550, and that's mortgage, HOI, and taxes.

I live just outside the annexed city limits. Thus, I do not get trash pickup or recycling pickup, and whatever else makes people who live within the city limits (annexed or otherwise) special. I can live with that. The difference in taxes out of the city limits is a notable difference, and is advertised around here on real estate listings.

Depends on the days and hours you work. I have never had a problem making it to appointments because I have never had a job where I worked "business hours"

I work Mondays and Wednesdays from 9 - 2. Our WIC cuts off appointments at 2pm, because it takes 3 hours to shuffle you through all the people. (Yes, 3 hours is about the norm.) They don't do WIC on Tuesdays. That leaves Thursdays and Fridays. At our office, you have to call the day before you want an appointment, and it's first come first served. I have two kids, which makes getting an appointment harder, because they have to have spots for both of them, for whatever type of appointment it is (recert or just a voucher pickup). The office opens the exact same time we leave the house for me to get to work on Wednesdays, and inevitably, I never manage to get an appointment on Thursdays. If I'm lucky, I can get in on a Friday, but sometimes it takes me several weeks to get an appointment, and so there are gaps in our vouchers, because of how they do it.

But then they say that I'm lucky to get free food anyway, so I shouldn't complain. :

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

I guess I have to say, though, that I get really tired of threads like these where people chime in that they indeed live on $14k, and live well, and then go on to say that they bought their home from a relative, or they inherited land or their relatives helped contribute to their down payment.

That's not living on $14k then.

I agree. Or they're getting health care through Medicaid. And food stamps. And SCHIP for the kids. Etc.

Not that for a second I begrudge anyone using those services. I would gladly pay higher taxes to expand them to more people. But claiming to "live on" 14K (or whatever it is) while having what are for the rest of us major expenses paid for, is disengenuous.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by zinemama

I agree. Or they're getting health care through Medicaid. And food stamps. And SCHIP for the kids. Etc.

Not that for a second I begrudge anyone using those services. I would gladly pay higher taxes to expand them to more people. But claiming to "live on" 14K (or whatever it is) while having what are for the rest of us major expenses paid for, is disengenuous.

Yes, thank you for mentioning that. I meant to add that, as well. Those services add up to dollar amounts.

So, growing up my mom always made less than $12,000 per year and that was in assistance as it was, but she got free government healthcare, free government subsidized housing, she got a government paid for stipend for utilities, and she got food stamps.

So, she wasn't really living on $12,000. It was probably more like $20,000 or maybe even $25,000.

Originally Posted by zinemama

Not that for a second I begrudge anyone using those services. I would gladly pay higher taxes to expand them to more people. But claiming to "live on" 14K (or whatever it is) while having what are for the rest of us major expenses paid for, is disengenuous.

Yes, me too! I grew up on that kind of assistance and will be eternally grateful for the social safety net that existed. I gladly pay my taxes (high taxes at that) because I know the good they serve (yes, there is waste but by and large it goes for good and necessary services).

I'm a big supporter of government, on both the receiving end and the giving end.



I believe in a compassionate and equalizing society. I'd love to see universal health care. That we don't already have that is a crying shame in my opinion.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

That's a great point. We haven't been helped in a grandiose way, like with a downpayment, or free house, car, or whatever, but my parents DO buy the children gifts, which, if we truly needed to be uber-frugal, could be nearly 100% of the clothing and toys my kids would need for the year. I get hand-me-down clothes from relatives and friends also.

It does make a pretty big difference, and is a blessing.

I have a wide circle of friends, close and not so close, who have children the same age as mine and whose husbands make far less than mine does and who do not work outside of the home like I do.

And so when I see them with something I've been saving up for for a while, such as a jogging stroller or the like, I always ask them if they got a deal or found a bargain, and invariably I get an answer like, "oh, my parents bought it for us for Christmas."

It does make it easier to get by on one income with a SAHP or, say, $14k when there is a network of support, including hand me downs, gifts, or even cash.

I knew a few women with newborns who didn't have to buy a thing because they got gently used hand-me-downs for everything whereas DH and I outlayed quite a bit of savings buying everything ourselves.

I've also found that I just don't buy as much. For instance, my child has way less toys than almost every kid we know. Sometimes I feel bad about that, but then I think about how we're still in the black, and don't have the clutter. Simplicity is a virtue unto itself. And kids don't play with toys for very long anyway. Already toys that we bought a year or two ago are developmentally inappropriate. I'm glad we didn't buy a bunch more. We have one medium sized basket of toys in the bedroom and one medium sized basket of toys in the living room, and that is basically it for toys.

So my child is usually pretty excited when we go over to other people's houses. "Look at all the toys!" is usually what I hear.

[SAHDS]

We did for 6 months (prorated, $7k for 1/2 year) after DH got out of the Marines. In the Marines he made just over ($17k) but for the 6 months after, he maybe made $6k. We had very low rent ($550), used Wic, had free medical care for our children, no cable, no cell phones, no eating out, hand-me-downs and thrift, cut every corner, etc.

[Purplehaze]

one possible budget....

something I am considering... it is close to that but $325 a week after taxes, that comes to $16,900 a year if you include the 5 week months. If you only did the math as $325 x 4 then it would be $1300 a month.

Mortgage (mortgage and taxes) $427
Food $280 ($70 a week)
Gas $120 ($30 a week)
Phone and internet $35
utils (water and lights/utilty bill) $160
Spending/Misc $100
Savings 100
Insurance (car, house and life) $78
______________
Total = $1300

Tight but doable... All things take advance planning... having savings is esential. No money for extra kids activities, lots of library programs tho... For kids b-day or holiday gifts ask for things kids need- shoes, sheets, blankets, commbined family membership to museum is something I am asking for this Christmas. Participate in Freecycle. Free or no pre school... Shop tag sales and thrift shops for most clothing, house needs... other then what could be gotten from Freecycle. Find out more about local free clothing swaps. A garden would help- even some plants in pots... trac phone from wal-mart (get doubleminutesfor life phone) and use spending money to buy minutes as needed -looking online for bonus mins...

This plan does not include any assistance programs but at this income level we would qualify for WIC and energy assistance, free pre school and maybe food stamps. If I did, then I would spend less on food and more money could go to savings or be put on the insunrance, or to home repairs.

I think it is doable... but it all hinges on 2 things... or 3...
1 a cheap rent or mortgage
2 freedom from being tied to things... "my SO has to have ......" Cable TV or dish or soda/beer/wine or what ever, if you can't afford it....
3 willingness to be creative... when the washer breaks, while waiting to get one from Freecycle, being willing to wash in buckets with a clean plunger... taking advantage of your abilties to make gifts for friends and family from...

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by SAHDS

We did for 6 months (prorated, $7k for 1/2 year) after DH got out of the Marines. In the Marines he made just over ($17k) but for the 6 months after, he maybe made $6k. We had very low rent ($550), used Wic, had free medical care for our children, no cable, no cell phones, no eating out, hand-me-downs and thrift, cut every corner, etc.

That was a number of years ago, though, right?

I think 10 years ago I could have made it on $14k in lower cost areas. In some ways, with small children, it might actually be easier for two parents to make it on $14k than for one parent to make it on $14k if there are no day care costs.

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

That was a number of years ago, though, right?

I think 10 years ago I could have made it on $14k in lower cost areas. In some ways, with small children, it might actually be easier for two parents to make it on $14k than for one parent to make it on $14k if there are no day care costs.

Very true, it was about 9 years ago but in a Very HCOL area. I've always SAH too so we never had those childcare costs but we did have the added costs that come with SAH (more utility use, more food costs).

[simplespirit]

Originally Posted by dancebaraka

dh and I made a bit over 13,000 last year. We live in a small apartment that is paid for though, have low bills, no debt (besides very manageable student loans), and drive cars that are also paid for. I really enjoy living this way... we are often cash poor, but our life is very rich. I am grateful for the opportunity to live this way, because I know how hard it is with debts and high bills always looming. I dunno how one would do this with a mortgage higher than say $250 a month. Some friends had a mortgage on another apt. in our complex and I think they were only paying like $158 or so. We downsized last year, and bought this place outright for $78,000. In the past, I lived out in a shack in the woods cuz it was $300 I made it beautiful, though, and adored living there.

I think it's important to remember that it is simply easier to live in certain areas of the country than others. I share an office space and get half of every week for $125 a month.. and it is really a very fresh, beautiful, trendy space. I know some would spit their drink out hearing that they are used to office spaces being like $600 and up for something comparable.

A few other things that make this lifestyle work for us:
We have a lot of family around us and a strong community. I trade a lot, and I use coupons to get so much of what we need for free. I maximise everything. I ask for what I need. I keep my eyes open and find what I need around me .. And we get spoiled. Farming friends give us food sometimes, or my sister has us over for a meal, or dd's grandma buys her clothes pretty frequently. dd gets enough of the things she needs from special occasions that we just don't consume stuff. We reuse a lot of others folks clothes. For Solstice, for example, we filled a stocking for dd (reused one of ours from our childhood).. I put in a few things she needed and a few things from craft trades. For her birthday, I put away most of her gifts for later... she just doesn't need so much constant stuff. I have like 5 new things waiting in the wings for her right now I take care of the people around me and do what I can for them, and I am always cared for too.

I wonder where you live and if you could maybe make some drastic changes in order to funnel the $ you do have towards getting completely free of debt? Are there resources that maybe you haven't thought of yet?

Good Luck and Deep Peace to you~

I loved this entire post! During the first 13 years of our marriage, dh and I lived in a little dump by the tracks (We called it the rattle shack) with our babies coming one at a time...we had four in eight years and they all slept in the bedroom and we slept in the livingroom. We had a eat-in kitchen, our clothes hanging in the bathroom and a dirt basement... we were so happy. In 1987, the house cost us just $18000. we shared a car and when dh was at work, the kids and i walked everywhere. There were years we made nearly $20,000 with dh's overtime... but usually, it was much less. Those were the happiest days of my life

Blessed Be

[Ruthiegirl]

Years ago, dh and I lived on close to $17,000 a year in Massachusetts. We were cold, hungry, exhausted form working, and beaten down by poverty.

I can't imagine $14,000. Actually, I can, but I don't want to.

[Ruthiegirl]

And I don't mean to be unkind. I speak only from experience and I found that it was very hard to live with little money in an high cost of living area. We suffered miserably in the winter, unable to pay for heat and eating ramen noodles and eggs for weeks on end. Our pipes froze and we were responsible for paying to have them repaired.


If I had to live on less now, I could set myself up to live well with little. I could sell my house, buy something outright. I would plan on having a little land to farm for food and extra income. I would have chickens, I would plan to cut wood for heat. I would PLAN for less money.

And I would be thrilled with that lifestyle. A simple life with simple pleasures....bliss. A life of gut wrenching poverty, hunger, bills and fear...not so great.