Save my family, ye wise mamas!

[VisionaryMom]

We're not doing something/anything right, and I need help! As background, DS(4YO) is being evaluated by a psychologist. DH and I have an appt Thursday for "results," so we know there's something going on here. But...we need to figure out what to do.

DS has cried and/or screamed for the following reasons I can think of today:
- woke up and cried b/c DH tossed an old toothbrush (he cried about this just before bed last night, and it was the first thing he said this morning)

- didn't get to give DH 2 sets of good-bye hugs/kisses

- I served scrambled eggs & melba toast for breakfast. He wanted pancakes.

- His sister climbed into the car/her carseat faster than him. (this is an everyday thing, happened about 3 times today)

- He got a muffin at a coffee shop. Though he picked the type of muffin, he was playing when the girl working bagged it, so he didn't get to pick the *specific* muffin from the display case.

- We bought an egg bagel for lunch. (We don't normally eat out everyday, though it looks like it here.) It was cut in half and wrapped in wax paper. He didn't want it cut in half.

- He didn't want to stay with the babysitter. (DH and I are in marriage counseling, and we had an appointment.)

- He wanted to sit by me instead of DH at dinner. (It's usually the opposite. We helped him move his things; it's more the meltdown beforehand that worries me.)

- He wanted to get 3 turns at a game to every 1 turn DD got.

- We asked him to let DD ride his bike.

- We told him we had to go home from the park. (We do a 5-minute warning.)

- When we read bedtime stories, DD was sitting where he wanted to be.

- Our sitter said he cried "a few" times with her (~2 hours). One was because she locked the door when they were leaving to take DD to gymnastics, and he wanted her to go back and unlock it and let him do it.

The muffin incident was drawn out and humiliating (for me, anyway). There's a door between the coffee shop and a bookstore. He ran into the bookstore. I talked him back to the coffee shop, but then he ran into a corner and balled up in it crying. I had to talk to him and get him to stand up/calm down. We walked outside, and he freaked out. He started running, so I caught up to him. (Luckily, DD just follows along.)

I picked him up and told him we needed to go because I had some things I had to get done. He started kicking and screaming. I put him down and hugged him to me until he seemed to calm down. Then I talked to him. He just screamed that I should make DD eat the muffin and buy him another one. I told him we weren't doing that, and he ran again, this time across an alley that has traffic.

So I picked up him and carried him to the car while he screamed and slapped me in the face repeatedly. Getting them in the car was tough. I opened DD's door while holding him. (Every time I tried to let him down, he'd start to take off again.) Once DD was in, I put the things in my hands (coffee and his craft from preschool) in the car. I then sat him down and tried to talk to him to no avail. I had to try to get DD buckled and then get him in while continually locking the doors because he kept unlocking them saying he was running away. Once we all were in the car, DD said, "here's your muffin." (This is so common it doesn't even faze her anymore.) He threw it across the car. We started moving.

About half a mile later, he said very calmly, "can I have the juice I bought now?" He acts as if nothing happened while I cringe at the number of people who know us and were downtown.

I'm tired and drained. I feel like a complete failure as his mother. What do we do?

[GuildJenn]

I'm not minimizing your feelings/experience or anything but a lot of what you're describing wouldn't necessarily be atypical for my son... maybe the degree of kicking and so on, but not the things that upset your child. This is my kind of checklist:

- did he get enough sleep?
- did he eat good meals/a good breakfast and have snacks that included some protein? (The juice alone would set my son off.)
- was the routine off?
- did he get good quality connection time in the morning or as early as possible? (our routine starts with reading a book in bed, most mornings)
- did we laugh together before 10 am?
- were my expectations laid out clearly? With my son advance notification of things helps a -lot-. For example "now the lady is going to pick your muffin!" or "when we play a game we take turns" (obviously you gave a warning at the park, just running through my list)

In the moment:
- I just found out about this technique that I think I've stumbled on accidentally. It's the four part denial. Acknowledge the want, tell them no, acknowledge the feeling, offer alternative.

Just tossing out ideas.

[Starflower]

DD has reacted to all the things you've described as well, but not always as intensely, and she usually calms down fairly quickly these days. She is 6.

I've found good info in the "Spirited Child" series by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, and I also recommend "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" by the same author. She describes personality traits in a fair amount of detail in that one, including some of the "spirited" traits as well as a chapter when to seek a medical or psychological eval. She has another one about sleep and how missing sleep can cause the types of behavior you've described.

I hope you are able to find some helpful information from the psych eval. It's so hard to figure out what's at the root of things when they are little. Good luck!

[~PurityLake~]

Brandi, your son sounds just like my Abigail. She has improved quite a bit the past couple of months. The kicking she has not done, but the rest sounds like the same things she's done for the same reasons. What has worked for me is to remain calm (not easy) and acknowledge her wants, restate what is going to happen, validate her emotions/reactions, and move on with or without her cooperation. Her desire to be included means she often has changed her tune on her own in order to rejoin whatever activity she withdrew herself from.

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I'm not minimizing your feelings/experience or anything but a lot of what you're describing wouldn't necessarily be atypical for my son... maybe the degree of kicking and so on, but not the things that upset your child. This is my kind of checklist:

- did he get enough sleep?
- did he eat good meals/a good breakfast and have snacks that included some protein? (The juice alone would set my son off.)
- was the routine off?
- did he get good quality connection time in the morning or as early as possible? (our routine starts with reading a book in bed, most mornings)
- did we laugh together before 10 am?
- were my expectations laid out clearly? With my son advance notification of things helps a -lot-. For example "now the lady is going to pick your muffin!" or "when we play a game we take turns" (obviously you gave a warning at the park, just running through my list)

In the moment:
- I just found out about this technique that I think I've stumbled on accidentally. It's the four part denial. Acknowledge the want, tell them no, acknowledge the feeling, offer alternative.

Just tossing out ideas.

Excellent advice, GuildJenn.

[momma_unlimited]

Looking at your post I see almost all of the things he tantrums over seem to be about control- him wanting to be in control or do it himself.

Can you pick special times of the day to role play and magnify for him his sense of feeling powerful and in charge? Play a game where he sets the rules or he calls the shots (mother may I, for instance?). And for all sorts of seemingly normal things he does do for himself, help bring it to his awareness that *he* did it. "Look at you, you put your shoes on all by yourself" etc.

I think other great ways to get through to my 4 yo is through finger puppets where we role play a scenario that didn't go well for us and he helps me solve the puppets dispute (it removes us from the heat of our own emotions).

Today we had a talk about controlling our emotions- maybe you can try this angle with your DS since he seems to want to be in charge/control his circumstances a little more. Today DS said to me "Mommy, you're making me mad!" And I explained that no one can *make* you mad, that your emotions try to boss you around and tell you how you have to be but you can tell them "I don't have to choose to be mad just because my angry feelings come, I can decide to be sweet to my mommy no matter what, and I can tell her I don't like something she said or does without those angry feelings bossing me around". He thought this was funny and then started doing all sorts of little gestures, waving his hands and making faces, trying to "boss his feelings around". He stopped being upset with me, anyways, so I guess it worked, even if by distraction!

Also, my kids don't have any diagnosed food sensitivities, but we notice they get whacked out when they eat processed wheat or sugar- so when we need to be out in public and buy food I try to give them non wheat items (I know its tough!). Could you try a 2 week wheat/sugar elimination and see if it helps?

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by Starflower

DD has reacted to all the things you've described as well, but not always as intensely, and she usually calms down fairly quickly these days. She is 6.

I've found good info in the "Spirited Child" series by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, and I also recommend "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" by the same author. She describes personality traits in a fair amount of detail in that one, including some of the "spirited" traits as well as a chapter when to seek a medical or psychological eval. She has another one about sleep and how missing sleep can cause the types of behavior you've described.

I hope you are able to find some helpful information from the psych eval. It's so hard to figure out what's at the root of things when they are little. Good luck!

I read the Spirited Child book this summer and the incidents you describe sound like they're word for word out of this book! She's got some great ideas to help you avoid melt-downs, teach coping skills to deal with the intense emotions, and I think the most helpful, immediate thing for you might be to see that you're not alone in this!!!

[BellinghamCrunchie]

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene would be a good book to check out. Its about how to parent children that are chronically inflexible and rigid in their thinking/desires. http://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Chil...1824051&sr=8-1

All of the things you mentioned are not at all unusual for a 4 year old. However, it sounds like the frequency and intensity are more severe than for most children that age.

[paniscus]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene would be a good book to check out. Its about how to parent children that are chronically inflexible and rigid in their thinking/desires. http://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Chil...1824051&sr=8-1

All of the things you mentioned are not at all unusual for a 4 year old. However, it sounds like the frequency and intensity are more severe than for most children that age.

I second this one! I really like the Sprited Child book also but The Explosive Child was even better IMO. DS (also 4yo) likes control and knowing what to expect also and things tend to flair up when some area of his life is out of control. I find giving him as many little "jobs" he can do by himself help out - make toast, take out compost, sweep (even if I have to go behind him after he goes to bed), get plates for breakfast,etc. ANYTHING I can think of where he has total control of it.

[Surfacing]

:

[madskye]

That was a pretty basic day for us last year. DD was 3. Pretty much the whole year was challenging. Literally right around her 4th birthday everything lightened up and got much easier. I chalk it up to last year being a big year for learning boundaries, manners, and how to interact. But everyone develops differently so perhaps 4 is his year for

Has it always been like this? DD was a dream baby 1, 2 --until 3! So all the tantrums and hitting and anger really worried me. But it did pass.

I don't have any advice for you, only commiseration and just to hold out a little hope that perhaps this is just a truly miserable stage that you will all get through.

[cowboyjunki]

My nephew is exactly like this - he is almost 7 now and is much easier, but he still has his moments. I don't have any real advice, only hugs. I often say that my sister is his mom for a reason because she seems to handle him much better than I could or than anyone else I know could. One thing she is great at is remaining calm (well, most of the time!) and being very patient, which it sounds like you are doing!

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by madskye

Has it always been like this?

Grr. The computer ate a long response. In short, yes it's always been this way. He's been this intense since birth (seriously), and I've just hit a wall in dealing with him. Everyone says I have so much patience and understanding with him, but I'm emotionally drained right now. I'm literally shaking or crying everyday dealing with him. I'm terrified of him going to school next year. We're on the verge of losing our sitter because she cannot deal with the tantrums. DH...is disconnected. He said this weekend that he feels hopeless about our family.

Sleep has been a constant issue for Jayden. He's never slept a normal amount. I can tell when he's sleep-deprived, but he has the meltdowns regardless.

As for food, I struggle. I want to be all organic/whole foods. I grew up that way, for Pete's sake, and it certainly wasn't trendy then. I just don't know how to have the time for a radically altered diet while still dealing with everything else. We were CF for 18 months because of some medical issues DS had, and his behavior didn't improve. We've gone without juice for a few months, and it didn't do anything either. He doesn't get a ton of sugar - more than I'd like, but definitely not too much. I'm willing to try GF/SF, but DH is not. I would appreciate any well-documented links I can get him to read. He believes DS has to learn to handle his emotions regardless of what he's been eating, and because of our schedules, I need him on-board with any food changes I make right now.

I will try some games with him. Role-playing has tanked in the past, but I will try it again.

I do try to let him have control over as much as possible, but he wants to control every aspect of his environment to the point of wanting me to undo something to let him re-do it. With the muffin example in the OP, he normally does pick the muffin he wants. It's not a problem for him to do it, but that day he started playing with DD while we were checking out. At the library, he ran out of the door the other day. While I went to chase him, our librarian checked out his books for him. (His card was on the counter with our stuff.) He totally freaked on the librarian because he wanted to scan his own card. He was screaming horrible things at Walter and crying, falling in the floor, going limp when I tried to pick him up. It was awful! Luckily (or maybe not), I'm at the library often, and most of the staff members know we have these issues with DS.

Are these behaviors really normal? I'll look at Spirited Child and Explosive Child. I checked out Unconditional Parenting yesterday. Though I've read reviews and think it's probably how I feel intuitively about parenting, I need some reassurance right now. I need to know that the authoritarian, fear-based parenting DH and I both had growing up isn't good or healthy. Right now a modicum of respect would be wonderful. I'm so tired of being told I'm hated, stupid, and unloved by DS. I know he doesn't understand, but I am his biggest advocate. I've had major blow-ups with several family members because of their comments about his behavior. We've had to cut off some friends at my insistence because of their reactions to him. Even DH is starting to lose it. I don't want to sound like a martyr here. I'm not. I haven't been perfect in handling him, but I'm so tired and hurt right now.

[beanma]

Brandi, definitely check out Kids, Parents and Power Struggles and/or Spirited Child. I liked KPP better, but that may be because I read it first. There is some repitition between the two. The Explosive Child is another very good read.

I like Unconditional Parenting, but I don't think that's the one you need here. Alfie doesn't go into too much in the way of practical solutions to tantrum situations. He's more of a theory guy. You're going to get more practical info from Kurcinka and Greene (Explosive Child). In the meantime there are a couple of websites from the Explosive Child people that might be helpful to you:

www.thinkkids.org
www.explosivechild.com

Kurcinka has a website, too, but I don't think it's as helpful as her books.

Good luck!

[robinia]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

I'm willing to try GF/SF, but DH is not. I would appreciate any well-documented links I can get him to read.

Hope you don't mind a suggestion from a newbie. This sounds a lot like DS last year before we found out about salicylate intolerance (thank goodness for MDC!) We found Sue Dengate's Fed Up book incredibly helpful - http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/ You mentioned that cutting out juice didn't make a difference, so perhaps it isn't relevant, but it might be worth a read; the information is well documented and draws on material from the allergy unit of a respected public hospital. In our case, we cut out orange juice, tomatoes and strawberries and had a consistently happier kid within a week. The effect was so significant that we really felt that we'd been unfair to expect him to behave well when he was so affected by his food.

[One_Girl]

He may be reacting to the stress level in the house. You wrote that you and your H are in marriage counseling and the things that create that need are probably creating a level of stress that a child who is sensitive to stress can pick up easily. It may be creating enough tension and stress for anyone to pick up. I think you should continue to be patient and do as much as you can to cut down on the things that stress him out more. If you can cut down on how often you guys leave the house that may really help a lot, this really helps my dd when she is reacting to stress. Getting out and doing something just for yourself may also help you to feel happier and more patient when dealing with the stress. I also think that you should continue to not let him see tantrums as things that work and continue to bring him to the psychologist. The psychologist may have some different ways of working with young kids that really do help them manage this level of anger and stress without exploding.

Are you and your dh discussing parenting issues in counseling? Trying to work out some consensus during counseling may help him to not feel like giving up on the family, it may also help because if he decides to go for divorce he will get some custody and do things his way.

[hempmama]

Oh geez mama. I'm sorry. I do think those are all things that my DD or DS (newly 5 and 3.75) could get angry over, but the frequency and intensity does sound really, really unusual. Was that a really bad day, or just a normal one? I don't know if that helps, but I do think you are dealing with a different situation than most of us. I hope you get some good answers tomorrow.

[Starflower]

It sounds to me like maybe it could be more than just spirited child issues, especially if dealing with your son's behavior is affecting your entire family. I hope you get some useful information from your son's psych eval. I would also suggest having him checked for Sensory Processing Disorders, Asbergers' & autism spectrum etc. to see if there is a diagnosable medical / neurological reason for his reactive behaviors. I have some friends who've had to deal with stuff like this and there are teams of people who work together to evaluate for many disorders depending upon where you are located. Also, check out the special needs forum or cross-post a link in Special Needs Parenting on MDC. They would have better suggestions than I about SPD and the like.

FWIW, I also liked "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" better than the "Spirited Child" books though I read the spirited books first. I thought KPPS described personality traits better; it also had a chapter specifically dealing with examples of cases that went beyond "spirited" behavior and into medical issues such as sensory integration disorders, ADHD, etc.

Hang in there, mama.

[funkymamajoy]

The only advice that I can give that hasn't already been said is: there is no way I can all that in one day with my spirited child. It would just be too much for him. I only do one errand a day. I might be able to sneak in 2 errands if at least one of them is fun for him. And I wouldn't done anything in the morning if I had to leave him with a sitter in the afternoon.

[Ligeia]

I just wanted to offer a hug and say that a lot of children in my family (including myself!) react this way because of a food intolerance, gluten. Maybe you could check into that if you have not already thought about it? My dd's results for her testing are not in yet until probably next week but she freaks out about stuff just as you described also. She is three. She throws a fit if there is not *enough* liquid in the cup, if it is not cut the way she wants, if I open the car door instead of letting her lock, unlock and open it herself every single time, etc. Anyway, I'm sorry you have to go through all this momma!

[Mary-Beth]

My child acted so much like yours is now. It really brings back memories.
The causes could be different but my dd responded to a gluten free/dairy free/ sugar free diet with a lot of one on one time where I did a lot of following her lead. I believe she is somewhere on the Autism spectrum. (she also stims) but the meltdowns were so hard. She is still on the diet.
Good luck. Keep looking and trying to find your solutions.