What else can I do?!

[Awaken]

Today we were having a lovely morning. Hanging out outside the food store after shopping, having a snack and playing. We were all so peaceful, and I was really enjoying it, as things have been tough lately. Then something very minor happens- my 3yo dropped the fingernail that just fell off my 6 yo's finger- my 6 yo is very attached to anything and everything, so this fingernail was super important for him to save for posterity. I understand this and looked and looked but there were weeds and gravel everywhere and we couldn't find it. I was totally understanding of how it was important to him and very sorry we couldn't find it, hugging him and being very sympathetic.

This sparked a huge, massive fit, and he ran into a busy street in front of the store. While trying to keep my 3 yo safe I had to run out and grab him and wait for the light to change so we could cross. We had walked so now had to walk about 15 mins home with this tantrum!

He said he was going to destroy everyone's gardens on the way home and hurt me as much as he could, even though I was repeatedly being kind to him. I was holding his hand to keep him from doing this, but he still ripped out people's plants that he could reach, and bent my fingers backwards, used a stick to beat his brother, and kept trying to run into the street. I had to hold his hand to keep him safe and keep him from destroying people's gardens, because I'm pregnant and can't physically pick him up and carry him home, esp. not while kicking and screaming!

I felt bad b/c it was hurting him, my holding his hand, because he was pulling on it so hard, making marks. I kept talking to him in a calm voice, saying I was trying to do all I could to help him and keep him safe, I couldn't let him ruin people's plants or hurt me or his brother, but calm talking did nothing and this kept up almost the whole walk home. Finally we were almost home and he was really hurting me, and I was really physically exhausted and fed up with this endless struggle and with being hurt, and got really angry and squeezed his arm and spoke meanly to him, and he finally stopped and was contrite. At that point I was just over it, and went home and laid down and cried.

I've really been struggling with anger issues and working hard to improve how I handle these difficult situations, especially considering I'm going to have to deal with this AND a baby soon. I'm doing a lot of reading and journaling and examining of my parenting and interactions to see where our difficulties lie. I just don't know what else I could have done in this situation to get us home safely and diffuse his anger. It seems like gentle talking and calmness and being understanding does nothing to scratch the surface and it takes me exploding for anything to sink in and to break him out of whatever's going on inside him. I don't want this to be our pattern

[swd12422]

Yikes. Hugs to you!

I only have one, but I know how you feel when things are escalating and you are doing all you can to be calm and nice and soothing and what you get in return is more anger and pain until you're pushed to your limit.

I have to say, I think you did great. You may feel you were mean or too harsh, but I kept reading and waiting to see how far he pushed you before you smacked him one. All I could think the entire post was, "spanking." And I don't spank.

I'll be interested to see what others suggest, as you were in a tough position of having a long walk home. I don't know what I would have done differently, except that I probably would've lost it long before you did! Sorry it was such a tough day. I hope it gets better.

[Bug-a-Boo's Mama]

You remained calm and in control a lot longer than I would have been able to. While I understand that you spoke and acted more harshly than you had wanted to, your behavior was in no way out of line or to harsh. He was hurting himself and you, plus his brother-he needed to stop and you did what you had to do.

[One_Girl]

I would not have looked so long for a fingernail. I think that it may help if you set up some boundaries regarding what is actually collectable or acceptable and not raise your children's hopes by doing something like searching for something like a fingernail. I find that when my dd knows my boundaries and expectations she reacts better to me empathizing with her and then guiding her through moving on. If I set up her hopes though and still can't work something out or find something she gets very inconsolable and hysteric. I do not think your reaction to his violence and destructiveness was wrong at all. I think that you should discuss your son's behavior and tell him it was unacceptable and that you expect that he will use his self control even when he is upset. I find that if I remind my dd that she will have to pay for things she destroys and ask her if she has the money for it or wants to make a different choice she will almost always choose a different choice (this works to help her rethink being destructive even when she is hysterical).

I also think that you should try not to encourage your child to collect things like this, especially if they are collection prone. There are some types of childhood disorders that include collecting everything and they make socializing very hard for children.

[Still_Learning]

Wow, I have been there and it really sounds like you handled it well for as long as possible.

I don't have any advice, just lots of "right there with ya!" My 5yo has been tetsing his limits constantly lately and I've been handling it terribly. I have a 3mo and I get frustrated so easily right now. Poor 5yo is picking up on all that and it's causing behavior issues for him. I need to get myself under control...

If you wanna pm me just to talk, please feel free

[Awaken]

thanks so much Actually, it really helps to know others would have felt or acted the same way, and I'm not totally out of line!

Normally, I would have blown up a lot sooner, and done something more physical, and it's only through the recent work I've been doing in being more aware of my reactions and how they may feed into my kids' negative behavior, that I was able to hold on as long as I did. I hate that sometimes it takes me yelling/screaming or using some kind of physical force to snap him out of his perseverating on something negative. I feel especially bad that his pulling at his arm left marks Better than being hit by a car though It feels so wrong and I don't want it to come to that- but hearing him out, patiently listening and reflecting his feelings, trying in vain to make things right, etc doesn't seem to do anything but perpetuate it.

Every time some kind of incident like this happens, I'm so emotionally bruised for a few days until I feel recovered, just in time for another incident to happen! I don't know if it's pregnancy or what, but then I get into this cycle of being completely despondent and defeated by my children's behavior and my reactions. I know in some sense they are behaving totally normal for their ages and we all go through ups and downs within a day, and good and not so good days. I just tend to focus on the negative and feel like I'm doing a terrible job as a parent if something like this happens- something else I'm working on! It's not all or nothing!

Oh- and as far as collecting things- he is somewhat of a "unique" individual, every little tiny scrap he finds is incredibly important to him, and he had injured his finger a few weeks ago so the old nail was just falling off with a new one growing underneath, so it was significant to him But you're right, then it sets up impossible expectations from him b/c we can't hang onto and keep track of all of it!

[Liquesce]

I realize I'm likely to get flamed for this, but if this is a recurrant kind of situation it sounds like your family might benefit from some family and/or individual therapy.

[Heavenly]

Child psychologist, and as fast as possible! That is not in any way, shape, or form a normal reaction. I cannot stress this enough. You need to get your son help as quickly as you can.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

I realize I'm likely to get flamed for this, but if this is a recurrant kind of situation it sounds like your family might benefit from some family and/or individual therapy.

i agree. this sounds like it is pretty extreme and maybe time to look into counseling.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

I realize I'm likely to get flamed for this, but if this is a recurrant kind of situation it sounds like your family might benefit from some family and/or individual therapy.

I agree. I don't know that counseling is the answer (it might be) but I do think your child needs to be evaluated. His reaction sounds pretty extreme; if he was 3 it would probably be unworrisome, but at 6, its pretty worrisome, and I seriously doubt its the result of parenting in case you were thinking of blaming yourself.

[nikkiethridge]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

I realize I'm likely to get flamed for this, but if this is a recurrant kind of situation it sounds like your family might benefit from some family and/or individual therapy.

I agree...That just doesn't sound in the realm of normal, healthy behavior to me.

[jtbuko]

My three and almost 6 year old and I do a lot of walking to stores together too. I was WIPED OUT just READING your post, and I am not even pregnant. It sounds like a crazy hard trip back from the store.

As a previous poster suggested trying to handle life's little disappointments (like the fingernail) with empathy, but without giving them too much attention and that seems to work well for my kids. But if it is not one thing it is another, and we have had some meltdowns away from home on foot over the years.

Maybe some kind of reset button (suddenly sitting down on the sidewalk for a group hug and riding out the tantrum) for everyone could have made the trip home easier?

I hope tomorrow is better!

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

I realize I'm likely to get flamed for this, but if this is a recurrant kind of situation it sounds like your family might benefit from some family and/or individual therapy.

I would have to second this. His reaction was not normal and he could have been seriously hurt when he ran into traffic.

[stik]

I've never considered myself GD by MDC standards, but in the days before I was a parent, I *looooved* _How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk_. It made so much sense to me, and all that empathy worked so well with the kids I was working with.

And then I had my own kids, and by the time my oldest dd was four, I realized that offering tons of empathy for her every little moment of sadness or disappointment was making everyone's life miserable, most especially hers. I felt terrible while I was learning how to do it, but keeping those moments of empathy under 10 seconds at a time for most issues has really helped her put things in perspective and respond appropriately. Some stuff is big - our cat died when she was five and we talked about it for weeks. But most stuff - running out of the favorite cereal, a hole in the sock, the presence of an herb on the chicken at dinner - doesn't deserve to be made big enough to ruin our day. Learning how to limit her emotional reaction to the actual magnitude of the circumstances was a revelation for her, and it's left her with significantly more free time to explore other interests. She's a much happier child now.

I think you handled the situation as best you could. Be gentle to yourself - the marks on his arm will fade quickly. I don't know if your ds needs therapy or not, but it may be helpful to let go of the idea that you will always empathize over every loss or disappointment.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

Child psychologist, and as fast as possible! That is not in any way, shape, or form a normal reaction. I cannot stress this enough. You need to get your son help as quickly as you can.

Agree. Your son is crying out for help. Please make sure he gets it.

[Seie]

Maybe you waited too long to get angry?
Anger IMO is not a "no no" for gentle parents. You as a parent need to maintain your personal boundaries in order for your child to respect them. Anger doesnt equal abuse. Its a natural reaction when someone oversteps your boundaries.

It would have been very bad if you had shouted "you are a mean evil boy for doing all that stuff, why can't you ever be good"
But to raise your voice - (before you actually ARE very angry and can't control it anymore) look him straight in the eye and firmly say "I see that you are angry but I will NOT have you hit me. It hurts. Stop it right away" that IMO is necessary enforcement of your personal boundaries. Being a gentle parent doesnt mean putting up with your child treating you bad.
I am not saying that doing this could have stopped the whole situation from unfolding, but it does sound to me like your son is unsure what is acceptable to you and what isn't?

[marybethorama]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I would not have looked so long for a fingernail. I think that it may help if you set up some boundaries regarding what is actually collectable or acceptable and not raise your children's hopes by doing something like searching for something like a fingernail. I find that when my dd knows my boundaries and expectations she reacts better to me empathizing with her and then guiding her through moving on. If I set up her hopes though and still can't work something out or find something she gets very inconsolable and hysteric.

Excellent point.

ETA I hit send too soon.

ITA with Heavenly also. You should take your son in for an evaluation ASAP.

[The4OfUs]

I wouldn't have been as patient as you for as long as you - the first time he pulled up someone else's plant or deliberately bent my fingers back, I would have been really upset and let him know it instead of continuing to calmly talking to him - I'm not talking about screaming or berating him, but a loud, firm, "HEY! NO WAY, this is NOT OK." and then found the nearest place on the sidewalk to sit down with both kids until he was able to control himself more.

I have a 5-1/2 year old who has some anxiety and perfection issues, and this sounds like an extreme version of something he might do when really upset about something - he would cry and scream and flail and try to run from me, but would stop short of the violence/destruction. He's seeing a counselor and has been for about 2 months now (since our big episode where he freaked out over some unfariness on a piece of play equipment and ran away from me at a park and wouldn't stop, and nearly went down a ditch that had a creek and a large, unfamiliar woods on the other side - he finally stopped when I flopped down on the ground and shrieked at him to stop, he could sense in my voice I was terrified and not angry), and I'll be honest - between the counseling and taking him off major sources of dairy, it's making a difference. He still freaks out, but not as often (every few weeks instead of every other day which is what it had been), and since talking with the counselor and learning more about anxiety and perfectionism, I know better ways to talk to him that don't make things worse.

If this is something that's happening a few times a week (you wrote that you take a couple days to decompress for it to happen all over again), I would definitely suggest some play therapy. I was kind of skeptical at first, but it has turned out to be a great thing for DS, very low key and fun for him, but it definitely has helped.

Even though you're calling your son unique, and I think it's important to not squash all of people's quirks and personality traits, it's really not healthy for him to have such strong attachments to items that this kind of reaction happens, at least at his age, anyway - this seems like an early form of hoarding, and is not healthy. I would really suggest getting him some help. :

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by Awaken

Oh- and as far as collecting things- he is somewhat of a "unique" individual, every little tiny scrap he finds is incredibly important to him, and he had injured his finger a few weeks ago so the old nail was just falling off with a new one growing underneath, so it was significant to him But you're right, then it sets up impossible expectations from him b/c we can't hang onto and keep track of all of it!

Addressing this...

It is common for parents of children with emotional challenges to accomodate WAY more than the average parent would accomodate. I know, because I was (still am?) that parent . My dd started counseling at 6.5 due to anxiety and rage issues, and it became clear in counseling just how much we'd been accomodating that we probably would not accomodate if not for dd's extreme reactions. From the outside, it is easy to say "he does that because you accomodate (coddle) him", but the truth is that the child's intensity and overreactions usually came way before the accomodations. The accomodations developed from the parents' attempts to survive and function with the child.

Getting down and searching the earth for a fingernail is outside the realm of what a typical parent would do. Having a 2-3 yo tantrum over a lost fingernail is outside the realm of what a emotionally healthy 6 yo would do. Raging and destructive behavior is a warning sign at 6.5 (btdt). It'll be ok, but it is time to get some outside help.

[Magella]

Originally Posted by sunnmama

Addressing this...

It is common for parents of children with emotional challenges to accomodate WAY more than the average parent would accomodate. I know, because I was (still am?) that parent . My dd started counseling at 6.5 due to anxiety and rage issues, and it became clear in counseling just how much we'd been accomodating that we probably would not accomodate if not for dd's extreme reactions. From the outside, it is easy to say "he does that because you accomodate (coddle) him", but the truth is that the child's intensity and overreactions usually came way before the accomodations. The accomodations developed from the parents' attempts to survive and function with the child.

Getting down and searching the earth for a fingernail is outside the realm of what a typical parent would do. Having a 2-3 yo tantrum over a lost fingernail is outside the realm of what a emotionally healthy 6 yo would do. Raging and destructive behavior is a warning sign at 6.5 (btdt). It'll be ok, but it is time to get some outside help.

: We had the same experience. Our oldest has emotional challenges, and found that we ended up accommodating a lot of things that others wouldn't (and oh yes, did we hear about it) just to survive and (sort of) function as a family. Therapy can help so much.