So confused.. vax information..

[bebebradford]

So I went to my doctor today for my 14 month old. I didn't let them vaccinate today because she was very sick this weekend. I really like her doc.. great man.. very intelligent. He is wonderful with kids, and I grew up with his sons. We started talking about vaxing and autism. He was telling me about studies where they had autism experts watch home videos of 12 month olds (who later had autism) before they had the obvious symptoms... btw they had NOT been vaccinated. They also had a control group as well. He said the experts picked out subtle clues to which children were autistic, and got every single one of them correct. He said there are cues at younger ages, but they do not become obvious until a child is old enough to talk and really interact with adults which is closer to 18 months(usually when autism shows itself). He said those children had autism before the vaccinations even happened, it's just not as obvious to the untrained eye.


SO UGH! I really trust him.. but I've read so much information.. lost here..

[caro113]

Vaccines are not the sole and only cause of Autism. The very fact that Autism affects 4 boys for every 1 girl proves that it is somehow sex linked.

In my opinion, and I don't believe I stand alone here, there is a gene for Autism that is present in some children (most likely on the X chromosome) and certain factors force that gene to switch on, almost like a light switch. Those factors include toxins found in household cleaners and chemical altered foods and yes, vaccines. But again, vaccines are not the only the sole and only cause of Autism.

If they experts saw video of children at the age of 12 months, then they most certainly would have been vaccinated, unless their parents had objected. But he said they weren't so let's go with that. Do we know if their mothers were vaccinated during pregnancy? How about drugs taken during labour and delivery? (Amazing how neurological disorders, like Autism, have been on the rise since more and more women are using drugs during labour and delivery.) Was there a family history of Autism? There are just too many unknowns.

If you are uncomfortable with continuing on your current vaccination schedule, then you have every right to delay it until you feel comfortable. It's okay. Do what you feel is best for you and your child.

But just to note, Autism is not the only reason most of don't vaccinate. In fact, for me, it's at the bottom of the list.

[Marnica]

I agree with above poster.....

To OP I would ask your doc to show you these studies. I would be really interested in reading them myself!

[lness]

That study got a lot of press when it came out ... done at UF in Gainesville by Philip Teitelbaum and his team. Google him with "autism study", study should come right up. VERY preliminary, in my opinion. I would say he's definitely on to something, and it would make a huge difference if we could accurately diagnose (and begin therapy) so much earlier. But they had a very small sample size - as they say, more research is needed. As far as I can tell, vax status was not a variable in this study - they were looking for diagnostic criteria, not causes.
Mostly it has to do with movement disorders - the autistic kids show patterns in rolling over, crawling, & falling that are clearly different (and always in the same way) from the non-autistic kids.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by lness

That study got a lot of press when it came out ... done at UF in Gainesville by Philip Teitelbaum and his team. Google him with "autism study", study should come right up. VERY preliminary, in my opinion. I would say he's definitely on to something, and it would make a huge difference if we could accurately diagnose (and begin therapy) so much earlier. But they had a very small sample size - as they say, more research is needed. As far as I can tell, vax status was not a variable in this study - they were looking for diagnostic criteria, not causes.
Mostly it has to do with movement disorders - the autistic kids show patterns in rolling over, crawling, & falling that are clearly different (and always in the same way) from the non-autistic kids.

Thanks here it is for anyone interested. Looks like this study was done about 10 years ago
http://www.pnas.org/content/95/23/13982.full.pdf+html

to the OP...Vaccination status is not even mentioned in this study. You may want to mention that fact to your doc so he doesn't give any other concerned parents any misinformation.
All that aside..very interesting study!

[ema-adama]

Another non vaxing mother who puts autism low on her list of reasons why not to vaccinate.

The studies sound interesting. Try and track them down and read them yourself

[bebebradford]

Thanks guys!!!! He said several studies, and one specifically were home videos of several 12 months olds at birthday parties.. Next time I'll see if he can give me more info on reading, and I'll share with you guys!

[bebebradford]

Whoops I missed a comment. lol..
He also said one group was of children who had parents that did not vaccinate them. I'm just trying to research all of this to see which vaccines I find are important, and ones that I might delay or not agree to !
Also, is it thermosil? I think that's what he said.. was a big concern to parents, but they stopped putting it in most vaccines in 2001, and earlier than that in Canada.. he also told me mercury is not used anymore.. it was a relative of mercury, and not dangerous.. Sorry.. I'll be more specific when I do some reading tonight and try to recall the EXACT names of these. Ugh.. so confusing.. so much conflicting info it stresses me... Any thoughts, research, etc is appreciated.

[bebebradford]

Originally Posted by caro113

Vaccines are not the sole and only cause of Autism. The very fact that Autism affects 4 boys for every 1 girl proves that it is somehow sex linked.

In my opinion, and I don't believe I stand alone here, there is a gene for Autism that is present in some children (most likely on the X chromosome) and certain factors force that gene to switch on, almost like a light switch. Those factors include toxins found in household cleaners and chemical altered foods and yes, vaccines. But again, vaccines are not the only the sole and only cause of Autism.

If they experts saw video of children at the age of 12 months, then they most certainly would have been vaccinated, unless their parents had objected. But he said they weren't so let's go with that. Do we know if their mothers were vaccinated during pregnancy? How about drugs taken during labour and delivery? (Amazing how neurological disorders, like Autism, have been on the rise since more and more women are using drugs during labour and delivery.) Was there a family history of Autism? There are just too many unknowns.

If you are uncomfortable with continuing on your current vaccination schedule, then you have every right to delay it until you feel comfortable. It's okay. Do what you feel is best for you and your child.

But just to note, Autism is not the only reason most of don't vaccinate. In fact, for me, it's at the bottom of the list.

If this isn't too personal.. could you tell me why you don't vaccinate?

[caro113]

There are some ingredients that have trace amounts of mercury in them. Just to make a note.

And to answer your question: I don't mind at all. The short of it is that I don't vaccinate because I don't believe in the safety nor the effectiveness of vaccines.

The long of it is as follows, if you care to read the thoughts of my scattered brain.

Our ancestors fought and died for the lifelong immunity our children no longer have. The immune system becomes stronger when it is naturally exposed to an illness and not through artificial means.

I know people, including myself, who were vaccinated and still contracted VPD.

My thoughts are all scattered so I apologize. My 11 mo is pulling every book from the book shelf and being extremely clingy.

Because of many choices we have made in raising our daughter, she has thrived. She's seven months younger than her cousin and she hits mile stones before or at the same time as her cousin. She's such a lively, happy child, smiling at everyone and making friends with whomever will stop and say hi to her. She's my organic vegan baby. I keep toxins away from her in every way I can. Her food is natural and (mostly) organic. She wears cloth diapers. Our home only has natural cleaning products. We do not go to WBV or hospitals to visit people. (I'll go alone, but I won't bring her into that atmosphere) Why would I inject her body with toxins?

I would rather she fight off the diseases naturally.

[bebebradford]

you give me a lot to think about.. I'm somewhere in the middle.. but still researching and reading. You're right about keeping your babe as toxin free as possible. I mean look at us! Cancer.. heart disease.. etc! We could live such longer healthier lives if we haven't polluted our air, bodies, waters, etc..

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by bebebradford

Whoops I missed a comment. lol..
He also said one group was of children who had parents that did not vaccinate them. I'm just trying to research all of this to see which vaccines I find are important, and ones that I might delay or not agree to !
Also, is it thermosil? I think that's what he said.. was a big concern to parents, but they stopped putting it in most vaccines in 2001, and earlier than that in Canada.. he also told me mercury is not used anymore.. it was a relative of mercury, and not dangerous.. Sorry.. I'll be more specific when I do some reading tonight and try to recall the EXACT names of these. Ugh.. so confusing.. so much conflicting info it stresses me... Any thoughts, research, etc is appreciated.

I am concerned that your doctor is not giving you all the information about thimerasol.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound (an organomercurial). Since the 1930s, it has been widely used as a preservative in a number of biological and drug products, including many vaccines, to help prevent potentially life threatening contamination with harmful microbes.

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine

Thimerasol is not a relative of mercury, it contains a type of mercury. This type of mercury is related to another type of mercury.

Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study

The real problem comes when you look for studies asking questions about the safety of injecting mercury, as opposed to ingesting (eating, drinking etc) it.
No one knows.

And there are no conclusive studies on thimerasol in vaccines being safe, in any amount.

[ammiga]

I've never been too great with the search option on this site, but there was a really good thread on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" board a couple of months ago listing reasons why people don't vax. Autism was rarely listed. Maybe you can search for it or ask someone on that board for help finding it?

[caro113]

Originally Posted by ammiga

I've never been too great with the search option on this site, but there was a really good thread on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" board a couple of months ago listing reasons why people don't vax. Autism was rarely listed. Maybe you can search for it or ask someone on that board for help finding it?

I don't think it exists anymore. I was part of it (or at least one of them) and someone started getting really upset and thought everyone was rude to her and a lot of posts were taken down and the thread itself was eventually shut down. I know I had a post deleted because I finally got annoyed and responded, which wasn't the right thing to do but oh well.

I have some websites that might help. I'll get them together for you

What I find interesting, is that before we had routine vaccinations, before we had routines drugs during labour and delivery, before we had medications for every little sniffle and cough, we hardly had any of the problems we have now. Nervous disorders and cancers and such hardly even existed. Our immune systems are so weak now.

Anyhow, I'll get that info for you.

[PinkinPA]

but they stopped putting it in most vaccines in 2001, and earlier than that in Canada

I think this is very misleading. Although 2001 is when thimersol was "taken out" it was told to peds who had vaccines in stock with thimerosal in them to use up remaining stock on hand. I believe I just read this in the Neil Miller book...I'll see if I can find it.

[caro113]

Alright I have a few websites for you.

http://homepage.mac.com/doctormark/h...ax_populi.html

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/08/every-child-by.html

http://newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james.htm

http://www.sunherb.com/truth_about_vaccines.htm

http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web2.html

HTH

[xmasbaby7]

After years of research, I don't vaccinate because even though some convince me to be very effective, I still believe that every vaccine injection reduces the effectiveness of one's immune system and leaves one more vulnerable to every bacterial and viral infection for which there is no vaccine.

I would not be able to see this in action were I unable to witness the superpowers of my unvaxed dc's immune system compared to mine and my DH's and her vaxed peers with similar healthy diets and exclusive breast-feeding histories.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by bebebradford

Thanks guys!!!! He said several studies, and one specifically were home videos of several 12 months olds at birthday parties.. Next time I'll see if he can give me more info on reading, and I'll share with you guys!

Have him produce these studies (or at least the names and the authors) and you can read them for yourself; doctors "say" a lot of things . He may have meant that they had not received the MMR vax, not that they were completely unvaxed; or he could be making assumptions; or he heard it in the doctors lounge...the only way to be sure is to read the studies yourself.