I think I'm failing parenthood.....

[Katwoman]

I've always tried to use GD. (Although I haven't always succeeded.) I truly believe that kids are people too. That they learn by example and by support. I want my kids to know they can talk to me about anything, receive unconditional love, and feel like their home is their foundation.

Well .... that seems to be working as long as my kids are allowed to have fun and "do what they want to do". (They are 3 and 5.)

If I ask them to do something it turns into this big production of them not cooperating. I give them choices, I link their behavior to their successes, but their are non-negotiable in the home. (Food allergies, they have to sleep, etc.) I've tried being playful, I've tried "working as a team", I've tried "being stern", nothing seems to really "work" for me. They don't want responsibility and they don't want to participate.

Here's an example of what I'm calling "responsibilities":

Take their supplements - DD1 was suffering from sever leg cramps and constipation, she now has calcium and magnesium for those things. She doesn't want to take them. I told her it was her choice to take them. She says she wants to take them. BUT now that she's been taking them long enough not to be suffering she doesn't want to take them. The natural consequence for this is leg cramps and constipation? That can't be okay.

If they put toys in my room and I ask them to take them back to their room, to simply pick them up and take them back to their room.

When my DH makes things fun, they all enjoy themselves but the kids do what he asks. If I try and be lighthearted and fun, they enjoy themselves, but nothing gets done.

I'm feeling really down today so things are a bit out of proportion, but it seems as if the stuff they know I can "make them do" they do - carry them to their room if they won't go. (This is done when the youngest is screaming at the top of her lungs and thrashing around. I always say, "you are going in your room until you want to use your big girl voice. This is only because it's too loud for the rest of the family. You can come out any time you want, but you must be ready to use your big girl voice." It's not supposed to be punitive as much as it's impossible to be around her when she's making "the noise.") They will do. But low an behold is there is one thing that I can't make them do, that's the stuff that the whole house suffers for. I realize this has become a power struggle and I try to avoid those. But the flip side of not "dying on this hill" is kids that do whatever they want and a mama that's stressed and feeling like a failure. Bleh.

My DH says I should think of something fun they can do after what I've asked them. That works sometimes, other times they're like "we don't care we didn't want to do that anyway."

My girlfriend's DD does what she says. (Although I don't want that kind of relationship with my kids that she has with hers. But hers DD does what she asks.)

I know what I don't want our relationship to be like, but I'm struggling with making it what I do want it to be like. ie, we - seriously - spend 10 times longer struggling over them doing something than it would take to do it. By the time it's done I'm exhausted and .......

I'm just blathering now. I know spanking doesn't work, but loving them unconditionally doesn't seem to be working either. (I realize these are two extremes and the answer lies in the middle, but darned if I can find it.)

I'm just sad today.

I guess I wish I would have known that having kids was just going to impose years of feeling inadequate.

[duchess_of_dork]

GD or no, if your kid is suffering from lack of supplements, then I don't think you can offer her the choice anymore.

[Katwoman]

I really appreciate you reading all the way through and responding. My problem is how do I make her do something she doesn't want to do? In this instance, she says she wants to take the supplements, but then she fiddle farts around for hours driving me crazy with I need more water, I have to do this I have to do that. If I say I'll put the supplements in your milk, she gets mad. If I tell her she's chosen not to take the supplements, she gets mad. How do you get them to do something they won't do?

I totally get what your saying about some things are not an option. I feel that way as well. But once something isn't an option, but you can't force pills down their throat, what do you do to back up what you're saying?

[woodchick]

How old is your DD who won't take her supplements?

I'd put them out with a glass of water and say, "Here are your supplements and some water. If you need something else to drink get it or ask. If you haven't taken them by dinner I will remind you and you can do it then." Of course you can substitute whatever variables you'd like...

Also, have you tried asking them for suggestions about how solve these issues. Is there a reason your DD makes 'the noise' that you're not aware of? Maybe there's a solution that she could help come up with.

I recently had a little breakthrough with my 3yo. She has never been one to help clean up her things...but the other day instead of saying "can you help me clean up?" I said, "What will you do to help clean up?" She offered a suggestion and we all got to work. (now my fingers are crossed that this will last a little while!)

Good luck, I don't think there's one magic suggestion that will fix everything. I've found it is all so fluid. Hopefully you'll find some good solutions here.

[jtbuko]

In my opinion any one who is looking critically at their parenting cannot be failing!

I have 3 and 5 yr olds too. We have good days and bad days. We shoot for gentle discipline, and try playful responses first when we can but have found that some structure makes our day run more smoothly and keeps everyone calmer and happier.

I have had days where I felt like a failure too, but we have had some breakthroughs lately and are in a good spot for the moment.

Every kid is different, but here are some things we've been doing:

We added a chart system this year, and they dig it. I pick a daily goal and they pick one, and each day for a month they try to do those two things. There is no reward for doing the things other than the great joy that comes from a check mark on the white board, and often we forget about the chart for days. This month we combined forces to come up with "listen by 5" (I wanted by 3, but they said they'd listen better if we used five) and it is amazing how many times they will choose to listen if I count to five. I try not to overuse it, but I call on it when I really need their cooperation, and they step up consistently.

Often they don't mean to ignore me, they just get distracted and need help breaking down a task and staying focused. For my five year old it means If I want to have him dressed and ready in 5 minutes he might need me right there with him. Instead of expecting him to do it himself and being disappointed I start off right there ready to help him stay focused and count off silly numbers for each part of a task.

And as far as toys in a room where they are not allowed or drive me crazy, we use an alarm system that they love. It sounds like a truck backing up, and they giggle and enforce it. "ALERT. TOY IN THE KITCHEN. BEEP. BEEP. BEEP." Sometimes I am the one who removes the toy, but even then it gets the task done and reinforces the routine.

The other thing I am trying to do is consistently expect the person who left their shoes out or did not flush their poop or left a toy on the stairs to come fix the situation. Short term it is easier to pick up or flush for them, but it does not solve the problem.

Good luck!

[Katwoman]

Originally Posted by woodchick

How old is your DD who won't take her supplements?

Also, have you tried asking them for suggestions about how solve these issues. Is there a reason your DD makes 'the noise' that you're not aware of? Maybe there's a solution that she could help come up with.

Thank you! She is 5. I read Love and Logic and I've been working really hard at not making their problem my problem. Meaning, if she wants to take her supplements, get everything ready at the table and then allowing her to have the time she needs to take the supplements. (Versus hovering and reminding her continually to take them.) Yesterday was seriously just one of those days. She wanted the supplements in her tummy, but didn't want to take them. I have asked her about this issue and a couple of others that we're struggling with. She doesn't have any real answers. I get things like she doesn't feel loved unless I let her walk in front of me at all times. Okay, so we've tried that. But it's not really connected to what's going on. So I'm not sure if she doesn't have an opinion on what's really going on, or she has an opinion and doesn't want to share it. My 3 yo makes that noise when she's frustrated. I remember my other DD having a terrible time with frustration, so I get that it will work itself out as she gets older and coping mechanisms start being doable. It's just loud until that point.

Originally Posted by jtbuko

I have had days where I felt like a failure too, but we have had some breakthroughs lately and are in a good spot for the moment.

We added a chart system this year, and they dig it.

Good luck!

It's nice to have other parents say, yup! It's hard sometimes but the hard is temporary. It's funny you mention the chart. Yesterday the mantra was "responsibility is hard and I don't want to do it." No amount of logic was helping. Last night I made a list of all the things she had to do in the morning to get ready for the day, with a line next to it. This morning as she did something, she checked it off. It was a hit! She got to practice her reading and go to see what was coming next. Also as she checked things off she was proud of herself. So we had responsibility without using the R word and the morning was much better! Yeah!


I appreciate everyone's response. It helps me think through the situation. The more I talk/type the situation through, the more synapses fire. Eventually everything will work out. I just didn't realize how challenging - to myself as a person - parenting would be. I love it, don't get me wrong. I just didn't realize .........

[jtbuko]

I totally hear you! Glad you had a better morning!

I got blasted today for writing down that we are in a smooth patch What was I thinking? Totally jinxed it! The minute I think I have it down those kids put me right back in my place. Good thing they are so cute!

[basje]

I'm sorry you're feeling like a failure! I think it's possible to love your children unconitionally AND have clear boundries with them. You respect your kids and they should respect your role in the family too. I don't mean for this to come off as harsh but it sounds like you've been pushed over by your kids. They are 3 & 5 years old, they can't make choices about their health yet, that's your job! Your daughter doesn't want to eat something, fine, talk about it, find out why... hear her and validate that you hear what she's saying. Then tell her why it's important that she does take it, watch her do it, then feed her lunch. There isn't really a choice here, your the mama, and it's what's best for her health. When she's ten she can make her own choices about leg cramps, she's five now!

Gentle parenting, I belive, should mean that you're in touch with your kids, rejecting violence, and working together as a family. This doesn't mean that you're children should rule their own agenda's. They need to learn to pick up after themselves, but not teaching that habbit you're not doing your job as a parent to teach them the skills they need to become functional adults. This doesn't mean that your house becomes a military camp, it means that there are some rules, and if you don't follow the rules is something usually unpleasant that happens. Gentle, loving parenting still requires you to have healthy boundries and teach how to be functional, happy adults one day.

[Katwoman]

Originally Posted by jtbuko

The minute I think I have it down those kids put me right back in my place. Good thing they are so cute!

It's so nice to hear someone else say that! (I'm glad mine are cute too.)

Originally Posted by basje

I don't mean for this to come off as harsh but it sounds like you've been pushed over by your kids.

Gentle parenting, I belive, should mean that you're in touch with your kids, rejecting violence, and working together as a family. This doesn't mean that you're children should rule their own agenda's.

Gentle, loving parenting still requires you to have healthy boundries and teach how to be functional, happy adults one day.

You are not being harsh. You have the situation down correctly. I firmly believe I am working toward "Gentle, loving parenting still requires you to have healthy boundries and teach how to be functional, happy adults one day." but somewhere along the lines I've ended up "it sounds like you've been pushed over by your kids." I'm not sure how it happened, and I don't expect it to be "fixed" overnight. But I definitely need to get it on back on track.

So we did the list again today. It wasn't as enthusiastically received as it was the first time. But we used it. It's cut down on the distraction of her trying to fight about "responsibility/rules suck and I don't want to do it". We just keep moving forward with the things on the list.

The other thing I'm trying is, I think I talk to much. Too much validating feelings, too much explaining myself, too much reminding, too much "practically everything really". We then never get anything done because we end up going round and round. Then everyone is frustrated. So today I heard her out about an issue, told her I understood, explained my point of view - when she tried to say I was wrong, I told her that we needed to agree to disagree on the issue. When she said she didn't want to disagree, she wanted it her way, I told her that she could have it her way in her head. But that we weren't going to talk about it anymore because we both saw it differently. It worked! She started talking about something else.

So one day at a time.

I always have this problem though, I never felt like my Mother listened to me when I was growing up. So I have this quest for my kids to know I will listen to them. We don't have to agree or even like each other sometimes. But I will always listen. But I'm not doing it in the best way for my DD1. I wish I had a button in my head that would say, okay, time to stop talking and move on. Perhaps a continuing ed class or some sort.

[jtbuko]

When I was in that super rough place about a year ago I read The Secret to Parenting by Anthony Wolf and both DH and I found it helpful.

[Katwoman]

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it out.

[DianeMarie]

It's funny that you say you talk to much---too much negotiating, to much validating, too much explaining---and sometimes, to set limits and boundaries kids need to learn about not always getting what they want, no always being right and the fact that they have to live with an authority figure!! No matter what they do in life--go to school, go to college, get a job---they will have to abide by an authority figure, and they won't be able to do whatever they want whenever they want!!

As far as them leaving toys in your room and not listening when you tell them to clean them up, I would say "Okay, whatever toys are still left in my bedroom at bedtime/lunchtime/dinnertime/ are going to be out of commission for X amount of time (a day, 2 days, etc.) and until they can clean them up when asked, they lose the privilege of playing with them. This is not acknowledging their feelings or disrespecting them, but actually TEACHING them that if they don't take care of their things, then their things will go away for a little while.

I have seen it often that children do not listen to a parent that stays home with them as well as they listen to a parent who works during the day and is not with them all the time. I think they have more time to "test out" and figure out what they can mess around with and get away with and howmuch you'll tolerate. Instead of wasting time "negotiating" with them, TELL them what they need to do, and THAT'S IT. If it isn't done, then they will lose privileges (and the privileges can be adjusted to the "severity of the crime") and that you are not going to debate them about it. This is what YOU want done, and that's it. Going through life, they will not get their way all the time, and not everybody is going to agree with them all the time!!

As far as your daughter taking her supplements---WHY doesn't she want to take them? Are they hard to swallow? Do they taste bad when they are in her mouth? In my opinion, that is something that is NOT negotiable---she MUST take them, so she can either take them herself or you are going to put them in her food----because, ultimately, aren't you the one who has to deal with the repercussions of muscle aches and constipation and her complaining and crying about it?? It is true that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Is the thing with her taking her supplements about "power and control"? IS that something she feels that she has power and control over? You need to explain to her that if she wants the supplements in her tummy, that the only way they are going to get there is through her mouth!! Is she afraid to take them? You need to find out why she is delaying taking them and doesn't want to take them. And then, try to think like she does. Or, if you take vitamins or supplements, tell her that you can take them together----if she sees you taking them, she will view it as "normal" and not use it as a power/control thing. Remind her about how she feels when she doesn't take the supplements, and ask her if that is how she wants to feel again----and that taking the supplements is the reason that she does not have muscle aches and constipation. (I am in medicine, and BELIEVE ME, not complying with taking medications is not something reserved for 5-year olds----lots of people will end up in the emergency room or in their doctor's office with dangerously high blood pressure/dangerously high blood sugar/severe heartburn, and it is because they stopped taking their medication because they felt better!! They didn't put 2 and 2 together that the reason they felt better was because they were taking the medication!!!) Maybe now would be a good time to teach her about compliance and adherence to a "routine" to maintain how good she feels. The fact that she doesn't want you to put it in her food leads me to believe that this is a power/control thing, and not really about the supplements themselves.

I have always believed in setting limits and boundaries and having the consequence fit the crime. You don't have to spank or punish or anything----but, if they don't listen, then there must be a consequence for that to set and maintain limits to make it clear to them that even though you care about their feelings, YOU ARE THE BOSS!! What you say goes!!

I guess I always tended to look at things with a "long-term" intervention----going through life, they will not be able to do whatever they want whenever they want, and they will have to live with rules and laws and regulations, so why not start that in the home when they are young? When they are 25 years old, and got pulled over for speeding, and got mad because they were pulled over and punched the cop in the face, do you think that trying to "explain how they felt" to the judge is going to let them go? No it won't.

I don't believe in spanking, and I do believe in listening to your kids----to a certain point!! You can listen, and validate---but when it turns into a negotiation and you have to give them a 30-minute explanation over picking their toys up or something so menial, then that is something where setting limits comes in. You are the person who should have the ultimate control here, not them----but I get the idea that you already know this. Maybe you feel that being firm and setting those limits/boundaries is not letting them be themselves in some way. But, I do think that have "consequences" for certain things teaches them to not only clean up their things, but how to take care of their things if they want continued "pleasure" derive from these things, and this continues into adulthood---if they have a car, and don't change the oil or maintain the engine, the car is going to break down and they won't be able to use it anymore. If they have a car and go speeding everywhere, and get a million tickets, then the car will be impounded and they will have to pay lots of $$$ in tickets---and then they may lose the privilege of having a car altogether because they won't be able to get insurance-----and they are not going to be able to explain their "feelings" or "negotiate" with the cops or insurance company when their car gets taken away.

I think you are completely aware of your own situation, I really do. You want to be understanding to your children, but you also want to maintain some sort of "control" in your own household. The "agreeing to disagree" with your daughter was great!!! Be firm, don't use as many words and use "actions" instead----your children should not have to be "rewarded" for picking up their toys, but there should be a consequence for NOT picking them up. My thing would be "Any toys left in my bedroom at bedtime become MY TOYS!!" I am sure they don't want that to happen one bit!!

[Katwoman]

So I'm mulling over what you said about control. I think I'm struggling with the concept and how to implement it. I've never had to have control over my children. We've lived a very peaceful, respectful existence up until now. Even when they were two, I could say "don't run into the road because cars can't see you and you might get hurt" and that would be enough. A simple explanation of the situation and we were working together on things. As DD1 has gotten older I've tried to give her a bit more freedom to be her own person. I don't want her to feel obligated to say "how high do I have to jump because you said jump?" It never occurred to me to say no to an adult, even when I knew what they were doing was wrong. I want them to trust their inner voice. (Anyway, I digress.) But in giving her freedom, I've done it in such a way that it appears as if I'll just lie down and take whatever their willing to dish out. Which I think is my struggle, I'm working so hard to be respectful to them and used to them being respectful to me. I get caught up in the disrespectful part. Which I understand is part of testing boundaries. But when I'm in the heat of the moment, the disrespect is very frustrating to me.

And because natural consequences has always worked - up until now - I'm having trouble with thinking up consequences for disobedient behavior. I'm also caught up in "why does their have to be a consequence to EVERYTHING! can't they just enjoy being part of a loving family?" Does that happen? If so, how old? (I'm serious here. I never - until I was a teenager and could ride the bus - disobeyed my Mom. I was totally convinced she would kill me and hide my body and nobody would miss me.) When do children because respectful because you love them and are respectful too? Please don't tell me 30. That's a loooong way off!