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DD's first 'consequence' lesson at school today.... - Page 3

post #41 of 44
I bet if you took a survey of adults, none of them would say they "choose to get jobs" A job is a necessity for people in order to support their families. In this economy and otherwise, some can ill afford to quit or be fired from their job. Therefore they learn to get along and to do what is needed or requested of them.

I noticed that you mentioned that your boss was respectful. That is exactly my point. This is how we should all treat one another. I imagine he may have even said please when he made the request.

Don't misunderstand me, I think children should enjoy childhood, and certainly not all the same rules apply to them as do adults. However, no one should infringe on the rights of another, and this is what people who have not learned consequences often do. The student who calls the teacher a bitch takes time and attention away from other students. The child who does not clean their space leaves a mess for the next child (possibly your child). The person who speeds endangers the life of other drivers.

What type of penalty do you propose we impose on a person who speeds? it must be something that "hits them where it hurts" Most people understand the pocketbook. It is not cruel and unusual punishment. I don't know of another penalty that could apply to all drivers.

I suppose we will have to "agree to disagree" on this issue.
post #42 of 44
Just wanted to share -

My kids like to work, we all work in our home. We clean together, we learn together, we prepare our food together, we clear together, we sleep together, we all treat each other with gentle words and ways.
The very first thing my children learn is how to take care of themselves, then how to care for the environment around them, next they care for each other and our family pets. We do not assign chores and we have no sibling rivalry or fighting that I have seen in other families.
The kids take great pride & intrinsic satisfaction in their work at home and how they care for each other builds their self -esteem and their compassion for each other, I believe that not allowing them to learn this is shutting a door that is very hard to open later on. That to me is very sad, reading about a child not allowed to work disturbs me..
The look on a toddlers face when they are sweeping is wonderfully intense, a 5 yr old with a dustbuster is mastering his world, a 9 yr old that cares for the plants, carefully wiping each leave and misting them is learning about the cycle of life and how we all depend on each other. They enjoy making a place for things and doing repeptitve tasks is calming, they have self control over their world at home. To my kids, work = a form of play. Honestly.

And in my not so vast parenting experience - I have learned that children learn respect in a variety of ways and that continually changes as they age/mature. Even now at 40+ I feel I have learned a deeper level of respect then I had in my 20s and 30s.
There are many many more ways for children to learn respect then just by being respected by adults.

Part of the reason I will no longer teach in ps is the lack of respect I received from my students and the parents. It is also a large part of why we homeschool, so that I can find peers for my children that are not out of control, if we are in a hs group with children and adults that do not follow rules and are not respectful (which happens as much as the ps crowd) we can leave to find a dif group- or ask them to leave.

Maggie05 - your post is insightful

post #43 of 44
What would really hurt unlawful drivers is a loss of driving privileges. Of course, they would have to track it somehow, but they could just take your license and put a boot on your car. That would do a little. Then jail if caught driving.

Some adults can choose whether or not they work outside the home, as opposed to being self-employed, a SAHM, a student, living with their parents, etc. Many people have the luxury of choosing the kind of workplace environment in which they will work.

Workplaces do have consequences for not following the rules, but as I said before, the consequences are not overly harsh or arbitrary. They are also explained to the employee during orientation. The employee can then decide, "You know, I don't think I can work in an office where you aren't allowed to chew tobacco indoors" unlike the public (or private) school student who can't say "Well, nice to meet you, but I wouldn't do well with your rules, so no thanks."

I don't know if my real issue is with PS - my issue is with adults who have too much power over children and who impose consequences that don't really make sense.
post #44 of 44
I think another way of looking at things is that there are some people (children and grown ups alike), based on their temperament, who do better with internal motivators (altruism, moral code, love, helpfulness). There are others who do better with external motivators (fear of getting in trouble, knowing a reward will come for doing it, etc.) In my home we have one of each. Before I became a parent, I never would have thought I would have to use external motivation for a child because it went against everything I (thought I) believed. I believed that children should be taught to do things or follow the rules because it was the right thing to do and it helped everyone out.

Well, like Vanna's Mom, in my emerging and not so vast parenting experience I am now seeing the impact of temperament and sensory issues on a child's 'willingness' to do what's right. People are all different, and I have ds who 'needs' an external motivation to do what's right......meanwhile I believe he is slowly 'internalizing' the concepts so that hopefully someday he will do it "because." I have struggled long and hard with this as a very attachment focused parent, that just couldn't believe that my relationship with my ds (which is great) was not enough to motivate him to do what is right, because of his other issues.

That said, I think the schools are dealing with many different types of learners and many different temperaments. Ideally, they would figure out how each child learns and how each child responds to consequences (internal or external, natural or imposed). To say that one size fits all doesn't work. If we say that external imposed consequences are NEVER right, we are not serving a portion of children who DO respond only to that (for better or worse). Often in schools the staff have to act reflexively and do the best they can. Do they sometimes wish that they had been more creative and used natural consequences? I think they do, and friends and members here who are teachers tell me this is true. We are surely all human and trying our best.
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